SA Airlink to be dumped by SAA
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Where they send me
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SA Airlink to be dumped by SAA
Various sources reporting that SA Airlink is losing its codeshare with SAA towards the end of 2005. Rodger and Barry were recently seen jetting off to the UK to talk to Virgin. Who's going to take over their routes for SAA?? SAX?? Big changes on the horizon!!
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Can't remember.
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've heard that also. Will be interesting if link becomes a Virgin feeder.
Now if things don't work out as planned, Roger won't be able to blame SAA.
Also heard that Duke Morosi is returning from SAA as flight ops manager
Now if things don't work out as planned, Roger won't be able to blame SAA.
Also heard that Duke Morosi is returning from SAA as flight ops manager
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TooBadSoSad.....
No-No SAX will not be able to take over Airlink's routes as they will soon not have any Engineers left ..... ???
The money is aparently not good at all at SAX Maintenance and they are all looking around.
Nationwide is taking the cream of their crop with lots more to have their Interviews soon.....some even applied at Airlink.
No-No SAX will not be able to take over Airlink's routes as they will soon not have any Engineers left ..... ???
The money is aparently not good at all at SAX Maintenance and they are all looking around.
Nationwide is taking the cream of their crop with lots more to have their Interviews soon.....some even applied at Airlink.
Registered User *
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Not here anymore
Age: 63
Posts: 591
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe the fact that Link recently went with Genesis (from New Zealand I think?) for a management tool instead of (still) waiting for SAA's "whatever" system says a lot too.
Incidentelly, I also reckon this thread's name, especially the "dump" part, is a misnomer.
Surely SAX cannot do (past, present and future) what Link does, but, and it's a huge but, Link is going to need some serious capital investment should they get out of bed with SAA. I cannot see them dumping present domestic routes just because they are not friends with SAA anymore. In terms of BASA's and political issues they might get screwed on their regional routes though. They also have no competition on the majority of domestic routes. From some or other Nationwide related thread on PPrune I am also lead to believe that Virgin is in bed with SAA now. Might be wrong though. So why the Virgin connection? Then there's also the Voyager programme...pax think about this seriously! Need something to replace this I would say.
For me, and I've said it for many years, a BA/Comair/Link tie-up would be a good one...very good I think.
Incidentelly, I also reckon this thread's name, especially the "dump" part, is a misnomer.
Surely SAX cannot do (past, present and future) what Link does, but, and it's a huge but, Link is going to need some serious capital investment should they get out of bed with SAA. I cannot see them dumping present domestic routes just because they are not friends with SAA anymore. In terms of BASA's and political issues they might get screwed on their regional routes though. They also have no competition on the majority of domestic routes. From some or other Nationwide related thread on PPrune I am also lead to believe that Virgin is in bed with SAA now. Might be wrong though. So why the Virgin connection? Then there's also the Voyager programme...pax think about this seriously! Need something to replace this I would say.
For me, and I've said it for many years, a BA/Comair/Link tie-up would be a good one...very good I think.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe the fact that Link recently went with Genesis (from New Zealand I think?) for a management tool instead of (still) waiting for SAA's "whatever" system says a lot too.
ummm, that would be Genesis also, had it for at least 5 years to my knowledge
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: South Africa
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
End the Rumour
Sunday Times 1 May 2005
SAA dumps an old partner
01 May 2005
Print friendly Send to a friend
ROGER MAKINGS
SOUTH African Airways (SAA) will end its long-standing relationship with feeder carrier SA Airlink.
The national carrier has served notice on its partner of its intention, which will become effective from November.
Both SAA and SA Airlink were tightlipped over the decision this week despite the fact that staff on both carriers are fully aware of the decision.
SAA said the airline “chose not to comment at this stage”.
Rodger Foster, the chief executive of SA Airlink, said: “I can’t comment.”
SA Airlink will have to take on new livery and seek out partnerships with other carriers once it leaves the alliance it has had with SAA and SA Express for about eight years.
This will now make SA Airlink a competitor rather than a partner on the domestic and regional routes it serves.
The reason for the split, according to sources within SAA, which owns 10% of SA Airlink, is that SAA fears questions from its nemesis, the Competitions Commission, over its “anti-competitive” association with SA Airlink.
SAA has the threat of a R1.6-billion fine hanging over its head for giving override incentives to travel agents.
This has yet to be ruled on by the Competition Tribunal.
