Air Serv International - Threads Merged
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CloudQueen
Maybe you'd like to give us all an example of them operating in an 'unsafe manor' ?
The 1900 that was lost was not operated by ASI and the crew were not ASI crew... as yet we don't know if or why they might have been misled as to their position... if you know maybe you could tell me.
It may be that pilots on occasion HAVE taken unnecessary risks as pilots will from time to time whatever company they are flying for... it would in no way be condoned or forgiven by ASI. In my time with them there was NEVER an attempt to browbeat/pursuade or even encourage me to fly when conditions dictated staying on the ground... on a number of occasions I would have been more than happy to undertake a flight that was called off by the country director due to weather... we never were allowed to fly at night in Congo and I remember only one occasion where our days flying had us returning to Kabul after dark..
My experience of a 'reputable' South African based 135 operation was quite different and on one occsasion had me sitting in Juba getting calls from company and UN personnel, one after the other all the way to the top to pursuade me to undertake a flight that would have been positively downright dangerous... no, I didn't take it.
ASI has never had a culture of poor safety, they've suffered some unfortunate events, as have most companies operating in those areas but ultimately, once the a/c is in the air it's up to the crew how things are handled. If you care to think of how many flights have been made by ASI since the early '80s in countries where serious weather, conditions on the ground, the war zone environments, and poor infrastructure are all out to get you I would say that you can only praise the company and its crews for a putting up a blo*dy good effort.
If you're the sort of pilot who thinks it's only safe to fly in a radar controlled environment with an ILS waiting for you at the destination or under perfect VFR conditions to a long well made runway then you have no notion of what flying in the third world is all about.
So... back to my original Q... give us an example of how they operate in an 'Unsafe manor' ...
Word on the street is they are looking to merge wiyh someone (SkyWorld) who already holds a 135 certificate, thus allowing them to continue bidding for gov grants/contracts and continue operating in thier unsafe manor!
The 1900 that was lost was not operated by ASI and the crew were not ASI crew... as yet we don't know if or why they might have been misled as to their position... if you know maybe you could tell me.
It may be that pilots on occasion HAVE taken unnecessary risks as pilots will from time to time whatever company they are flying for... it would in no way be condoned or forgiven by ASI. In my time with them there was NEVER an attempt to browbeat/pursuade or even encourage me to fly when conditions dictated staying on the ground... on a number of occasions I would have been more than happy to undertake a flight that was called off by the country director due to weather... we never were allowed to fly at night in Congo and I remember only one occasion where our days flying had us returning to Kabul after dark..
My experience of a 'reputable' South African based 135 operation was quite different and on one occsasion had me sitting in Juba getting calls from company and UN personnel, one after the other all the way to the top to pursuade me to undertake a flight that would have been positively downright dangerous... no, I didn't take it.
ASI has never had a culture of poor safety, they've suffered some unfortunate events, as have most companies operating in those areas but ultimately, once the a/c is in the air it's up to the crew how things are handled. If you care to think of how many flights have been made by ASI since the early '80s in countries where serious weather, conditions on the ground, the war zone environments, and poor infrastructure are all out to get you I would say that you can only praise the company and its crews for a putting up a blo*dy good effort.
If you're the sort of pilot who thinks it's only safe to fly in a radar controlled environment with an ILS waiting for you at the destination or under perfect VFR conditions to a long well made runway then you have no notion of what flying in the third world is all about.
So... back to my original Q... give us an example of how they operate in an 'Unsafe manor' ...
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Do you seriously think it's safe to operate in Africa as a 91 operation with no FAA oversite or regulation? 
I in no way implied that the 1900 crash was the fault of the crew.
I fully understand that this aircraft was owned, insured, crewed and maintained by Cemair. - Which by the way... is a POLITICAL, LEGAL, CYA BS statement that places the responsibility on Cemair. Unfortunatly that is the way it is On Paper!
However, Cemair has a horrible reputation and as several SA newspapers quote "LOTS of blood on their hands"
If AirServ or anyone else is in a position to have to lease such services it is their duty and responsibility to hire an organization that exceeds the third world standards.
