Tristar in the hands of Russian owner.
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Tristar in the hands of Russian owner.
Anyone know anything about that Russian outfit in RSA that has bought a L10-11 ex GSO. I imagine Tristar freaks will be rolling their eyes at the very thought of Russians playing with sacred equipment. How they will fly it in RSA airspace with the new tighter policeing of foreign operators aircraft, remains a mystery to me. There is a very expensive AD due on the engines, like due last year August. That combined with Russian mechanics working on a western aircraft with out any training, surely wont be acceptable to the CAA?
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The TriStar is a very complex systems aircraft, and is certainly not suited to 'hammer and tong' engineering.
Connie Kalitta found out, big time.
The Russians don't have a chance, IMO.
Connie Kalitta found out, big time.
The Russians don't have a chance, IMO.
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Exactly my point! I dont like the idea of this aircraft flying in RSA airspace (or any other for that matter) while being maintained by un trained Russian mechanics. I dont believe its allowed to just strip out the aircraft willy nilly with out some sort of STC to cover that work. The removal of the forward galley is a structural mod. I wonder if it will occour to them to do a re- weight and re-calculated W&B. I would doubt it, if they are stupid enough to work with un qualified mechanics. The rumor is that they will be doing flights for the SANDF to DRC!
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The Liberian fiasco is far behind us now but Swaziland is rapidly taking its place. You pay your money and you get your aircrafts registration, CofA and Airworthiness certificates no matter the same aircraft is considered scrap. The AOC is issued for a further consideration and as we all know no person that isnt a national/resident of any country may hold an AOC. I do belive that one could get a registration for a space shuttle from the Swazi CAA it would just cost more if they spotted the difference between it and normal aircraft. The RSA CAA should send a firm message and ban these bargain basement aircraft and their pirate operators from our skys before there is a nasty incident.
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Look the Russians kept Mir going for a good 10 years longer then they should have. The russians are nuts and bolts kind of guys. Besides they are not stupid. As for the L-1011 well when its all said and done its an airplane. While I never flown an L-1011, I have ridden in one on several occasions. Besides how you define airworthness, may not be what the Russians determine to be Airworthy. I don't know who bought this airplane, but anybody who can afford to do so, are not as dumb as you would belive. He or they would have gotten the issues of training parts and mantaince all sorted out before the sale was even concluded.
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Besides how you define airworthness, may not be what the Russians determine to be Airworthy.
Just take a look at the number of accidents involving Russian aircraft caused by technical issues vs the number involving western aircraft
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If the tree branch (seen on Friday) shoved in the fan of an engine to prevent it from turning is any thing to go by I doubt the Owner knows any thing. Maybe the Russians thought the engine is the same as an IL-76 ie. when it turns on the ground it causes serious problems, and that is why U will allways see the IL-76 crew put the engine plugs in place on shut down. The company has no tooling and only Russian mechanics and as far as I know the L10-11 maint manuals have never been translated to Russian. These mechanics are ignorantly stripping the aircraft interior including the removal of the fwd galley with no regard to STC's required. Swazi CAA should be bought to book by the over seeing body RSA CAA for allowing this insanity.
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hmmmmm
Looks like we will have to watch out for falling Tristar bits from above.
A bit off topic. Was that for us?......Any news on the DC9 job for spanish speaking pilots? I sent my details to the e-mail you gave me, but no news at all. Also sent you a PM a few weeks ago. If you have any news that would be great. I guess they dont have time to reply to all apps. Maybe you could make a post letting all that made an app. know that the positions are filled or any news you might know.
Anyway cheers all.
A bit off topic. Was that for us?......Any news on the DC9 job for spanish speaking pilots? I sent my details to the e-mail you gave me, but no news at all. Also sent you a PM a few weeks ago. If you have any news that would be great. I guess they dont have time to reply to all apps. Maybe you could make a post letting all that made an app. know that the positions are filled or any news you might know.
Anyway cheers all.
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Russian Maintenance!!!!
Was that for us, after reading your post regarding Russian Maintenance I think that you really have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!!!
I have alot of experience working around Russian Crews and when in comes to Maintenance every Crew I have seen have been extreemly proffesional incomparison with others!!!! By the way did you know that Aeroflot have been Operating both Airbus 310's and Boeing 777's for quite a while now do you think for one second their engineers have not been trained??? I think you need to get your facts straight mate before you go shooting off like you just have!!!!!
I'm sure that the engineers will recieve adequite trainning to deal with the aircraft that the operation intends to operate. I can tell you this much Russian Pilots put alot of faith in their engineers there is usually excellent communication between both where the engineer will properly brief the pilots of the aircraft of the exact condition of that aircraft on any given day. Agreed it is indeed a very different system of running things where by it's not just a signature in a techlog but ontop of which the pilots actually get a proper briefing on how the entire aircraft is operating prior to getting in and flying, I think that is better than some of our own practices don't you?????!!!!! Lets not forget inorder to do this they would need to be qualified on the aircraft!!!! And yes although in some cases language is a bit of a barrier there are always translators that do help out when in comes to reading manuals and going for courses, and then again there are now Russian Engineers that are pretty fluent in the English language now days!!!!