On top of this, SAA is also facing possible punitive civil suits from its rivals, BA/Comair and Nationwide, in this regard, not to mention further allegations of price collusion.
An SAA source said this week that under its existing relationship with SA Airlink, it prescribed to the feeder carrier what size aircraft it could fly and which routes it could and could not operate.
“We have identified that this could be a problem and be construed as anti-competitive by the commission.”
The source said that although the two airlines could continue their code-share relationship, or keep selling seats on each others’ flights, SAA would have to end SA Airlink’s use of its reservation and revenue accounting systems.
The same does not apply to the other feeder carrier, SA Express, which is wholly owned by SAA parent Transnet.
SA Airlink, which bought a 25-year franchise from SAA in 2000, is said not to be unhappy about the development.
“This means Airlink will be free to pursue more lucrative relationships with other airlines that are seeking to open up alliances within a burgeoning Southern Africa market,” said one industry observer.
SA Airlink is known to have had preliminary talks with the likes of the European-based SkyTeam alliance — which is headed by Air France — with a view to growing routes between East and Southern African destinations.
SA Airlink owns 19 aircraft and operates 3400 flights to 27 destinations, carrying around 65000 passengers a month.
SAA dumps an old partner
01 May 2005
Print friendly Send to a friend
ROGER MAKINGS
SOUTH African Airways (SAA) will end its long-standing relationship with feeder carrier SA Airlink.
The national carrier has served notice on its partner of its intention, which will become effective from November.
Both SAA and SA Airlink were tightlipped over the decision this week despite the fact that staff on both carriers are fully aware of the decision.
SAA said the airline “chose not to comment at this stage”.
Rodger Foster, the chief executive of SA Airlink, said: “I can’t comment.”
SA Airlink will have to take on new livery and seek out partnerships with other carriers once it leaves the alliance it has had with SAA and SA Express for about eight years.
This will now make SA Airlink a competitor rather than a partner on the domestic and regional routes it serves.
The reason for the split, according to sources within SAA, which owns 10% of SA Airlink, is that SAA fears questions from its nemesis, the Competitions Commission, over its “anti-competitive” association with SA Airlink.
SAA has the threat of a R1.6-billion fine hanging over its head for giving override incentives to travel agents.
This has yet to be ruled on by the Competition Tribunal.
On top of this, SAA is also facing possible punitive civil suits from its rivals, BA/Comair and Nationwide, in this regard, not to mention further allegations of price collusion.
An SAA source said this week that under its existing relationship with SA Airlink, it prescribed to the feeder carrier what size aircraft it could fly and which routes it could and could not operate.
“We have identified that this could be a problem and be construed as anti-competitive by the commission.”
The source said that although the two airlines could continue their code-share relationship, or keep selling seats on each others’ flights, SAA would have to end SA Airlink’s use of its reservation and revenue accounting systems.
The same does not apply to the other feeder carrier, SA Express, which is wholly owned by SAA parent Transnet.
SA Airlink, which bought a 25-year franchise from SAA in 2000, is said not to be unhappy about the development.
“This means Airlink will be free to pursue more lucrative relationships with other airlines that are seeking to open up alliances within a burgeoning Southern Africa market,” said one industry observer.
SA Airlink is known to have had preliminary talks with the likes of the European-based SkyTeam alliance — which is headed by Air France — with a view to growing routes between East and Southern African destinations.
SA Airlink owns 19 aircraft and operates 3400 flights to 27 destinations, carrying around 65000 passengers a month.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: South Africa
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Will Link survive?
Yep we'll have to wait and find out whats going to happen.
It's been rumored that Link may even pursue a Low-cost carrier type role. Only possible now that the SAA shackles have been broken.
They are already starting up a Link operated Lanseria - Cape Town route on either F28's and or DC9's apparently utilising Airquarius aircraft.
Seems like Rodger's got a plan!
It must be really embarresing for the SAA management, that Link always makes a profit, and SAA have to look to the government to bail them out when they post massive losses.
I've got a funny feeling that Roger is going to kick Airway's butt!
It's been rumored that Link may even pursue a Low-cost carrier type role. Only possible now that the SAA shackles have been broken.
They are already starting up a Link operated Lanseria - Cape Town route on either F28's and or DC9's apparently utilising Airquarius aircraft.
Seems like Rodger's got a plan!
