Kabul Minima
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kabul Minima
Not quite Africa but I have posted here as there are a lot of SA opperators In Afghanistan!
Would just like to know what other BE20 opperators SOP's are with reguard to T/O minima out of Kabul. Our company is currently using 1500' base and 1000m vis which I think is reasonable given the performance of a fully loaded 200, on one engine, at this altitude and the terain. There have been discussions that this is too restrictive.
Just interested to know what others are using.
Fly Safe!
EW
Would just like to know what other BE20 opperators SOP's are with reguard to T/O minima out of Kabul. Our company is currently using 1500' base and 1000m vis which I think is reasonable given the performance of a fully loaded 200, on one engine, at this altitude and the terain. There have been discussions that this is too restrictive.
Just interested to know what others are using.
Fly Safe!
EW
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: East Africa
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having flown in Kabul I am quite familiar with the airport and surrounding terrain. Unfortunately the sector safe altitude is over 18 000ft and to my knowledge, there are still no approach aids into Kabul. I feel that with a fully laden a/c with 1 engine out you're asking for trouble with the limits you're flying to. Poor viz is common, sometimes heavy snow so why subject yourself to even lower limits. Fly safe
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: edge of reality
Posts: 792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PERFECT AIR
Things must have changed a good deal since you were here... We have a VOR DME approach plus a procedural ILS and you can also get vectors for the ILS.... If you know Kabul you'll also know that the thick pollution haze layer that we have to live with would prevent any movement of aircraft for 80% of the time if we had t/o minima much above that quoted by EW....
Things must have changed a good deal since you were here... We have a VOR DME approach plus a procedural ILS and you can also get vectors for the ILS.... If you know Kabul you'll also know that the thick pollution haze layer that we have to live with would prevent any movement of aircraft for 80% of the time if we had t/o minima much above that quoted by EW....
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: East Africa
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the update, good to hear Nav Aids installed - should be much safer now. Its still a concern for me, in the event a single engine go around in any a/c- with very poor vis as well as low minima, but that's the way its done there Happy flying in that beautiful part of the world.
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hope you guys will look out for a freind of Mine up there flying helicopters. Name is Mike Haas. Just got in country and is working for Dyn Corp. If nothing else tell him Bert said he owes you a Beer. He wont have a clue.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: JNB
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The required roc climb for the departure proceedure out of Kabul is aproxamatly 550 fpm to 11 200'. Granted with the terain around I would be able to open a coke bottle with my naught if on one engine, but it does not seem like all that high a roc. Anyway the minima u guys are using sounds quite senseble to me.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: SOUTH AFRICA
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kabul departure minimas.
Hi there, I have flown in Afghanistan quite a few times so I know exactly what you are talking about.
The only thing I can say is that the SA law states that you as the Captain must ensure that you clear all obstacles by 35 feet. So if you can plan your own engine inoperative flight path to clear all obstacles by 35 feet then you will be OK.
Let say you loose an engine at V1 and continue, you must work out how far you will go before reaching 400 ft agl and after that you can change direction max 15 deg bank angle. So lets say at 7 DME you reach 400ft you can then turn left 15 deg bank angle and then route towards the VOR and once overhead route outbound on the inbound ILS/VOR inbound track.
You first need to work out what climb percentage you will achieve and then convert that into ROC. Now you can test your engine inoperative flight path by simulating your climb performance. As you Take-off and raise the Gear, reduce your power to set up a climb path at V2 and your engine inoperative ROC and then you can test if it will be safe.
I know this sounds like a long shot, but I know what it is like operating on contract, it's definately not like operating for an airline where they get people to work it out for them, so unfortunately you will have to do this yourself.
The main thing is though you might have to reduce your max T/O weight to ensure that you achieve a 2.0%or 2.4% what ever it is you require.
Hope this helps a little.
Cheers
Swoosh
The only thing I can say is that the SA law states that you as the Captain must ensure that you clear all obstacles by 35 feet. So if you can plan your own engine inoperative flight path to clear all obstacles by 35 feet then you will be OK.
Let say you loose an engine at V1 and continue, you must work out how far you will go before reaching 400 ft agl and after that you can change direction max 15 deg bank angle. So lets say at 7 DME you reach 400ft you can then turn left 15 deg bank angle and then route towards the VOR and once overhead route outbound on the inbound ILS/VOR inbound track.
You first need to work out what climb percentage you will achieve and then convert that into ROC. Now you can test your engine inoperative flight path by simulating your climb performance. As you Take-off and raise the Gear, reduce your power to set up a climb path at V2 and your engine inoperative ROC and then you can test if it will be safe.
I know this sounds like a long shot, but I know what it is like operating on contract, it's definately not like operating for an airline where they get people to work it out for them, so unfortunately you will have to do this yourself.
The main thing is though you might have to reduce your max T/O weight to ensure that you achieve a 2.0%or 2.4% what ever it is you require.
Hope this helps a little.
Cheers
Swoosh
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: JNB
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Regards my previous post, Glimb gradient is already worked into the plate. ie speed vs rate of climb. That is where I came up with 550fpm. There is a table on the plate. The turn is made right towards the VOR.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Chaps
Thanks for the responce,
I think we all agree that IMC opps out of Kabul are a little questionable when you take into account the S/E perpormance of a loaded 200 but we have to draw the line some place or we will never take off. As far as the S/E go around is concerned, that's not something I'd like to have to do at Kabul in IMC
.
Anyway if any of you guys flying here at the moment would like to comment on what your SOP's are with reguard to this it would be appreciated!
Happy Landings
EW
Thanks for the responce,
I think we all agree that IMC opps out of Kabul are a little questionable when you take into account the S/E perpormance of a loaded 200 but we have to draw the line some place or we will never take off. As far as the S/E go around is concerned, that's not something I'd like to have to do at Kabul in IMC .Anyway if any of you guys flying here at the moment would like to comment on what your SOP's are with reguard to this it would be appreciated!
Happy Landings
EW