The 1900 did sport the ASI logo and all partners/passengers thought they were flying on an AirServ plane. Again, I am not saying it is AirServs fault but it is their moral responsibility!!
Yes, some of us flying in such areas have on occasion taken unnecessary risks. I do not recall stating that AirServ would browbeat/pursuade or encourage anyone to fly in bad conditions.
I agree with you 100% that "once the a/c is in the air it's up to the crew how things are handled" AirServ has been fortunate enough to have employeed true professional pilots that go above and beyond and without a doubt deserve praise! And yes, based on the number of successful flights over the years I would agree that AirServ has put up a good effort. But, is good enough? Considering the areas and conditions of the operation that you stated "are out to get you" one would think they would operate at the very least to a 135 standard. To date Air Servs FOM is dated 2002 and is not specific to the A/C nor areas of operation. In addition, I suppose they have been so lucky in the past that they neglected to have an Emergency Response Plan in place!
I am experienced in third world flying, and know the conditions very well, but personally I would prefer to fly planes for an organization that uses more than just the MEL to maintain their A/C. The third world standard has been proven to be unsuccesful and dangerous which is why NGOs contract companies such as AirServ. The expectation is air transportaion at a higher safer level...which I suppose is why they have pulled their funding and refuse to fly with AirServ.
I in no way implied that the 1900 crash was the fault of the crew.
I fully understand that this aircraft was owned, insured, crewed and maintained by Cemair. - Which by the way... is a POLITICAL, LEGAL, CYA BS statement that places the responsibility on Cemair. Unfortunatly that is the way it is On Paper!
However, Cemair has a horrible reputation and as several SA newspapers quote "LOTS of blood on their hands"
If AirServ or anyone else is in a position to have to lease such services it is their duty and responsibility to hire an organization that exceeds the third world standards.
The 1900 did sport the ASI logo and all partners/passengers thought they were flying on an AirServ plane. Again, I am not saying it is AirServs fault but it is their moral responsibility!!
Yes, some of us flying in such areas have on occasion taken unnecessary risks. I do not recall stating that AirServ would browbeat/pursuade or encourage anyone to fly in bad conditions.
I agree with you 100% that "once the a/c is in the air it's up to the crew how things are handled" AirServ has been fortunate enough to have employeed true professional pilots that go above and beyond and without a doubt deserve praise! And yes, based on the number of successful flights over the years I would agree that AirServ has put up a good effort. But, is good enough? Considering the areas and conditions of the operation that you stated "are out to get you" one would think they would operate at the very least to a 135 standard. To date Air Servs FOM is dated 2002 and is not specific to the A/C nor areas of operation. In addition, I suppose they have been so lucky in the past that they neglected to have an Emergency Response Plan in place!
I am experienced in third world flying, and know the conditions very well, but personally I would prefer to fly planes for an organization that uses more than just the MEL to maintain their A/C. The third world standard has been proven to be unsuccesful and dangerous which is why NGOs contract companies such as AirServ. The expectation is air transportaion at a higher safer level...which I suppose is why they have pulled their funding and refuse to fly with AirServ.
Last edited by CloudQueen; 10th Feb 2009 at 21:03.
Originally Posted by CloudQueen
Do you seriously think it's safe to operate in Africa as a 91 operation with no FAA oversite or regulation?
An N registration for an aircraft is, in effect, a flag of convenience - no different than a Panamanian or Liberian registration for a ship.
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not the complete story
What the poster has missed about the reason for his termination is as follows:
1)The poster was in fact meant to be on-call for medevac purposes while climbing the "active" volcano and by doing the climb they were out of contact and not available.
2) The poster had previous instances of unreliability including leaving the airport to watch a football game on television at a local pub when he was meant to be on standby for security evacuation.
3) Taking his current girlfriend on a revenue flight without permission.
There is always another side to every story though I do agree that having the Chief Pilot sneakily fire him and then go back and blame another manager for it was underhanded.