It must be really embarresing for the SAA management, that Link always makes a profit, and SAA have to look to the government to bail them out when they post massive losses.
I've got a funny feeling that Roger is going to kick Airway's butt!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Where they send me
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Symbol
You have your facts backwards: SAA is actually very operationally profitable. The loss came from hedging policies and a lack of good corporate governance. If the government wants to impose unqualified managers and board members on SAA, then they should bail the airline out when those people screw up. Without government interference, including their detrimental EE policies, SAA would be thriving.
SA Airlink, on the other hand, is hopelessly insolvent. They were forced to acquire aircraft by SAA (ERJ135) that are too small and too expensive for the Southern African environment. They have been sucking hind tit on the lease payments ever since they acquired them. Rodger also gambled on the Yamasoukro Agreement being implemented, and that will never happen while SAA is such a behemoth. Other counties airlines would be eaten up by SAA if that was ever ratified. If you work for Airlink, I suggest that you demand full disclosure on the financial condition of all of the companies associated with your operation, not just those that management chooses for you to see. I fear that Airlink will not survive without SAA. I have many friends there and I would suggest that they all start applying to SAX or One Time. Those are the two airlines that, in my opinion, have the brightest future.
I hear that the Airlink pilot union is also in disarray and members are resigning en masse. Not a good time for a split when faced with the above.
SA Airlink, on the other hand, is hopelessly insolvent. They were forced to acquire aircraft by SAA (ERJ135) that are too small and too expensive for the Southern African environment. They have been sucking hind tit on the lease payments ever since they acquired them. Rodger also gambled on the Yamasoukro Agreement being implemented, and that will never happen while SAA is such a behemoth. Other counties airlines would be eaten up by SAA if that was ever ratified. If you work for Airlink, I suggest that you demand full disclosure on the financial condition of all of the companies associated with your operation, not just those that management chooses for you to see. I fear that Airlink will not survive without SAA. I have many friends there and I would suggest that they all start applying to SAX or One Time. Those are the two airlines that, in my opinion, have the brightest future.
I hear that the Airlink pilot union is also in disarray and members are resigning en masse. Not a good time for a split when faced with the above.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: south africa
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i don't know SA Airlinks reason's for dumping SAA. but i know a SA Airlink Captain personally and he said that they dumping them. Not SAA doing the dumping. SA Airlink is turfing SAA out the window.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: South Africa
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Link/Airways split
Hey Toobadsosad,
You've got it just right! Link will close down and Airways will take over the skies of Africa!!
You guys(I presume you fly for Airways!) are going to be in for a serious wake up call! I have recently heard that SAA are negotiating with CAA to validate African pilots' licences - to get 'the numbers' right! Well, if they get that right, then the flood gates will open up to our overborder colleagues and they'll be streaming into your fantastically profitable airline just as fast as your passengers run for cover.
As far as guys leaving Link for the other low-costers is concerned, they'd probably be better off staying with Link to enjoy some of the new-found freedom and probable expansion.
By the way, SAA never forced Link to buy any aircraft, Roger had to get their approval only! I agree with you that they were the wrong tools for the right job, but there's an opinion floating around at the moment that Link is the right place to be right now. I wish I was working for them!
The next few months are definitely going to be interesting.
You've got it just right! Link will close down and Airways will take over the skies of Africa!!
You guys(I presume you fly for Airways!) are going to be in for a serious wake up call! I have recently heard that SAA are negotiating with CAA to validate African pilots' licences - to get 'the numbers' right! Well, if they get that right, then the flood gates will open up to our overborder colleagues and they'll be streaming into your fantastically profitable airline just as fast as your passengers run for cover.
As far as guys leaving Link for the other low-costers is concerned, they'd probably be better off staying with Link to enjoy some of the new-found freedom and probable expansion.
By the way, SAA never forced Link to buy any aircraft, Roger had to get their approval only! I agree with you that they were the wrong tools for the right job, but there's an opinion floating around at the moment that Link is the right place to be right now. I wish I was working for them!
The next few months are definitely going to be interesting.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Where they send me
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Symbol, you gave the exact reason that SAA would never bring in foreign citizens of a non-pale male complexion (SAA loves this term). The media is a very powerful medium, and there is nothing that scares SAA senior management more than bad publicity. Anyway, they are not interested in foreign black pilots. They are barely interested in anyone that isn't a Xhosa. Take a look and see if you can find a black VP or EVP of the last three years that was anything other than a Xhosa.