By the way just out of curiosity have the South Africans ever built a Space Station or with one of their OWN Rockets sent a man in to space, because I know that the Russians have sent a South African into space and brought him back in one piece I wonder how the russian maintenance was on that flight!!!!!?????
Was that for us??? Yes this is for you!!!! I rest my case you need to seriously think twice about what you say and get your facts right.
Pete
Edited for language. 4HP
I have alot of experience working around Russian Crews and when in comes to Maintenance every Crew I have seen have been extreemly proffesional incomparison with others!!!! By the way did you know that Aeroflot have been Operating both Airbus 310's and Boeing 777's for quite a while now do you think for one second their engineers have not been trained??? I think you need to get your facts straight mate before you go shooting off like you just have!!!!!
I'm sure that the engineers will recieve adequite trainning to deal with the aircraft that the operation intends to operate. I can tell you this much Russian Pilots put alot of faith in their engineers there is usually excellent communication between both where the engineer will properly brief the pilots of the aircraft of the exact condition of that aircraft on any given day. Agreed it is indeed a very different system of running things where by it's not just a signature in a techlog but ontop of which the pilots actually get a proper briefing on how the entire aircraft is operating prior to getting in and flying, I think that is better than some of our own practices don't you?????!!!!! Lets not forget inorder to do this they would need to be qualified on the aircraft!!!! And yes although in some cases language is a bit of a barrier there are always translators that do help out when in comes to reading manuals and going for courses, and then again there are now Russian Engineers that are pretty fluent in the English language now days!!!!
By the way just out of curiosity have the South Africans ever built a Space Station or with one of their OWN Rockets sent a man in to space, because I know that the Russians have sent a South African into space and brought him back in one piece I wonder how the russian maintenance was on that flight!!!!!?????
Was that for us??? Yes this is for you!!!! I rest my case you need to seriously think twice about what you say and get your facts right.
Pete
Edited for language. 4HP
Last edited by 4HolerPoler; 4th Dec 2004 at 06:08.
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Oh my my! didums. I dont think you are from the same world as the one I have operated in for the past 15 years or so.
If these Russkies are so clever how come their aircraft crash so often? Bearing in mind thats aircraft they know well and have had training on for years one would assume. I am not talking about anything by the way I am "writing" it! A small difference but a difference none the less. Lets hope the Ruskkie mechanics dont make that mistake ie. not knowing the difference between talking and writing. Any way time will tell who is more correct.
If these Russkies are so clever how come their aircraft crash so often? Bearing in mind thats aircraft they know well and have had training on for years one would assume. I am not talking about anything by the way I am "writing" it! A small difference but a difference none the less. Lets hope the Ruskkie mechanics dont make that mistake ie. not knowing the difference between talking and writing. Any way time will tell who is more correct.
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Russians
As far as I have seen Russian aircraft flying around in Africa and Middle-East are "somewhat" lacking in the old maintenace, mainly due to cut-throat competition between the various Russian operators. However many of their pilots and tech-crews are very well trained and experienced in the type of aircraft they operate.
The above does not however exclude the fact that they have serious problems with some of the following:
- Lack of recurrency training on the type operated, some guys not seen Sim or an instructor since early -80's
- Lack of standardisation in operating procedures as well as maintenance procedures.
- Operating using out of date enroute charts and app-plates
- Lack of available spares and tools to correct problems
- Flying with aircraft in total shambles
- Serious problems with reading , writing and understanding English language especially when it comes to ATC and technical language.
These are just to name a few. Guess some of the points can be used to describe many third world carriers.
Regardless I can assure you PETESEVENSEVEN that a small Russian company operating aircraft as complex and demanding as L1011 in Africa just wont make it.
Russian mechanics with limited english (Ok they may speak excellent english) but no experience on the L1011.
Add to that the lack of spare parts (And prices for thosre spares available) on the market. They will either crash it or brake it in just no time.
We operated L1011 for quite a few years and know the problems involved in operating the aircraft type. We had engineers with years and years of experience on the type... There is a reason why the aircraft is no longer in our fleet.
So I guess dear Pete, that it is you that really do not have "No idea what you are talking about". ( Since you like to use that expression).
AD
The above does not however exclude the fact that they have serious problems with some of the following:
- Lack of recurrency training on the type operated, some guys not seen Sim or an instructor since early -80's
- Lack of standardisation in operating procedures as well as maintenance procedures.
- Operating using out of date enroute charts and app-plates
- Lack of available spares and tools to correct problems
- Flying with aircraft in total shambles
- Serious problems with reading , writing and understanding English language especially when it comes to ATC and technical language.
These are just to name a few. Guess some of the points can be used to describe many third world carriers.
Regardless I can assure you PETESEVENSEVEN that a small Russian company operating aircraft as complex and demanding as L1011 in Africa just wont make it.
