Bill tough on mercenaries, but not 'freedom fighters'
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Bill tough on mercenaries, but not 'freedom fighters'
Cape Times
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Bill tough on mercenaries, but not 'freedom fighters'
September 29, 2005
By Peter Fabricius
The government plans to toughen up its anti-mercenary law, but has made a controversial exception that would allow South Africans to join liberation struggles in other countries.
Draft amendments to the 1998 Regulation of Foreign Military Assistance Act would introduce compulsory minimum jail terms of up to 15 years for South Africans who provide military or security services abroad.
It will also give the government broader discretion to decide which countries South Africans may serve in.
Analysts believe the law is aimed at the hundreds of South Africans serving in Iraq as security officers and guards on the side of the Iraqi government and its foreign backers led by the US.
But while tightening up on these, it excludes "participation in national liberation struggles for the liberation of peoples of any country, self-determination and independence from colonialism, occupation, aggression or domination in accordance with the principles of international law".
"Does this mean it's OK to join Hamas?" asked one analyst.
The amendment bill has not been formally tabled in parliament but it was approved by the cabinet on September 14.
It is understood that the bill remains essentially the same.
Yesterday MP Kader Asmal, who helped draft the bill as chairman of parliament's defence committee, defended the exemption from the law for South Africans participating in liberation struggles.
He said the United Nations, in its recent negotiations on defining terrorism, had not defined those who participated in liberation struggles as terrorists.
The original 1998 legislation is is widely regarded as being too vague to deter South Africans, including South African residents - from working abroad as soldiers or security officers.
So far, South African courts have been able to fine only a few individuals after out-of-court settlements.
The most notable fine was that handed earlier this year to Mark Thatcher, son of former British prime minister Margaret Thatcher, for allegedly helping to finance the purchase of a helicopter that was to have been used in an attempted coup in Equatorial Guinea.
The law as it stands allows judges to impose sentences or fines and does not set minimums.
The draft amendment would set minimum jail terms of five, 10 and 15 years, without the option of a fine.
It would also give the government-controlled National Conventional Arms Control Committee the power to define any country as "regulated" - thereby forbidding South Africans from offering military or security services in such a country.
One analyst, who asked not to be named, said this measure appeared to be aimed at the many South Africans doing security work in Iraq.
The draft amendment would expose inconsistencies in approach. Instead of defining forbidden mercenary activity more precisely, the government had given itself discretion to select countries in which South Africans could not serve.
"It looks like they are saying it's OK to be a mercenary for someone we like, but not for someone we don't like.
"What about places like Sudan? The US is increasingly offering to help the African Union deal with conflicts and has farmed out some of this work to private security companies. Isn't that mercenarism as defined by this legislation?"
September 29, 2005
By Peter Fabricius
The government plans to toughen up its anti-mercenary law, but has made a controversial exception that would allow South Africans to join liberation struggles in other countries.
Draft amendments to the 1998 Regulation of Foreign Military Assistance Act would introduce compulsory minimum jail terms of up to 15 years for South Africans who provide military or security services abroad.
It will also give the government broader discretion to decide which countries South Africans may serve in.
Analysts believe the law is aimed at the hundreds of South Africans serving in Iraq as security officers and guards on the side of the Iraqi government and its foreign backers led by the US.
But while tightening up on these, it excludes "participation in national liberation struggles for the liberation of peoples of any country, self-determination and independence from colonialism, occupation, aggression or domination in accordance with the principles of international law".
"Does this mean it's OK to join Hamas?" asked one analyst.
The amendment bill has not been formally tabled in parliament but it was approved by the cabinet on September 14.
It is understood that the bill remains essentially the same.
Yesterday MP Kader Asmal, who helped draft the bill as chairman of parliament's defence committee, defended the exemption from the law for South Africans participating in liberation struggles.
He said the United Nations, in its recent negotiations on defining terrorism, had not defined those who participated in liberation struggles as terrorists.
The original 1998 legislation is is widely regarded as being too vague to deter South Africans, including South African residents - from working abroad as soldiers or security officers.
