SAA Cancels a320?
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SAA Cancels a320?
I have just read Transet's annual report, in which it is advised that the A340-300e's and A319's will now be leased rather the purchased.
It also advises that SAA have decided not to proceed with the A320 order "at this time"
Does that mean that it has been cancelled, or is there some other strategy at work.
It also advises that SAA have decided not to proceed with the A320 order "at this time"
Does that mean that it has been cancelled, or is there some other strategy at work.
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Relax johnathan, 126.9's a grumpy old local with a dim view of the world. Please don't rise to the bait. It would be good if we could get back to your question - anyone with any constructive input?
4HP
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126.9's a grumpy old local...
Possibly quite true actually. No, no. In fact it's completely true!
...with a dim view of the world
Not true at all. From up here I have the best view of all, and I would certainly not trade it for any of your views!
---
...and finally:
anyone with any constructive input?
Unless the SAA Board of Directors themselves are posting on this forum, I fail to see how that question can be accurately answered..? In an industry where the rumour monger is king, pure speculation is all that can become of this thread.
Possibly quite true actually. No, no. In fact it's completely true!
...with a dim view of the world
Not true at all. From up here I have the best view of all, and I would certainly not trade it for any of your views!
---
...and finally:
anyone with any constructive input?
Unless the SAA Board of Directors themselves are posting on this forum, I fail to see how that question can be accurately answered..? In an industry where the rumour monger is king, pure speculation is all that can become of this thread.
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Thanks 4HP and Gauteng Pilot!!
I have since read that SAA are cancelling, but they haven't advised Airbus yet (like Airbus doesn't read the news!!). When asked, Airbus said that as far as they are concerned the order is still current!!
Does anyone know if an order for so far ahead (2010) can be binding? If so what would the consequence to SAA be - do they just lose the deposit, or is it more serious.
I remember that when they failed to formally order 777's (for which deposits had been paid), Coleman Andrews got the deposits changed to the "white tail" 744's which were then purchased.
I guess that they now plan to keep the 738's even after the current lease expires.
The manner in which SAA chooses planes seems very haphazard. For my recollection they have made the following bloopers in the last few years;
1. ordered - and cancelled 777's
2. purchased white tail 744's (With GE engines despite RR on the rest of the 744 fleet)
3. sold A320's and leased 738's
4. replaced 738's with A320's and A319's (For fleet commonality)
5. cancelled A320's to keep 738's and A319's - Common fleet???
6. Rumours of selling 744's and buying A380's
These decisions and indecisions must have cost a fortune in lost deposits, hiring and firing staff, training and retraining staff, purchasing and selling simulators, purchase and sales of spares, etc
I GUESS THEY ALSO NEED SOME MECHANISM TO HEDGE PURCHASE DECISIONS AS WELL AS FUEL COSTS (THEIR MANAGEMENT SEEMS FAR MORE FICKLE THEN THE RAND/DOLLAR EXCHANGE RATE) - MAYBE A CLAUSE THAT SAYS IF THEY CHANGE THEIR MIND, THEIR MANAGEMENT OR ANY OTHER WHIM WHICH CAUSES THEM TO WANT DIFFERENT TOYS - THEY CAN TRANSFER THE ORDER TO THE COMPETITION'S PRODUCTS
This company changes management more often then the SA Cricket, Rugby and Soccer teams combined. I vote for Jake White as the next MD. If he can turn a undermotivated beauracratic and nepotistic mess like SA Rugby around, he can surely do it to a simple organisation like SAA!!!
So as to not offend 126.9, does anyone have any opinions or points of view which don't start a vicious and pointless rumour thereby causing an old MATE consternation!!!
I have since read that SAA are cancelling, but they haven't advised Airbus yet (like Airbus doesn't read the news!!). When asked, Airbus said that as far as they are concerned the order is still current!!
Does anyone know if an order for so far ahead (2010) can be binding? If so what would the consequence to SAA be - do they just lose the deposit, or is it more serious.
I remember that when they failed to formally order 777's (for which deposits had been paid), Coleman Andrews got the deposits changed to the "white tail" 744's which were then purchased.
I guess that they now plan to keep the 738's even after the current lease expires.
The manner in which SAA chooses planes seems very haphazard. For my recollection they have made the following bloopers in the last few years;
1. ordered - and cancelled 777's
2. purchased white tail 744's (With GE engines despite RR on the rest of the 744 fleet)
3. sold A320's and leased 738's
4. replaced 738's with A320's and A319's (For fleet commonality)
5. cancelled A320's to keep 738's and A319's - Common fleet???
6. Rumours of selling 744's and buying A380's
These decisions and indecisions must have cost a fortune in lost deposits, hiring and firing staff, training and retraining staff, purchasing and selling simulators, purchase and sales of spares, etc
I GUESS THEY ALSO NEED SOME MECHANISM TO HEDGE PURCHASE DECISIONS AS WELL AS FUEL COSTS (THEIR MANAGEMENT SEEMS FAR MORE FICKLE THEN THE RAND/DOLLAR EXCHANGE RATE) - MAYBE A CLAUSE THAT SAYS IF THEY CHANGE THEIR MIND, THEIR MANAGEMENT OR ANY OTHER WHIM WHICH CAUSES THEM TO WANT DIFFERENT TOYS - THEY CAN TRANSFER THE ORDER TO THE COMPETITION'S PRODUCTS
This company changes management more often then the SA Cricket, Rugby and Soccer teams combined. I vote for Jake White as the next MD. If he can turn a undermotivated beauracratic and nepotistic mess like SA Rugby around, he can surely do it to a simple organisation like SAA!!!
