Afriviation

If you grow up in a proper home with adequate meals, sanitation and was provided with a good education you have a good chance of being a succesful enterpreneur. Tell me of 1 pale enterpreneur who grew up in orange farm or soweto or Winnie Mandela squatter camp. Well there are a countless non pales who are now millionaires and billionaires.

The point is if as many non pales had equal opportunities as the pales had yes, the notion of hiring the best person for the job would be appropriate.
but every South African who knows anything about our history will tell you that even now in 2006 there's are more non pales living in those very conditions as there were before liberation.

I'm not a politician I'm an aviator, I would like to see more non pale aviators in this country so I can hear more of these indigenous accents on the ATS frequencies and talk about some mutual interest in overseas layovers.

JG1

'he won't make it until he proves us otherwise'
__________________________________________

The blacks brought this on themselves. If it weren't for affirmative action, then black pilots would not be viewed as 'tokens', and 'only got the job cos he's black' etc. One of my best mates is a Kenyan, theres no doubt he is one of the finest flyers I have ever met...and he got in on merit, and no-one ever doubted that even once, not once.

Again, refer to your MP. Subject this time : Affirmative Action

JG1

And why do we doubt the Zim instructors???

Because Zim is in a shambles!!! They can't even fill my aircraft with jet fuel.
How could these instructors possibly be as current as possible?

And why should we want some 'not as current as possible' instructors instructing our trainees??

When they will have to fly some aircraft we have just paid R20 BILLION for??

Get a grip. Its not because they are black, its because they are SUSPECT because they come from a SUSPECT airforce in a country run by a SUSPECT government.

Afri, you obviously have a deep seated feeling of being slighted by whites...

Deskjocky

Nope JG, Afri is very well balanced...he has a chip on both shoulders

beechbum

As I mentioned to you Afri,brace yourself......don't presume and make profound statements thinking that every pale pilot out there had millionaire fathers supporting them through their aviation careers. Many of us,myself included toiled long and hard to achieve the position where we are now.
Not once did I expect anything to be delivered on a plate. But like so many affirmative appointees,they DEMAND and want everything for nothing because they have been so hard done by.Work for it and show everyone that you deserve it.
I think Afri you have a lot of thinking to do and realise that Rome wasn't built in a day.......it will happen.......but also.... very slowly

JG1

Afriviation, yes, it does look like you are working for SAA.

'I would like to see more non pale aviators in this country so I can hear more of these indigenous accents on the ATS frequencies and talk about some mutual interest in overseas layovers.'

Whats wrong with talking about such things with your white colleagues? Are we not good enough? Are you one of these blacks who keeps to his own kind, despite, ignored attempts by them to include you?? Are you, Afriviation, one of those whom you despise so much - a RACIST?

So you get into SAA, the easy way, and now are not satified with that, no, now you have to moan (probably after not being rostered according to your demands) about the Ops staff not being black too??

Afriviation, maturity lies well before you...

JetWSH

Afriviation -

Im not even on the continent anymore but the reverberations from this thread has shaken the ground under my feet. It is because of BULLSH!T policies favouring "non pales" in SA, that myself and others have to go look for jobs abroad. Luckily we've found positions much better than SAA and it's a pleasure knowing that the employment policies practised in SA won't rape us out here.

I dont want to understand why you feel the way you do or debate a topic which a non-pale will never fathom anyway. BUT, I would like to say that I am confident that even if SAA's demographic numbers were 100% in favour of blacks, it will be a matter of (short) time before it ends up like the rest of the African Airlines. Want to debate that!? Show me one succesful airline in Africa other than SAA that has an excellent safety record, well maintained aircraft and well trained crew recognized by ICAO and IATO. You say Ethiopian and Kenyan Airways? Perhaps because they have PALES in flight operations departments.

And don't come with BS saying that non-pales in general can not afford self sponsored flight training. There are plenty of wealth amongst non-pales in SA to look after their own type.

JG1

and, anyway, I am not 'pale', you insubordinate little sh1t. I am white.

You are probably pale - when you are flying an ILS to minima.

Afriviation

No one is asking any pale Aviation Company to pay for any non pale trainee or hire any black qualified pilot. That would be a foolish request judging from their willingness to share with others in the lhistory of this country.

Accept that this is a multi racial country and the government has to do what they have to strike some kind of balance in this polarised financial situation. The reason I am referring to a financial situaton is because Aviation is Money and there's no way most non pales can afford even going solo in a cherokee.

As for Zim Instructors and the like, well I'm sure the Government is frustrated by the pale instructors who keep on frustrating their efforts by failing the non pale students and wasting taxpayers money as the responses in this thread clearly show, non pales are not yet welcome in SA cockpits.

