Bush Pilot vs Airline Pilot
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Not every single pilot in the world wants to be in the airlines. That is the misconception that lies at the heart of the head-butting between the two camps. Airline pilots believe that every single contract pilot, want to be like them...wrong. I flew contracts because I felt that was the most challenging flying I could lay my hands on. The time came when I was over contract flying, just because I cant live the lifestyle ANYMORE, so do you think I applied to the airlines?? Not a chance. I rather took a job in another sector of aviation, because I have no interest in becomming a systems manager, I love flying for the hands on experience. If I could do the kind of flying that I did on contract for the last few years, AT hOME, I would never do anything else, and I would forever giggle at the airline girls flying their fat-assed busses into space shuttle runways.
Have a look at certain accidents in the world where, had the pilot diverted from the SOPS, the aircraft and many lives could have been saved. Swissair 111 comes to mind...
I prefer a pilot who can think on his feet, not one whos thoughts are dictated by what other people have decided, over a discussion in an office. The aviation environment is too flexible and fluid to have had certain decisions made beforehand.
I do however agree with most posts in that the attitude is what makes or breaks a driver.
Have a look at certain accidents in the world where, had the pilot diverted from the SOPS, the aircraft and many lives could have been saved. Swissair 111 comes to mind...
I prefer a pilot who can think on his feet, not one whos thoughts are dictated by what other people have decided, over a discussion in an office. The aviation environment is too flexible and fluid to have had certain decisions made beforehand.
I do however agree with most posts in that the attitude is what makes or breaks a driver.
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I.R.PIRATE
If you have not been an airline pilot, how do you know the answer? Yes there are SOP's to be followed. However take crosswind landing limits. Heavy jets have limits far higher than any singles are licenced for. I look back at landing in extreme weather conditions (Scotland in Winter storms) in light twins and remember the luxury of the large runways. Even the largest of runways become limiting and requiring precision and challenging flying when on weather limits with a heavy jet, and as a Captain I get to make many decisions still.
From bush pilot (Rhodie cpl)to heavy captain I have done it, and when I look back feel lucky to have survive some of the stupid things I did when younger. Remember the statement 'There are old pilots and bold pilots but no old bold pilots'. There are many different flying career available. Some people want to progress to the big ships, other don't. Their choice, but why knock it? I know where I would rather be!
If you have not been an airline pilot, how do you know the answer? Yes there are SOP's to be followed. However take crosswind landing limits. Heavy jets have limits far higher than any singles are licenced for. I look back at landing in extreme weather conditions (Scotland in Winter storms) in light twins and remember the luxury of the large runways. Even the largest of runways become limiting and requiring precision and challenging flying when on weather limits with a heavy jet, and as a Captain I get to make many decisions still.
From bush pilot (Rhodie cpl)to heavy captain I have done it, and when I look back feel lucky to have survive some of the stupid things I did when younger. Remember the statement 'There are old pilots and bold pilots but no old bold pilots'. There are many different flying career available. Some people want to progress to the big ships, other don't. Their choice, but why knock it? I know where I would rather be!
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Au contraire mon ami - have done a few thousand hours of airline flying. Hate it.
ps: Rememer too that as South African pilots we have to start in SA, and airline flying in this country is piss.
ps: Rememer too that as South African pilots we have to start in SA, and airline flying in this country is piss.
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Did a few hundred hours of airline stuff and have to say it was a pleasure, even though it was based in another country. The nicest thing was having a schedule and SOPS so nothing came as a surprise such as destination changes en route, or an HF call telling me to go back to where I've just been two hours ago, because some bozo couldn't be bothered to be on time...
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I.R.PIRATE
I had a friend who left the highlands and islands to fly B757's on holiday charter. He too hated it, left and has enjoyed a career still flying light turbo's. I had no idea from you original post you had any airline experience.
As I said there are many different ways to spend ones life in aviation. I know a little about aviation in SA, but am in no position to post comments on any problems faced. I was lucky to move from Zim when I did, although there was a period when I met my mates in London, who having just flown in on the B707 while I was flying a SD360 out of Glasgow, that I thought I had made a dreadful mistake. Oh to have a crystal ball when making career decisions!
Going back to the original thread though, I find pilots who have seen other fields of aviation, before entereing into airline flying do on average have better handling skills. Cadets from my company though do have sound training and background knowledge compared to 'self improvers' such as myself. However, it doesn't matter how much money you have, you can buy a licence but you cannot buy experience. Did a Delhi in the monsoon, and the crew was myself (bushpilot), one cadet co-pilot, with useful current sop and book skills, and one new joined co-pilot, local guy from Delhi, ex B737 captain who had done all his flying in India and had plenty of local knowledge. A good crosscut of experience and pleasant and profession working team.