So far, South African courts have been able to fine only a few individuals after out-of-court settlements.
The most notable fine was that handed earlier this year to Mark Thatcher, son of former British prime minister Margaret Thatcher, for allegedly helping to finance the purchase of a helicopter that was to have been used in an attempted coup in Equatorial Guinea.
The law as it stands allows judges to impose sentences or fines and does not set minimums.
The draft amendment would set minimum jail terms of five, 10 and 15 years, without the option of a fine.
It would also give the government-controlled National Conventional Arms Control Committee the power to define any country as "regulated" - thereby forbidding South Africans from offering military or security services in such a country.
One analyst, who asked not to be named, said this measure appeared to be aimed at the many South Africans doing security work in Iraq.
The draft amendment would expose inconsistencies in approach. Instead of defining forbidden mercenary activity more precisely, the government had given itself discretion to select countries in which South Africans could not serve.
"It looks like they are saying it's OK to be a mercenary for someone we like, but not for someone we don't like.
"What about places like Sudan? The US is increasingly offering to help the African Union deal with conflicts and has farmed out some of this work to private security companies. Isn't that mercenarism as defined by this legislation?"
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Moderator: I know not directly aviation related, but I think of great interest to those operating in Africa.
I cross my fingers that if the current SA regime decides to go after them that the U.S. will provide green cards....As they have done for so many others .. In fact it should be done anyway...
As I understand they do get something with their DOD card. But it's not a Green Card.
I really don't see how Pretoria can track these guys and there are lots of them working up there, thousands of them.
Good luck to them, they're doing a very good job there
I really don't see how Pretoria can track these guys and there are lots of them working up there, thousands of them.
Good luck to them, they're doing a very good job there
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As I understand they do get something with their DOD card
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Now this is the part I don't understand. There is quite a few security companies that has been operating in Africa for a number of years and to date, nobody has even mentioned them or charged them etc.
You get a few (and quite a few) ex army, police etc people to join a legal security company that provides security work in Iraq, and the guys will get prosecuted.
What am I missing? Is it ok to work in Africa but not ok to work in any other part of the world. What about South African people that provided security work in London or even Bosnia. a couple of years ago.
The fact that you can join an armed struggle and a terrorist orrganisation is fine, but just don't join a legal security company. It is the same for our road rules. You can drive in the eyellow lane, drive an unroadworthy vehicle , overload the vehicle, buy your locence etc but nevver drive 70 km/h in a 60 zone, and you will experience the full force of the law.
Maybe the fact that most of the guys that work in the security industry comes from the "old era" has got something to do with the prosecution. Maybe, one day when they come back , they could become the Metro Police at some corrupt metro.
To the guys in Iraq, go for it. You doing a good job.
You get a few (and quite a few) ex army, police etc people to join a legal security company that provides security work in Iraq, and the guys will get prosecuted.
What am I missing? Is it ok to work in Africa but not ok to work in any other part of the world. What about South African people that provided security work in London or even Bosnia. a couple of years ago.
The fact that you can join an armed struggle and a terrorist orrganisation is fine, but just don't join a legal security company. It is the same for our road rules. You can drive in the eyellow lane, drive an unroadworthy vehicle , overload the vehicle, buy your locence etc but nevver drive 70 km/h in a 60 zone, and you will experience the full force of the law.
Maybe the fact that most of the guys that work in the security industry comes from the "old era" has got something to do with the prosecution. Maybe, one day when they come back , they could become the Metro Police at some corrupt metro.
To the guys in Iraq, go for it. You doing a good job.
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F!@#$g idiots
I am very interested to see where this one is going, because it will surely affect the lives of a great number of South Africans, including pilots. I am affraid to say that all I can read out of this move, is that its just another way to prosecute " the man ". As we all know, none of us working outside are really involved in any real mercenary activities, but merely making a living for ourselves. Methinks they hate the fact that we earn elsewhere, dont pay tax, and can make a living without having to grovel at their gravy stained feet. SO ... you can be freedom fighter then eh.....? But only in country run by the brutthas..?? mmm, wonder whos up for that then.........