JG1, in most of them I have no concept of the topics being disccussed. A lot of Captains I've flown with would discuss a racial topic and I would have to swallow even though I know that it is innapproriate but I am not about to risk my ccrediblity by arguing with them
But obviously that's not a critical motive for my post.

I am sick and tired of the SA Aviation Community who are always moaning about Nhlanhla Dube, SAA Cadets failing interviews, Black people at the SACAA, Zim Instructors, affirmative action and the like whereas they are still a majority in this industry. Instead of helping out and being part off the solution and help getting this industry to grips with the new dispensation.

beechbum

It seems that some "Pale" individual at SAA ops pissed on your battery this morning and is this your way of getting back Afri?Get on with it,grow up and realise that it's reality out there.........man this yanks my chain!!
"I am sick and tired of the SA Aviation Community who are always moaning about Nhlanhla Dube, SAA Cadets failing interviews, Black people at the SACAA, Zim Instructors, affirmative action and..."
And the reason Afri is because they are USELESS.......bottom line........face the facts.

Afriviation

For the benefit of those around the world who have been feeling sorry for the pales in this country, you don't have a reason to, they make up more than 95% of the Aviation Professionals (Pilots, Engineers) whilst they represent less than 10% of the total population and they moan like hell.

Phenomenon

"Government is frustrated by the pale instructors who keep on frustrating their efforts by failing the non pale students and wasting taxpayers money"

I really hate to burst you bubble but the white instructors can not be expected to just pass black students. Here are just a few examples that should show you why they failed.

* A certain duo of black cadet pilots flew a Cherokee 180 into a bloody sand dune and ripped of the main gear because they could not judge their height. And then they tried to blame it on a bad landing.

* Another black pilot from another cadet scheme landed a Cherokee 180 with the parkbrake on resulting in quite an interesting doughnut on the runway and she said she confused the parking brake with the flaps???

* When yet another black cadet got into an aircraft for the first time, her words was: "What are all these clocks doing here? I don't want to read time... I just want to fly."

Do I really need to go on?

They are not failed because they are black and they will not be passed because they are black. They are failed because they cannot fly a bloody aircraft!!!

Felix04

Afriviation,

"Accept that this is a multi racial country and the government has to do what they have to strike some kind of balance in this polarised financial situation. The reason I am referring to a financial situaton is because Aviation is Money and there's no way most non pales can afford even going solo in a cherokee"

"I really hate to burst you bubble but the white instructors can not be expected to just pass black students. Here are just a few examples that should show you why they failed.

* A certain duo of black cadet pilots flew a Cherokee 180 into a bloody sand dune and ripped of the main gear because they could not judge their height. And then they tried to blame it on a bad landing.

* Another black pilot from another cadet scheme landed a Cherokee 180 with the parkbrake on resulting in quite an interesting doughnut on the runway and she said she confused the parking brake with the flaps???

* When yet another black cadet got into an aircraft for the first time, her words was: "What are all these clocks doing here? I don't want to read time... I just want to fly"


Do you want to know what the sad part of this whole story is. Is that the above mentioned posts is black individuals whom had the opportunity, but they do not seem to have a passion for it or the ability.

Go and look at most of the flying clubs around the country and show me how many of the BEE canidates mans the desk at the flying schools for a hours worth of flying. There is a lot of white canidates doing that that has a passion for aviation.

I'ts unfortunate but we are in a situation where a lot of these canidates expects it to be given to them without having to work their ars off for it.

Once again this is not an unsubstatiated comment that I am sucking out of my thumb. Go and talk to the people at the "grass roots" level.

I think that you have lost track of reality, with regard to the current situation

I'm glad that I don't work for the same company as you.
If there's likeminded individuals with the arrogance you are displaying at the
moment, such a company is only heading in one direction.

JG1

Afriviation, glad you are back.

'The reason I am referring to a financial situaton is because Aviation is Money and there's no way most non pales can afford even going solo in a cherokee.'

Don't want to burst your bubble, but there's no way most whites can afford even going solo in a Cherokee, either.

As others have pointed out, they worked their butts off to become pilots. I know some who waitered and blew all their tips & wages for the month on ONE lesson. We weren't all handed it on a plate.

The last thing my father ever gave me was a Chopper bicycle on my 8th birthday.

Ja, and in case you haven't noticed, we ALL moan. Its not just a white thing.

As far as evening out the financial balance....next time you drive, have a look in most of the over-R500k cars you see on the road - 90% black drivers.