On another note badmouthing individuals on a site like this by name is not professional or strictly legal if you cannot backup your claims.
1)The poster was in fact meant to be on-call for medevac purposes while climbing the "active" volcano and by doing the climb they were out of contact and not available.
2) The poster had previous instances of unreliability including leaving the airport to watch a football game on television at a local pub when he was meant to be on standby for security evacuation.
3) Taking his current girlfriend on a revenue flight without permission.
There is always another side to every story though I do agree that having the Chief Pilot sneakily fire him and then go back and blame another manager for it was underhanded.
On another note badmouthing individuals on a site like this by name is not professional or strictly legal if you cannot backup your claims.
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reply from: the poster
Hey, I am the one who told the story about Air Serv firing me for climbing a volcano in Goma.
About the climb:
The director knew where I was at all times and I had a phone. The climb was a team project and the reason why other Air Serv folks did not join are that we had to get up early and that most of them where recovering from a previous evening of partying...
Anyway. If you are going to fire someone for something then you fire them on the spot and not 3 weeks later.
If you are a good manager/director you say: " if you climb this mountain you are fired" beforehand since you know that there is a plan to climb. But the director/manager and her assistant - 2 fat blondes with a "know it all" attitude - could not put 2+2 together as far as work and teamwork went. Their biggest obsession had to do with their looks, loosing weight and being seen as "cool" at local NGO parties.
Now, i consider myself a very reliable individual and - unlike Air Serv - I do not abandon folks in the field whether I like them or not. Anyone who has known me for a while would say the same.
The soccer game on TV bs is complete nonsense.
As to the girlfriend riding on a revenue flight, she was an NGO, not my girlfriend, and since she was not listed on the passenger's manifest then it would be "yet another f*&^-up" from the office ladies. At anyrate I did not leave her in the field and everyone was brought back safely to the base.
She is now a Physician working abroad helping others.
We do agree though that the way Air Serv abandon me in the field was terribly under-handed and it says a lot about the uneven character of the director/manager.
.
Any more questions?
Yours truly,
About the climb:
The director knew where I was at all times and I had a phone. The climb was a team project and the reason why other Air Serv folks did not join are that we had to get up early and that most of them where recovering from a previous evening of partying...
Anyway. If you are going to fire someone for something then you fire them on the spot and not 3 weeks later.
If you are a good manager/director you say: " if you climb this mountain you are fired" beforehand since you know that there is a plan to climb. But the director/manager and her assistant - 2 fat blondes with a "know it all" attitude - could not put 2+2 together as far as work and teamwork went. Their biggest obsession had to do with their looks, loosing weight and being seen as "cool" at local NGO parties.
Now, i consider myself a very reliable individual and - unlike Air Serv - I do not abandon folks in the field whether I like them or not. Anyone who has known me for a while would say the same.
The soccer game on TV bs is complete nonsense.
As to the girlfriend riding on a revenue flight, she was an NGO, not my girlfriend, and since she was not listed on the passenger's manifest then it would be "yet another f*&^-up" from the office ladies. At anyrate I did not leave her in the field and everyone was brought back safely to the base.
She is now a Physician working abroad helping others.
We do agree though that the way Air Serv abandon me in the field was terribly under-handed and it says a lot about the uneven character of the director/manager.
.
Any more questions?
Yours truly,
Last edited by aime; 4th Nov 2013 at 01:22.
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Yep.....
Two Fat Blondes will get ya every time. One is bad enough, but two working in unison…..hell....you don’t stand a chance. Might as well just lay down and crap your pants.
Last edited by Spadhampton; 6th May 2010 at 18:53.
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Answer to your original question:
What makes (made) Air Serv fly in unsafe conditions?
Answers that apply to flying out of Goma in the DRC:
No hazmat training.
Mutliple aircrafts would fly IFR in the clouds without precisely knowing where traffic was.