F@#%$$g idiots
F@#%$$g idiots
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Im saying once its over, if they have problems in SA Im hoping Uncle Sam wont turn his back. He has done that before in Vietnam. Of course we didnt learn much there either.
To all the guys elsewhere doing a good job, for what it's worth, you have my best wishes. Good luck.
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As a matter of interest, does anyone know if other countries have laws like this ?
Also, does this then make a criminal out of a South African citizen who joins for example the RAF ? (I would assume to join the RAF you need to become a Brit citizen first ... but then what is your status in SA ? .. a criminal ?)
Also, does this then make a criminal out of a South African citizen who joins for example the RAF ? (I would assume to join the RAF you need to become a Brit citizen first ... but then what is your status in SA ? .. a criminal ?)
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In the hey-day of the War in SL we had a SAS Lt .. needed a year to get his Brit citizenship and pienk passport.
Amazing - a Saffer in charge of a massive ops.
His Seargent - well he was a Rhodesian (as he said)
Amazing - a Saffer in charge of a massive ops.
His Seargent - well he was a Rhodesian (as he said)
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Yeah...no doubt this is a way ol Thabo can protect his old time buddy Bob up north in Zim.
Putting Whiteys out of legitimate work is nothing new....just a strategy to protect the interests of the ones holding the stick. Just watch out for the single pilot scenario.....no doubt they will want us to fill da planes just like they want us now to start filling da cars and ban single drivers....hogwash..what a joke. Downhill from here....
Putting Whiteys out of legitimate work is nothing new....just a strategy to protect the interests of the ones holding the stick. Just watch out for the single pilot scenario.....no doubt they will want us to fill da planes just like they want us now to start filling da cars and ban single drivers....hogwash..what a joke. Downhill from here....
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The Portfolio Committee on Defence invites individuals and organisations to submit written comments on the
Prohibition of Mercenary Activity and Prohibition and Regulation of Certain Activities in an Area of Armed Conflict Bill, 2005 [This version is as approved by Cabinet but before the State Law Advisors have finalised it].
Please note: The final version of the Bill will only be tabled on approximately 24 October.
The hearings are scheduled for 8 and 9 November 2005 and the written submissions should be submitted by 31 October 2005. You may be requested to give verbal evidence before the Committee on the basis of your submission.
Submissions can be addressed to Mr G Campher, PO Box 15, Cape Town 8000 (tel. (021) 403 3714)
Email [email protected]
The Bill can also be accessed at: http://www.pmg.org.za/bills/051013MercenaryBill.htm
Prohibition of Mercenary Activity and Prohibition and Regulation of Certain Activities in an Area of Armed Conflict Bill, 2005 [This version is as approved by Cabinet but before the State Law Advisors have finalised it].
Please note: The final version of the Bill will only be tabled on approximately 24 October.
The hearings are scheduled for 8 and 9 November 2005 and the written submissions should be submitted by 31 October 2005. You may be requested to give verbal evidence before the Committee on the basis of your submission.
Submissions can be addressed to Mr G Campher, PO Box 15, Cape Town 8000 (tel. (021) 403 3714)
Email [email protected]
The Bill can also be accessed at: http://www.pmg.org.za/bills/051013MercenaryBill.htm
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Please note that the dates for the following public hearings have been rescheduled to Tues, 01 November and Wed, 02 November 2005, from 09:00-17:00
The Portfolio Committee on Defence invites individuals and organisations to submit written comments on the Prohibition of Mercenary Activity and Prohibition and Regulation of Certain Activities in an Area of Armed Conflict Bill, 2005 [This version is as approved by Cabinet but before the State Law Advisors have finalised it].
Please note: The final version of the Bill will only be tabled on approximately 24 October.
Written submissions should be submitted by 31 October 2005. You may be requested to give verbal evidence before the Committee on the basis of your submission.
