WildFrequency

yip, thats almost true. The person concerned may possible become a pilot-instructor at NTW. He was in the sim this past week with new recruits, I guess still under guidance? There is a great irony in this "pilots" actual job at NTW, he is not a fulltime first officer, but an office bearer...better not say anymore though. Check the Designation Examiner list, maybe you will recognise the name.

Deskjocky

err...from what Ive heard, yes. although I was informed that the office portion was on top of the flying not the otherway round...typical Vern- gets 2 jobs out of one poor sod- no extra cash. Then again he could have always said no...

SIC

L *****4bar classic!
Since he pitched up for his initial NTW interview last year wearing those 4 bars I am not surprised that it has become his nickname!

Guess we'll be calling him Capt 4bar when he gets his inevitable upgrade - despite all the hooha about seniority and time on type and other BS they were going on not long ago.

Deskjocky

Her ladyship strikes again

FMC forever

- CREW fly their *** off because management are not doing their job and looking after their employees. They are pushed to max duty times and if they get to max FDP times and advise rosters to get out standby crew, their old saying is that there are no crew and captain can extend time with 3 hours.

- Rosters changes on daily basis and off days are taken away. No proper off days anymore and crew are even phoned on off days to help out.

- Rosters changes sign on times and duty times to fit into the legal scope.

- Big joke - Salary increases - only R10 per SNT day and R35.00 per sector allowance for co and R80.00 per sector allowance for captains.

- Jump seat policy implemented - 5 days notice to be given for approval - seems the rules are getting more and more.

- VB main problem - get rid of her.

- New guys wanting to join Nationwide - think twice

FuelFlow

It seems nothing has changed in the Seven years since I left. Keep sending out your C.V`s chaps. GOOD LUCK!!!

Champagne Lover

Guys and girls. We are going to have to very assertively get our act together, that is for our sakes, AND for the sakes of the NEW LOW-TIME joining pilots!!!!!!
Remember, the demons who abuse us, simply because we love what we do, RELY on us cutting each others throats to "Get that job"!!!
If we can demonstrate, that the prospective airline pilot stands to gain HUGELY by playing ball too, then we have a good start!
The powers that rule, FULLY realise, that If I refuse to succumb to the "BIG STICK", then I can be immediately be replaced with a "WANNABE" !! His 'Inexperience', means Jack to the boss!! A trifle higher insurance premium yes,maybe......but a MUCH cheaper pilot! WOW, now I can really make big bucks!! I don't have to pay the pilots!
If we DO collectively start and set up a prevailing adherance to: "NO, I will NOT sign ANY bond!" YOU, want to make MONEY from this "Business", pilots are expensive!! It's part of your costs!!!!!!!!
"NO, I will NOT accept that as my basic wage, pay that to your junior clerks or lawyers or any other who will accept it."
Changing aeroplane type? Sign ANOTHER BOND????????????? Forget it!!!!!!!!
YOU need the aeroplane to fly, TRAIN me!!!!!
I will very likely have to change aeroplanes shortly to get command. Bond?? Forget it!! I rather stay where I am and resign and go sell/pack fish! NO more big stick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You want to bully people, go get a little 10 year old whipping boy!
If we can convince the prospective recruit, to NOT accept this post now, he is busy sabotaging HIS/HER future carreer by doing so, then we are getting there, slowly. We need a system where he or she can access and see what is happening in a given company. If I apply for this position now, they don't HAVE to train the pilot who is currently employed there, who SHOULD be undergoing training for that post.
I remember well, the briefings from the Airline Pilots Associations -WORLDWIDE, advising all pilots with honour, to not apply at a given airline because the said company was busy screwing blood out of the pilots. It CAN work!
Lets start making a ball, and get it to bloody move, albeit uphill!!!!

UpperSideBand

For all the people who've been screwed salary-wise, there is some glimmer of hope. Rumour has it that SAA will be recruiting 40 new pilots in the first 6 months of next year. Companies like Nationwide who don't pay their crews market related salaries, will be the first to start losing pilots. Maybe then they'll realise that a a/c can't fly without pilots. Nationwide, if you're reading this, tell me what's more expensive, paying crew what their worth, or grounded aircraft? The crew that do pick-up the slack when the other okes have left, good on you for being such a loyal employee, but you're just shooting yourself in the foot...