ATC was of little help, mostly a distraction. (Ok, that's not Airserv's fault perhaps)
Weather info is/was provided to pilots by untrained, unknowledgeable ground staff. Case in point: On a flight from Goma to Shabunda, I was advised while enroute that weather at destination was "perfect" (whatever that means?!) only to find myself flying through thunderstorms and to discover Shabunda in low clouds/patchy fog/mist etc.
Flight dispatchers sometime would have us load AC to max gross in Goma and would have us land in Bukabu (a 15 minute flight) over max landing weight (Applies to C208).
Flight dispatchers had mostly no aviation knowledge and kept arguing with pilots.
Fuel consumption was underestimated by flight dispatchers and left little room to maneuver around weather.
Best of all... Airserv conducted lengthy interviews with its future pilots in Warenton to ensure the quality of its pilots yet they subcontracted some flights to outsiders for which no background was readily available.
Another case in point: On a flight from Goma to Entebbe via Kigali I was a front passenger in a C210 owned by AirServ and flown that day by a MAAF pilot who had been asked to replace a sick AirServ pilot (actually the Air Serv Chief Pilot who lived in Entebbe). We took off from rwy 18 in Goma in marginal VFR and quickly were in the clouds. The pilot was flying straight into high elevation terrain towards Kigali so I told him to change course immediately (to fly South and to climb over lake Kivu before turning E). The pilot thanked me for helping and admitted that he had not looked forward to the flight because he was unfamiliar with the area since he was usually flying in Uganda. Later the pilot flew the approach in Kigali below glideslope and below the VASI (ok, it was marginal VFR but it shows bad piloting). I did not say anything that time. Arriving in Entebbe he landed the aircraft ahead of a displaced threshold line... The other occupants not being pilots did not notice anything but I thought that this "AirServ flight" could have been a total nightmare and was glad that I was occupying a front seat. I told the story of the flight to management in Goma later on but no one seemed concerned about it!
So what sort of company asks a stranger to go fly their aircraft with passengers into an area that they feel uncomfortable with?
Answers that apply to flying out of Goma in the DRC:
No hazmat training.
Mutliple aircrafts would fly IFR in the clouds without precisely knowing where traffic was.
ATC was of little help, mostly a distraction. (Ok, that's not Airserv's fault perhaps)
Weather info is/was provided to pilots by untrained, unknowledgeable ground staff. Case in point: On a flight from Goma to Shabunda, I was advised while enroute that weather at destination was "perfect" (whatever that means?!) only to find myself flying through thunderstorms and to discover Shabunda in low clouds/patchy fog/mist etc.
Flight dispatchers sometime would have us load AC to max gross in Goma and would have us land in Bukabu (a 15 minute flight) over max landing weight (Applies to C208).
Flight dispatchers had mostly no aviation knowledge and kept arguing with pilots.
Fuel consumption was underestimated by flight dispatchers and left little room to maneuver around weather.
Best of all... Airserv conducted lengthy interviews with its future pilots in Warenton to ensure the quality of its pilots yet they subcontracted some flights to outsiders for which no background was readily available.
Another case in point: On a flight from Goma to Entebbe via Kigali I was a front passenger in a C210 owned by AirServ and flown that day by a MAAF pilot who had been asked to replace a sick AirServ pilot (actually the Air Serv Chief Pilot who lived in Entebbe). We took off from rwy 18 in Goma in marginal VFR and quickly were in the clouds. The pilot was flying straight into high elevation terrain towards Kigali so I told him to change course immediately (to fly South and to climb over lake Kivu before turning E). The pilot thanked me for helping and admitted that he had not looked forward to the flight because he was unfamiliar with the area since he was usually flying in Uganda. Later the pilot flew the approach in Kigali below glideslope and below the VASI (ok, it was marginal VFR but it shows bad piloting). I did not say anything that time. Arriving in Entebbe he landed the aircraft ahead of a displaced threshold line... The other occupants not being pilots did not notice anything but I thought that this "AirServ flight" could have been a total nightmare and was glad that I was occupying a front seat. I told the story of the flight to management in Goma later on but no one seemed concerned about it!