The Bill can also be accessed at: http://www.pmg.org.za/bills/051013MercenaryBill.htm
Submissions can be addressed to Mr G Campher, PO Box 15, Cape Town 8000,(tel. (021) 403 3714) ,Email [email protected]
The Portfolio Committee on Defence invites individuals and organisations to submit written comments on the Prohibition of Mercenary Activity and Prohibition and Regulation of Certain Activities in an Area of Armed Conflict Bill, 2005 [This version is as approved by Cabinet but before the State Law Advisors have finalised it].
Please note: The final version of the Bill will only be tabled on approximately 24 October.
Written submissions should be submitted by 31 October 2005. You may be requested to give verbal evidence before the Committee on the basis of your submission.
The Bill can also be accessed at: http://www.pmg.org.za/bills/051013MercenaryBill.htm
Submissions can be addressed to Mr G Campher, PO Box 15, Cape Town 8000,(tel. (021) 403 3714) ,Email [email protected]
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TAKE NOTICE ALL PILOTS, ENGINEERS, DIRECTORS, OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES OF CONTRACT COMPANIES.
THIS ACT IS AIMED AT YOU TOO!!!!!!
I suggest that you actually read all the hogwash intended to become the act because they have also defined humanitarian aid and if you want to perform it you will have to apply for dispensation.
Don't just ignore this thread, it does not only apply to security types in Iraq, and yes, if you want to join the RAF you will have to get similar dispensation - which will lapse immediately you get involved in a conflict.
This will also apply to non-SA citizens "normally resident in SA".
The implications of this act are very far reaching.
Unless you want to join the PLO!
THIS ACT IS AIMED AT YOU TOO!!!!!!
I suggest that you actually read all the hogwash intended to become the act because they have also defined humanitarian aid and if you want to perform it you will have to apply for dispensation.
Don't just ignore this thread, it does not only apply to security types in Iraq, and yes, if you want to join the RAF you will have to get similar dispensation - which will lapse immediately you get involved in a conflict.
This will also apply to non-SA citizens "normally resident in SA".
The implications of this act are very far reaching.
Unless you want to join the PLO!
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good call Lambert, you are absolutely right. This foolishness has the potential to cause problems for a great number of us in the industry.Does anybody have any ideas of how best to approach this one ? Should we be making an effort to form a united front against this ?
By extension , this act of law seems to make South Africa a state that supports terrorism, which is shameful enough ( but not altogether surprising ) , but I think we need to formulate a plan to put up a fight against this.
By extension , this act of law seems to make South Africa a state that supports terrorism, which is shameful enough ( but not altogether surprising ) , but I think we need to formulate a plan to put up a fight against this.
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We certainly do need a united front to tackle an issue like this. Such a front already exists in the form of ALPA. The voice of ALPA is recognised by government and would certainly be the most productive channel to address this issue.
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My 2cents worth – you should all write individually whilst at the same time arranging a “united front” – times short.
I’ve only just got round to reading the proposed act and just realised what could be it’s consequences.
I was involved in a small way getting a helicopter to Sri Lanka for the tsunami relief – there is a “conflict” in that country so Technically under section 5 (1) it could be said I was involved in the “rendering” of humanitarian assistance for which I would have needed an Authorisation.
True – for what I actually did it would be stretch for them “to get me” – but had I gone as engineer (or pilot or ops if I had those qualifications) it would definitely have applied – despite the fact I am only a resident and the helo isn’t SA reg.
Interestingly I would also need SA to give me permission to join the armed force of the country which I am a citizen of – but if I actually fought I would be breaking SA law – Section 4 – any Yanks living here still on reserve ? get called up for a tour and your in trouble here.
It also seems to me they (the SA govt) gets to determine too much – maybe the UN should be mentioned as the people who determine if an “armed conflict” is in place or not.
As with most laws it needs reading on a deep’ish level thinking about how it could be interpreted as affecting you – don’t just look at the words think how the could be interpreted by a lawyer who doesn’t like you.
I’ve only just got round to reading the proposed act and just realised what could be it’s consequences.