Their sons don't want to become pilots, they are too busy making millions in BEE!!! in fact, Afri, you must look like a bit of a loser to a lot of your peers....they are driving BMW645i's and raking in millions...you are just a boy pilot..!

Again - off to your MP. Once you are past the ML430 and the X5 in the driveway you can ask him/her why you got nobbed into such a kak job when you were supposed to be liberated.

Afriviation

Oh My I like this, the more you are trying to debate the subject, the more you're exposing your own prejudices.

JG1 sorry baas, your humble servant didn't mean to hurt your feelings I am now becoming more enlightened to challenge you in reconising that I too have talents just like you and given the opprtunity I'll probably demonstrate better operations and landings than you could ever imagine.



Not once did I expect anything to be delivered on a plate. But like so many affirmative appointees,they DEMAND and want everything for nothing because they have been so hard done by.Work for it and show everyone that you deserve it.
I think Afri you have a lot of thinking to do and realise that Rome wasn't built in a day.......it will happen.......but also.... very slowly

I ain't waiting until my Great Grand Children see the fruits of the liberation, the time is now and something has to be done NOW. You have to plant the seeds, where are these planted in SA Aviation today?

Phenomenon, You talk of black student that have been in aircraft prangs and demonstrated a lack of undertsanding about Aviation, well yes what do you expect from our background. The policies of the previous government were to ensure that we do not become anything but cleaners, carpenters Bantu education teachers etc. Well you know what, despite all those barriers non pales have in their little way managed to break out. It is not acceptable that these talented people are stiffled to this very day and not be allowed to reach their full potential
On the other hand, how many pale students havee pranged aircraft in the military and civillian aircraft. But these don't get media coverage because it's Ok for them to have accidents. But non pales are so much in the spotlight that even when they sneeze it has to make headlines.

What is expected of a non pale in South Africa " Kom hierso seun was my kar" or "Maak my tuin" if a non pale shows any signs of assertiveness or confidence he is referred to as having an attitude problem or a chip on his shoulder and therefore not pilot material, probably because he'll challeged the Captain when he's about to screw up. I believe I have chips on both I'm proud.

"As others have pointed out, they worked their butts off to become pilots. I know some who waitered and blew all their tips & wages for the month on ONE lesson. We weren't all handed it on a plate."

That is true, however generally you will now that some if not most of your compatriots had Daddy paying directly or indirectly and Oh how can I forget then there's the thousands who received their flying training from the military - "gratis" When the very same thing is done for non pales Oh it's so unfair, Silver platters, Shame on you.

Even If A non pale can get a job as a waiter they probably have 3 brothers and SIsters to support, nieces and nephews. You know the thing about non pales they are very supportive of their family structures even if it means sacrificing the little bit they have.

JG1

Ja well Afri, if I was a cleaner or a garden boy then I would make sure I didn't have six children.

JG1

"JG1 sorry baas, your humble servant didn't mean to hurt your feelings I am now becoming more enlightened to challenge you in reconising that I too have talents just like you and given the opprtunity I'll probably demonstrate better operations and landings than you could ever imagine."
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I very much doubt that, but I will humour you. I recognise that you have talents. Maybe not as much talent as someone who had to work their way up the hard way, on contract in the Congo, Afghanistan, Angola etc, but you got your PPL and passed your Comm exams. And you can do a bit of radio work, one would hope. You are sitting as P3 in a long-haul aircraft, where lots of others dream to be. So you have been given the opportunity.

So lets see you demonstrate a little maturity and see the world from a more balanced perspective. Put your past behind you and look to your future. At the moment, things are going so well for you that the only one who can cock it up is you.

beechbum

"I ain't waiting until my Great Grand Children see the fruits of the liberation, the time is now and something has to be done NOW. You have to plant the seeds, where are these planted in SA Aviation today?"

You see there you go again.....I DEMAND....,.....I want it now.
Well Afriman it ain't going to happen NOW.....so get off your high horse and come back to earth.....,.bump....,..thud.....

putco

l don't post much at all but...

l am surprised how many of you lads have let this dope get up your noses.

Let's face it Haiti has been independent 200 years and they still don't have tarred roads or running water. Pales have take half of that to start flying, get someone to the moon and be where we are now.

Afri is the one with the biggest headache amongst us guys. He KNOWS that he is useless but worst of all for him, and this is the peanut, he KNOWS that the world knows, he is useless! That must be devastating.

Take care All, fambai zvakanaka...

beechbum

Putco,
Well said...but then again he's too useless to realise all of this.
Like I said before some sort of hev at Saa pissed on his luggage so he's just getting his own back.