As for challenging flying, winter is approaching here in the northern hemisphere. Do I fancy the challenge of Chicago in a winter storm, or maybe that 48 hour slip on the beach in Barbados. I have done been frightened in aircraft, so maybe I just might leave that Chicago for someone junior who might need the experience
I had a friend who left the highlands and islands to fly B757's on holiday charter. He too hated it, left and has enjoyed a career still flying light turbo's. I had no idea from you original post you had any airline experience.
As I said there are many different ways to spend ones life in aviation. I know a little about aviation in SA, but am in no position to post comments on any problems faced. I was lucky to move from Zim when I did, although there was a period when I met my mates in London, who having just flown in on the B707 while I was flying a SD360 out of Glasgow, that I thought I had made a dreadful mistake. Oh to have a crystal ball when making career decisions!
Going back to the original thread though, I find pilots who have seen other fields of aviation, before entereing into airline flying do on average have better handling skills. Cadets from my company though do have sound training and background knowledge compared to 'self improvers' such as myself. However, it doesn't matter how much money you have, you can buy a licence but you cannot buy experience. Did a Delhi in the monsoon, and the crew was myself (bushpilot), one cadet co-pilot, with useful current sop and book skills, and one new joined co-pilot, local guy from Delhi, ex B737 captain who had done all his flying in India and had plenty of local knowledge. A good crosscut of experience and pleasant and profession working team.
As for challenging flying, winter is approaching here in the northern hemisphere. Do I fancy the challenge of Chicago in a winter storm, or maybe that 48 hour slip on the beach in Barbados. I have done been frightened in aircraft, so maybe I just might leave that Chicago for someone junior who might need the experience
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Yeah right..!
Was just wondering how many of your thousands of hours flying Airlines in SA was spent flying a Dash 8 @ MLW of 19 051 kg's into Richards Bay during torrential rains, with cross winds between 25 and 30 Knots...
Here is the best part, because it is a Non-Precision approach and the weather is on the deck, you are sitting on your hands watching a 250hr SAA Cadet do the Approach so that you can do the Landing (hopefully).
It is piss - I agree!
(That's why they love it and would not change it for the world)
Btw, it also beats doing "attempted" low level Barrel Rolls in a Beech 1900.
Was just wondering how many of your thousands of hours flying Airlines in SA was spent flying a Dash 8 @ MLW of 19 051 kg's into Richards Bay during torrential rains, with cross winds between 25 and 30 Knots...
Here is the best part, because it is a Non-Precision approach and the weather is on the deck, you are sitting on your hands watching a 250hr SAA Cadet do the Approach so that you can do the Landing (hopefully).
It is piss - I agree!
(That's why they love it and would not change it for the world)
Btw, it also beats doing "attempted" low level Barrel Rolls in a Beech 1900.
Last edited by Q4NVS; 11th Oct 2006 at 17:10.
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I prefer an FO who knows precisely where he is in three-dimentional space and who can operate the FMS and autopilot well. During a monitored non-precision approach (statistically the most dangerous phase of flight in ANY discipline) and as mentioned by Q4NVS, I don't give a continental about my FO's handling skills. I will be doing the landing and he has to deliver me at a position from where I can make a safe landing using the automation available.
I also don't particularly depend on his decisionmaking ability. SOP's are written in part so that a junior FO has a rule that he can follow in calling for a go-around under certain unsafe conditions. He does not need to make a decision. The chief pilot made it for him. By the time he becomes a captain, he will have seen hundreds, if not thousands, of these approaches, and he will have developed the necessary skills.
As an aside. After listening to ex-"bush-pilots" over a beer. I am starting to wonder about decision making ability. Overweight take-offs, flights without adequate diversions, operating with u/s equipment, etc...... It speaks of really good decision making skills!
Finally. Bad pilots have no monopoly on accidents. It happens to the best of us - literally. Murphy does not care about your background.
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Nugs, you've pretty much described why I want to get out of bush flying and into airlines. Making a decision and then managing the constant insidious pressure to overstep the mark is just becoming too much. Getting old and scared now.....
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I have to agree that it is all about the attitude and skill of the individual!
There are many pilots with chips on their shoulders thinking that being a 'Bush Pilot' makes them a good hands-on operator..... and the same for an Airline pilot who thinks they're better at the other stuff.....