I was involved in a small way getting a helicopter to Sri Lanka for the tsunami relief – there is a “conflict” in that country so Technically under section 5 (1) it could be said I was involved in the “rendering” of humanitarian assistance for which I would have needed an Authorisation.
True – for what I actually did it would be stretch for them “to get me” – but had I gone as engineer (or pilot or ops if I had those qualifications) it would definitely have applied – despite the fact I am only a resident and the helo isn’t SA reg.
Interestingly I would also need SA to give me permission to join the armed force of the country which I am a citizen of – but if I actually fought I would be breaking SA law – Section 4 – any Yanks living here still on reserve ? get called up for a tour and your in trouble here.
It also seems to me they (the SA govt) gets to determine too much – maybe the UN should be mentioned as the people who determine if an “armed conflict” is in place or not.
As with most laws it needs reading on a deep’ish level thinking about how it could be interpreted as affecting you – don’t just look at the words think how the could be interpreted by a lawyer who doesn’t like you.
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The South African team carrying out humanitarian work in the aftermath of the earth quake in the Kashmir are in full contravention of the act. Kashmir is a conflict area so the team might have to face the Scorpions when they return.
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Very glad to see that there is a great deal of unity on this one.... one of the reasons that there are so many South African companies working in both the aviation and security fields in various " areas of conflict " is that they are so well regarded in those fields.Let's not let the bureau-prats put a stop to this work.
I can understand the government wanting to stop foolish episodes like the coup attempt in Equatorial Guinea, and apparently that is what this bill was aimed at originally...but now it is trying to go too far. Also, the mind boggles at the bills' cretinous reference to "freedom fighters ".... what the hell ? The South African government must be very careful of what they are saying on this one : tacitly or overtly supporting Islamic extremism isn't a great idea these days.... and that seems to be what the bill is hinting at, or am I over-reacting ?
Anyhow, I feel very strongly that we must all push our bosses in the industry to stand together on this
I can understand the government wanting to stop foolish episodes like the coup attempt in Equatorial Guinea, and apparently that is what this bill was aimed at originally...but now it is trying to go too far. Also, the mind boggles at the bills' cretinous reference to "freedom fighters ".... what the hell ? The South African government must be very careful of what they are saying on this one : tacitly or overtly supporting Islamic extremism isn't a great idea these days.... and that seems to be what the bill is hinting at, or am I over-reacting ?
Anyhow, I feel very strongly that we must all push our bosses in the industry to stand together on this
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It makes the blood boil!
But that is what it's intended to do!
Let's face it, SA has a majority government in place, whose previous leader could've been let out of jail, long before he was, if he denounced violence/ terrorism (for which he was put in jail - explosives tonnes thereof, Handwritten manuscript: How to be a good Communist - not because of his skincolour), but refused.
Instead an armed struggle (people shot in the back while sitting in a church service or at a pub - freedom fighters, farmers killed by landmines, bombs in public places etc.) is still raging. Away from home, these guys are making money as opposed to affirmative action restricting them in SA and there they can't be killed in their houses!
Laws are passed by the drop of a hat because of this majority government whose main characters are members of the SACP (Communist Party) now having a DEMOCRATIC government.
How can they slap Bob on the fingers when ANC headquarters for long had an address there. Bite the hand that fed them for so long?
It's really getting out of hand!
Let's face it, SA has a majority government in place, whose previous leader could've been let out of jail, long before he was, if he denounced violence/ terrorism (for which he was put in jail - explosives tonnes thereof, Handwritten manuscript: How to be a good Communist - not because of his skincolour), but refused.
Instead an armed struggle (people shot in the back while sitting in a church service or at a pub - freedom fighters, farmers killed by landmines, bombs in public places etc.) is still raging. Away from home, these guys are making money as opposed to affirmative action restricting them in SA and there they can't be killed in their houses!
Laws are passed by the drop of a hat because of this majority government whose main characters are members of the SACP (Communist Party) now having a DEMOCRATIC government.
How can they slap Bob on the fingers when ANC headquarters for long had an address there. Bite the hand that fed them for so long?
It's really getting out of hand!