Registered User *
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Not here anymore
Age: 63
Posts: 591
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A few thoughts.
From what I heard today, immediate plan for Link is not to go low-cost, although it was said that they operated an F28 on Lanseria-Cape Town for the first time today (no capacity restriction?). Don't know about the F28 as I saw a DC9/MD80/2 on approach into Lanseria at last light tonight.
If you look at the Voyager programme and the flights Link does currently, I do believe that in whatever form Link continues, there may just be a codeshare with SAA of some sorts. Lets not forget that scheduled flying to smaller places is a killer if you don't do the right things.
Now that's what I call uncompetitive, but then, without Transnet/SAA, SAX would have been dead meat when the Canadians left.
2BSS, this possibly proves why you comment like you do...Symbol is quite correct in talking about "profit" - the bottom line on the balance sheet - not "operational profit". Won't go into it any further as enough has been said about SAA's "opertional profit" before. One question though, where's SAA's bucks then? Is SARS still collecting SAA's profit? 
To get rid of service delivery that sucks to the "n"th degree?
Exhaust Manifold,
Whoever you are or whoever you know within Link, this was right on the head, BIG TIME. 
2BSS,
The SAAF also sang this song until they decided to "import" Mugaboons to instruct (help us!) because some "young instructors" needed operational time at squadron level.
Just remember, Sh
t flows down, stick around long enough and, like Symbol said,
2BSS, in fact, your last post makes me wonder why any non-Xhosa (or non-Irishman - 
sexism as well then at SAA) would bother about SAA. Suppose the new pax weighing is also to get into line with average Xhosa (or Irish) weights then? Passenger profiling?
From what I heard today, immediate plan for Link is not to go low-cost, although it was said that they operated an F28 on Lanseria-Cape Town for the first time today (no capacity restriction?). Don't know about the F28 as I saw a DC9/MD80/2 on approach into Lanseria at last light tonight.
If you look at the Voyager programme and the flights Link does currently, I do believe that in whatever form Link continues, there may just be a codeshare with SAA of some sorts. Lets not forget that scheduled flying to smaller places is a killer if you don't do the right things.
The same does not apply to the other feeder carrier, SA Express, which is wholly owned by SAA parent Transnet
It must be really embarresing for the SAA management, that Link always makes a profit
You have your facts backwards: SAA is actually very operationally profitable
And exactly why would SA Airlink be dumping SAA?? What would they have to gain by that?
Exhaust Manifold,
Link's been looking for a way to free itself from SAA for a long time.
2BSS,
Anyway, they are not interested in foreign black pilots
They are barely interested in anyone that isn't a Xhosa. Take a look and see if you can find a black VP or EVP of the last three years that was anything other than a Xhosa.
t flows down, stick around long enough and, like Symbol said,
You guys(I presume you fly for Airways!) are going to be in for a serious wake up call!
sexism as well then at SAA) would bother about SAA. Suppose the new pax weighing is also to get into line with average Xhosa (or Irish) weights then? Passenger profiling?
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Symbol......
had to laugh at this...............Yes this rumour has been going around for some time now, the last I heard it was Nigerians coming to fly for SAA
Well if that ever happened, then I guess we have another Zimbabwe on our hands, which would delight the likes of the SAA bashers who are now living overseas and would love to see the whole of South Africa go down the toilet so they can feel better about the choices they made as to where to live and work.............one last word, if that did happen, do you think Comair, 1Time, Nationwide, SAX and your beloved Airlink would be immune from that happening to them, not likely mate
You guys(I presume you fly for Airways!) are going to be in for a serious wake up call! I have recently heard that SAA are negotiating with CAA to validate African pilots' licences - to get 'the numbers' right! Well, if they get that right, then the flood gates will open up to our overborder colleagues and they'll be streaming into your fantastically profitable airline just as fast as your passengers run for cover.
had to laugh at this...............Yes this rumour has been going around for some time now, the last I heard it was Nigerians coming to fly for SAAWell if that ever happened, then I guess we have another Zimbabwe on our hands, which would delight the likes of the SAA bashers who are now living overseas and would love to see the whole of South Africa go down the toilet so they can feel better about the choices they made as to where to live and work.............one last word, if that did happen, do you think Comair, 1Time, Nationwide, SAX and your beloved Airlink would be immune from that happening to them, not likely mate