So as to not offend 126.9, does anyone have any opinions or points of view which don't start a vicious and pointless rumour thereby causing an old MATE consternation!!!
Last edited by jonathanm5; 28th Aug 2004 at 22:10.
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SAA is technically bankrupt. The demise of SAA was engineered by Conman Andrews, which is a pity. What makes it worse, is the fact that the then Minister of Trade & Industry, Alec Erwin, supported his appointment, and his R220 million "golden handshake" a coupla years short of the expiration of his contract. R220 million???? One can only but wonder if the extra R20m was'nt couriered to a Cayman Island Bank for some high profile SAA Executive??????
Real sad state of affairs. The newly appointed CEO of SAA has personal problems of his own, just got divorced, and jettd off to the South of France with his "new piece", a young, former beauty queen, so you can just imagine that he won't be thinking of SAA's problems for the next coupla months.
SAA has great potential, but the stubborness of the ANC has dumped it into a huge pit.
Why for crying out loud, can't they just appoint someone who knows aviation, and forget about the political appointments? Beats me!
Real sad state of affairs. The newly appointed CEO of SAA has personal problems of his own, just got divorced, and jettd off to the South of France with his "new piece", a young, former beauty queen, so you can just imagine that he won't be thinking of SAA's problems for the next coupla months.
SAA has great potential, but the stubborness of the ANC has dumped it into a huge pit.
Why for crying out loud, can't they just appoint someone who knows aviation, and forget about the political appointments? Beats me!
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Facts. 15 Billion loss over 4 years, Collective airline experience of the board which has just been fired, less than 10 years, types of aircraft in fleet at the moment, who knows. I pity their training dept.
Worries, none, they have the taxpayer to bail them out. But with Maria Ramos in charge now, is the party over?
Hope so.
Worries, none, they have the taxpayer to bail them out. But with Maria Ramos in charge now, is the party over?
Hope so.
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As I had mentioned before, the taxpayer will fill the void for only so much longer. All the major Business' funded by taxpayers are in trouble. Denel, SAA etc.. Either Private ownership comes about where management is held responsible or they will go away. Another drain on the economy is the Military, new Ships, Submarines, a fleet of new fighters. To defend against who?? Zimbabawe Invasion??
Any Comments??
Any Comments??
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Hey I do not think that we should get too many things mixed up here (Military Contract, SAA etc) Maria Ramos is going to 'downsize the Transnet Head Office. Numbers of R 600M in savings have been mooted and that for about 600 'management staff'. Easy maths to see the average annual income. Don't know what function they performed but seems that they can be cut out and life continues. Why am I not surprised? Obviously this is the whole of Transnet and not only SAA.
The quote during Carte Blanche (about SAA) on Sunday evening went along the lines of the strict discipline and vast experience requirements of the cockpit crew and sadly this does not carry over to management. The chopping and changing of fleet selections and the associated infrastructure has to be enormously damaging to any business. I guess when you do not have to take the responsibility for the action and you shrug your shoulders and laugh off the shareholders, then you can do anything. Even go on holiday with your new squeeze to your villa in the South of France!
The quote during Carte Blanche (about SAA) on Sunday evening went along the lines of the strict discipline and vast experience requirements of the cockpit crew and sadly this does not carry over to management. The chopping and changing of fleet selections and the associated infrastructure has to be enormously damaging to any business. I guess when you do not have to take the responsibility for the action and you shrug your shoulders and laugh off the shareholders, then you can do anything. Even go on holiday with your new squeeze to your villa in the South of France!
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Since we are headed to the Campfire with this one. heres what I mean about Milking the Taxpayer... Although its a bit off the thread, its a sign of the times to come..........
Tax hike is the only answer: Fraser-Moleketi
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The government may be forced to raise taxes in order to pay for the wage demands of public servants, Public Service and Administration Minister Geraldine Fraser-Moleketi said on Tuesday.
Addressing the media in Cape Town after another failed negotiating session with public service unions, Fraser-Moleketi said there would be only two ways of increasing the R28 billion package.
"If we are forced to increase this amount we will have to discuss the issue with the finance minister and either discuss different tax implementation or borrow more money - and we can't do that," she said.
She said that following lengthy discussions on Monday night with union representatives, the state had amended the clauses which made the unions unhappy, but that they still refused to settle.
National Education and Allied Workers Union (Nehawu) spokesman Molantua Molaba said the strike was "irreversible".
"Something serious would have to happen like the state getting more money from Treasury or the unions selling out to their members and that won't happen.
The best they (state) can hope for is the prevention of an indefinite strike," he said.
Sapa
Tax hike is the only answer: Fraser-Moleketi
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The government may be forced to raise taxes in order to pay for the wage demands of public servants, Public Service and Administration Minister Geraldine Fraser-Moleketi said on Tuesday.
Addressing the media in Cape Town after another failed negotiating session with public service unions, Fraser-Moleketi said there would be only two ways of increasing the R28 billion package.
"If we are forced to increase this amount we will have to discuss the issue with the finance minister and either discuss different tax implementation or borrow more money - and we can't do that," she said.
She said that following lengthy discussions on Monday night with union representatives, the state had amended the clauses which made the unions unhappy, but that they still refused to settle.
National Education and Allied Workers Union (Nehawu) spokesman Molantua Molaba said the strike was "irreversible".
"Something serious would have to happen like the state getting more money from Treasury or the unions selling out to their members and that won't happen.
The best they (state) can hope for is the prevention of an indefinite strike," he said.
Sapa