I always say: If you want loyalty, get a dog. I work for cash.

Q4NVS

Unfortunately, rumour also has it that most of these 40 positions will be smacked into the laps of SAA Cadets currently flying at SAX and Link, as well as all Females they can get their hands on...

Most SAA Cadets eligible to join the Mainline Carrier have over the past three weeks completed their Sim Checks as well as "Screening" Interviews i.e. All they now need, is a starting date.

Wrt to the NTW situation:

CLover, I think that in a perfect world your suggestion would work, but hey, the world aint perfect and nor are the humans that populate it.

It is fact that the guys/girls at NTW have a RAW deal, but so do most guys/girls in General Aviation.

Have you ever flown a Charter for a reputable company, only to wait 3+ months before you get paid a minimum fee (after Tax), that is if they pay you at all...? Or, have to fly for an operator that insists on paying you less than a Waiter earns in 3 hours, because you need the hours..

My point is, that for these people, unfortunately the conditions at NTW will still be an improvement on what they are used to - therefore the continuous supply of newbies.

The only real solution here is for the guys/girls at NTW to get their ducks in a row and stand TOGETHER. Uncle Vern will always pay them what he can "afford", as it is his business and his pocket money - Unless when paying the crew what he can afford becomes a lesser evil when compared to the dough he is losing because of not paying them what they are worth.

It relates to the old adage:
How do you eat an Elephant - Bite by Bite.

Put a plan together and start chipping away...

Good Luck!

PissCat

... AND THEN SOME!
Rumours have it that crew had to fly to Cpt, drive to GRJ to operate back and all this could've been avoided if there was any communication at ops on Fri since lunch time! What next? If their 767 goes technical in LGW would they have to fly them to Egypt, give them car rental and make them drive to London? What a joke!

The problem with the salary "increases" started by making a big hoo ha about this incredible increase that the flight crew will be receiving instead of keeping quiet with a nice little R10 increase surprise.
I can't wait to fly for an Airline, coz flying for the circus doesn't cut it anymore.

Alternative

If Mainline hires Cadets.....Will spaces at feeders be available to newbies or are their more cadets on the way to fill those spaces up!!!!

Morphieus

If employees at NTW want their working conditions and pay to change then it is up to them to do something about it. Not the ones about to be employed. You will never have anyone in general aviation turning down an airline job in the hope that their singular action will hopefully have an effect on the working conditions of the ones already employed there, or even their own conditions in the future. It just won’t happen. Why? Well most incoming crew offered a job in the airlines have been working contracts in African s*#t holes for the last couple of years and all they want is a stable job/income back at home with their families. The fact that it’s on a 737 with good hours doesn't hurt either.Dealing with the problems at NTW is definitely a lot better than dealing with african ATC and general incompetence on a daily basis. Never mind the fact that you live away from home for 2 months at a time and basically giving up your whole life! I would personally take NTW's issues any day over contract flying. Even for a lower pay. At least you home every night with the wife.The fact is that’s why there’s such a thing as labour law. The right for employees to form unions and strike if necessary. That’s not something that most pilots want to do but if the working conditions are really not acceptable then that’s what needs to be done. It’s the only real bargaining power that employees have and it’s also protected by the law. Pilots in NTW need to stick together and make change happen, preferably without sinking the airline in the process! I’m not advocating that every time there is a little grievance everybody must now stop working, just that NTW’s problems can only be solved internally with people sticking to their guns.

Shrike200

Nationwide's employees are sticking together actually, but many here are missing some of the undercurrents:

Yes, contract pilots could be happy to come and work for Nationwide. It still however, takes two to three months or so to train an F/O, and with Nationwide's 'last minute, reactive-style' planning, even that can be a problem. -500 F/O's are also working their butts off. But this isn't the big issue.

It's Captains, or the critical lack thereof. And they don't grow on trees. You can't just recruit a direct entry Captain from somewhere on contract. You see, Captains at Nwide come in two flavours: The retired skygod flavour, and the 'original' Nwide Captain variant, who moved up through the ranks. Now, both varieties can only tolerate so much BS, which Nwide is now dishing out in spades. The skygods won't put up with it, because they don't need to stomach this rubbish, and the 'originals' who have already had to swallow years of abuse and are now gatvol, can now move on because of the movement in the job market.