So what sort of company asks a stranger to go fly their aircraft with passengers into an area that they feel uncomfortable with?
Last edited by aime; 4th Nov 2013 at 01:31. Reason: Spell Check
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Mutliple aircrafts would fly IFR in the clouds without precisely knowing where traffic was.
ATC was of little help, mostly a distraction. (Ok, that's not Airserv's fault perhaps)
Weather info is/was provided to pilots by untrained, unknowledgeable ground staff. Case in point: On a flight from Goma to Shabunda, I was advised while enroute that weather at destination was "perfect" (whatever that means?!) only to find myself flying through thunderstorms and to discover Shabunda in low clouds/patchy fog/mist etc.
ATC was of little help, mostly a distraction. (Ok, that's not Airserv's fault perhaps)
Weather info is/was provided to pilots by untrained, unknowledgeable ground staff. Case in point: On a flight from Goma to Shabunda, I was advised while enroute that weather at destination was "perfect" (whatever that means?!) only to find myself flying through thunderstorms and to discover Shabunda in low clouds/patchy fog/mist etc.
Flight dispatchers sometime would have us load AC to max gross in Goma and would have us land in Bukabu (a 15 minute flight) over max landing weight (Applies to C208).
As for the temp pilot.. I don't know the circumstances but I'm very aware that from the day we commence ppl training we're forced to accept that to a large extent we are our own policeman... if this guy was unhappy about his ability to remain safe then he should have not have volunteered.
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ASI Jobs
Just to change the subject a bit... does anyone who currently works for ASI have any current inside information on hiring? I'm flying a turboprop for an airline on the east coast but have been checking the ASI website for two years waiting for information to be posted about pilot openings. No luck so far. To be honest this type of flying fits right in line with some of my future career goals later in life, and it sounds much more interesting than flying 121 in the US.
Feel free to shoot me a message or reply to this post if you have any information, tips or guidance.
Feel free to shoot me a message or reply to this post if you have any information, tips or guidance.
As of the fall of 2010, it appeared that the flight operations end of AirServ had pretty much wound down - they were operating one Caravan in Goma under sort of an ad-hoc wet-lease arrangement with a Goma based Congolese operator - I was not aware of any other AirServ aircraft that were being operated in Africa at that time.
Their MRO in Entebbe, which is a different business entirely, seemed to be carrying on as normal, serving a number of external clients in various ways (providing hangar space, offices, etc.).
I don't have any information that is more current than fall of 2010.
Their MRO in Entebbe, which is a different business entirely, seemed to be carrying on as normal, serving a number of external clients in various ways (providing hangar space, offices, etc.).
I don't have any information that is more current than fall of 2010.
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AirServ exist ?
this thread has been very quiet. Is AirServ still in existence? Their web site is up but not very current. What is the current status ot their organization?
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Air Serv International
On May 18,2011 they advertised on climbto350.com, looking for Van drivers in Uganda,South Sudan, Chad area.
I applied, but never had a response.
Someone else did get a response maybe ??
Take care guys !
I applied, but never had a response.
Someone else did get a response maybe ??
Take care guys !
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From my experience the mighty CAA is exactly the same even when it comes to blatant and serial rule breaking (in Nairobi - hardly a harsh or remote location). You'd think the Flt Ops Inspectors would leap on a nice expenses paid investigative visit to the sun, but no, it was too far away and comfortably (ie deniably) out of sight, thank you.
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Air Serv fleet
Is now 1 U.S. registered Twin Otter, N899AS. 17 other A/C previously registered to Air Serv are gone, exported to South Africa, Uganda, other export or just deregistered and gone. They may have a fleet registered under other national flags.
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The old Pt 91 operation is pretty much defunct, however, AirServ Ltd based in Entebbe is still very much an active force (Pt 135 ops).. good facilities/maintenance hangar and a thriving operation. Anyone wishing to operate in that part of the world would do well to look to them for support.
I don't have contact details but it shouldn't be too hard to look them up.
I don't have contact details but it shouldn't be too hard to look them up.