However, I have known a few people that have not quite hacked the bush flying thing ie. going off runways etc, (purely due to a lack of co-ordination and confidence - basically should never have been issued a Comm, but that's a whole different issue) who have settled very well in an airline environment in the right-hand seat?
But then bush flying isn't for everyone!
Swamprat are you bored mate?
There are many pilots with chips on their shoulders thinking that being a 'Bush Pilot' makes them a good hands-on operator..... and the same for an Airline pilot who thinks they're better at the other stuff.....
However, I have known a few people that have not quite hacked the bush flying thing ie. going off runways etc, (purely due to a lack of co-ordination and confidence - basically should never have been issued a Comm, but that's a whole different issue) who have settled very well in an airline environment in the right-hand seat?
But then bush flying isn't for everyone!
Swamprat are you bored mate?
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Have to agree with nugpot on what he said.
The other thing I would say, having done contract flying for almost 5 years, I think it is only a means to an end, like most things in life, a stepping stone to something better hopefully.
It would also seem to me, as I think someone has already said, what the initial question is asking is that of comparing apples and pairs.
I think the standard of training in airline type flying is of a much higher standard than 'bush' flying, the standard of maintenance is also higher, the use of SOP's is better and regulations, limitations and aircraft performance are better adhered to, to.
It might well be more boring, but I know which one I prefer.
The other thing I would say, having done contract flying for almost 5 years, I think it is only a means to an end, like most things in life, a stepping stone to something better hopefully.
It would also seem to me, as I think someone has already said, what the initial question is asking is that of comparing apples and pairs.
I think the standard of training in airline type flying is of a much higher standard than 'bush' flying, the standard of maintenance is also higher, the use of SOP's is better and regulations, limitations and aircraft performance are better adhered to, to.
It might well be more boring, but I know which one I prefer.
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Point one. There is more to flying, airline or bush, than the merits of yarpieland.
point 2 I have 2000 instructor ga, 8000 thousand bush , 5000 airline, and have experienced all that has been discussed here.
I'm a good operator (its on me file) due to the overall experience, bush and airline.Neither has primacy.I can do both becuase I've done both. It doesnt make me special or elitist.I behave appropiately in either world but temper my behaviour with experience and lessons learned from both worlds.
A wrong decision in a b200 will hurt a few people. a wrong decision in a 777 will be a catastrophe. As i said before , different disciplines. A surgeon is not a gp and vice versa, but they are all doctors.
Any polarised opinions indicate a general inexperince and local to the discipline currently employed in.
PS Im a good operator because I have learned to wind my neck in and do what is safe not what satisfies my ego . Not always easy.
point 2 I have 2000 instructor ga, 8000 thousand bush , 5000 airline, and have experienced all that has been discussed here.
I'm a good operator (its on me file) due to the overall experience, bush and airline.Neither has primacy.I can do both becuase I've done both. It doesnt make me special or elitist.I behave appropiately in either world but temper my behaviour with experience and lessons learned from both worlds.
A wrong decision in a b200 will hurt a few people. a wrong decision in a 777 will be a catastrophe. As i said before , different disciplines. A surgeon is not a gp and vice versa, but they are all doctors.
Any polarised opinions indicate a general inexperince and local to the discipline currently employed in.
PS Im a good operator because I have learned to wind my neck in and do what is safe not what satisfies my ego . Not always easy.
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Easy.......keep pushing the stick after the houses have already got very big......!!
I agree with Farty......(how did you get that name anyway??.......NO on second thoughts I dont really want to know).......actually while this whole thread is good for a bit of a lark its really is all a bit of nonsence.......it wouldnt be a good idea to rely on (only) bush experience in trying to fly an aluminium overcast and it would probably be an equally bad idea to go fly out in the bush with only airline experience.......and really at the end of the day we are all still learning!!??
I agree with Farty......(how did you get that name anyway??.......NO on second thoughts I dont really want to know).......actually while this whole thread is good for a bit of a lark its really is all a bit of nonsence.......it wouldnt be a good idea to rely on (only) bush experience in trying to fly an aluminium overcast and it would probably be an equally bad idea to go fly out in the bush with only airline experience.......and really at the end of the day we are all still learning!!??
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no matter what and where you fly >> the day you stop learning is the day you start dying....
.....unless you are an airline pilot >> who knows everything anyway...................................................... .and walks on water.
.....unless you are an airline pilot >> who knows everything anyway...................................................... .and walks on water.
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Are you not the 1 with Thousands of Hours Airline Experience?
Your posts have really deteriorated to NOTHING - Personally I am now not sure whether your are not just another 11 year old hacking into his dad's Laptop - Sorry