Neither group will do much in the way of serious complaining or union action - they'll simply vote with their feet, which is precisely what's happening. They'll just pack up and go.

The HR people can wring their hands and make useless gestures ('climate survey' - whatever! If you can't see what they problems are, you must be blind!) to try and get them to stay, but they'll have had enough by now. Serious, genuine, and IMMEDIATE effort would be required to persuade them to stay now. The puny salary gesture isn't nearly enough. They will still be paying at the absolute bottom end of the local industry. More will be leaving shortly. The 'old hands' at Nationwide have seen all these promises before anyway. They know management won't remove their heads from their sphincters. And therefore they are going, and will continue to do so without too much shouting. Why attempt to change the unchangeable when you can just leave?

And therefore, this isn't just a case of pilots not sticking together etc etc. It's a problem that's been long in the making caused by a management culture at Nationwide, and is now coming to the fore because of the possibilities for moving on in the local/overseas job market. The newer pilots at Nationwide have the opportunity to try and lever some changes in there. But they're going to need an APFSDS round to try and penetrate some of the thick skulls on high there.

putt for dough

Guys you are the masters of your own destinies!!
Get your heads out of the sand and start sticking up
for eachother.
From what I've been reading, when is enough, enough?

You are the masters of your own destinies........

When will you all stop this bull??

Shrike200

Perhaps I should rephrase what I said above, maybe I could be clearer. Nobody is shafting anybody else amongst the crew. I believe people are sticking up for one another, or at least trying to in difficult circumstances. It's the crew that makes the place at the moment, despite management's best efforts (to divide and conquer). On the union front, they're still finding their legs, and are working along the lines of trying to convince the company that the union is a good thing, something that allows crew and management to come to mutually acceptable solutions, rather than what many here seem to advocate - an outright headbutt fest. Saying 'you guys should stick together, and stick it to them!' just displays ignorance. It's easy to say when it's not your job and livelihood on the line, and also easy to say when you've stepped into a company that already has a strong union with plenty of support and an established rapport with management, and merely tagged along with everybody else. Try setting all that up yourself in a hostile environment, whilst holding everybody together - or perhaps maybe you have, and can offer some advice thats actually useful, other than 'Stuff them'?

hla727

To all at NTW, I take my hat off to you!
I have worked here (NTW) for 5 years + and I haven't seen such chaos in all my time here.

I don't know how you guys do it on the 737's.......

The roster issue is appaulling, I don't know how it got to this ........

I believe there are going to be more resignations and then it will probably be getting worse (if that is possible).

I think the situation now will tend to "make" or "brake" the airline.......so lets hope for our sakes, it "makes" NTW.

Lets hope management has a "big" plan and things get better!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PissCat

"You see, Captains at Nwide come in two flavours: The retired skygod flavour, and the 'original' Nwide Captain variant, who moved up through the ranks. Now, both varieties can only tolerate so much BS, which Nwide is now dishing out in spades"

Well said! Enough is enough! Even so VB has upped the requirements to the point where you need a space shuttle rating to get command even if you've been there for yonks. The only way to get command is to either be an ex Skygod or L4Bar.Besides, Morpheus, we can only move on to another airline and really reap the benefits of it once the BOND is settled.That's a thread on it's own let me assure you! By all means, leave your contract flying to come clock hrs on a real jet & be at home with the wife every night? My A$$! you don't even have a roster for the next day. can't plan anything not even a day in advance. FYI, we do stick together, but one can only bump heads with the powers that be so many times before you want to give up and go fly for a fruit salad!

Shrike200

Ding, Dong, the witch is dead!

Anti-Skid Inop

The infamous LADY has fallen from her perch. After driving Nationwide into the ground she has eventually been eradicated. It might however just be too late, all her damage has already been done!!!

One thing is for sure, she has left a huge amount of work for the next Director of Flight Ops.

south coast

Anit-skid, what did she do that has been so bad.

I am no longer in SA, but am interested to hear the story.