Russian mechanics with limited english (Ok they may speak excellent english) but no experience on the L1011.
Add to that the lack of spare parts (And prices for thosre spares available) on the market. They will either crash it or brake it in just no time.
We operated L1011 for quite a few years and know the problems involved in operating the aircraft type. We had engineers with years and years of experience on the type... There is a reason why the aircraft is no longer in our fleet.
So I guess dear Pete, that it is you that really do not have "No idea what you are talking about". ( Since you like to use that expression).
AD
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Pratsevenseven
What a prat Pete. 
So what if there are some "proffesional" Russians out there working on ex-Soviet aircraft.
These particular Russians appear to be doing illegal maintenance. Bad, but especially so on what is a very complex Western aircraft, on what maybe a shoestring budget. Doesn't bode very well.
So what if there are some "proffesional" Russians out there working on ex-Soviet aircraft.
These particular Russians appear to be doing illegal maintenance. Bad, but especially so on what is a very complex Western aircraft, on what maybe a shoestring budget. Doesn't bode very well.
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As predicted the Russian owners of 3D-AAB were unable to fool the Swazi CAA into issuing a CofA for their un airworthy Tristar and it has been de registered (9Q-CVD) and they are now fooling the DRC CAA for how long it remains to be seen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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"If these Russkies are so clever how come their aircraft crash so often?"
Maybe because they do sell cheaper aircraft in Africa and the African operators abuse them and neglect them. Fact is the Russkies build an airplane that still flies even after typical African and third world abuse. If a third world operator abuses a Boeing and it crashes is Boeing to blame? I saw an AN 32 repaired with shopwindow aluminum after a local pilot pulled the gear before liftoff and it still flew. When the nose gear collapsed Antonov was blamed. During the repair I was privelaged to work with a very professional Russian crew including a pilot who admitted that he had to work on the aircraft in the workshop as part of his pilot training.
The Russian Soyuz still flies after many years of use
( transporting yanks and their bits ) while the wonderful Space Shuttle remains grounded!!
Whose aircraft defend our forests from fire?
Maybe because they do sell cheaper aircraft in Africa and the African operators abuse them and neglect them. Fact is the Russkies build an airplane that still flies even after typical African and third world abuse. If a third world operator abuses a Boeing and it crashes is Boeing to blame? I saw an AN 32 repaired with shopwindow aluminum after a local pilot pulled the gear before liftoff and it still flew. When the nose gear collapsed Antonov was blamed. During the repair I was privelaged to work with a very professional Russian crew including a pilot who admitted that he had to work on the aircraft in the workshop as part of his pilot training.
The Russian Soyuz still flies after many years of use
( transporting yanks and their bits ) while the wonderful Space Shuttle remains grounded!!
Whose aircraft defend our forests from fire?
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My Point Exactly!!!!
Thank you Kennel Keeper for that!!!
I was beggining to think I was a right idiot there for a second!!!!
The fact of the matter is that its the operators that abuse the russian machines because they are built to last under extreeme conditions which they do very well, and because of this the operators take advantage of this and stretch things!!!!
Also we have to keep in mind that spares are now becoming pretty few and far between since the collapse of the Soviet Union. And I'm of the opinion that it's extreemly professional individuals that maintain these aircraft under great duress and manage to keep them flying in an Extreemly hard african environment with no spares!!!! That makes them pretty good I would say!!!!
We could Take Tanzania for example!!! If you look at the statistics there has been a Crash every month in this year all but one have been aircraft of Western Make including 3 PT-6 engine failures, and all are being maintained by western European trained Engineers, as far as I know!!!!
The fact that they cant get this TriStar registerd isn't the fault of the Russian Engineers is it!!!????? I would call that more of an administration problem!!!
But thats just me
Pete!!!!
I was beggining to think I was a right idiot there for a second!!!!
The fact of the matter is that its the operators that abuse the russian machines because they are built to last under extreeme conditions which they do very well, and because of this the operators take advantage of this and stretch things!!!!
Also we have to keep in mind that spares are now becoming pretty few and far between since the collapse of the Soviet Union. And I'm of the opinion that it's extreemly professional individuals that maintain these aircraft under great duress and manage to keep them flying in an Extreemly hard african environment with no spares!!!! That makes them pretty good I would say!!!!
We could Take Tanzania for example!!! If you look at the statistics there has been a Crash every month in this year all but one have been aircraft of Western Make including 3 PT-6 engine failures, and all are being maintained by western European trained Engineers, as far as I know!!!!
The fact that they cant get this TriStar registerd isn't the fault of the Russian Engineers is it!!!????? I would call that more of an administration problem!!!
But thats just me
Pete!!!!
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From reading the last two post I wonder if the "POSTERS" are for real. The aircraft was not given a CofA because it was not airworthy due to outstanding AD's on the engines which the owners and technicians chose not to embody!!! Nothing to do with admin all to do with crookery and poor understanding of western rules and regs.
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Question????
To Mr. Napoleon
Since when do the Technicians get a say in what management dictates???
That would be a first!!!!
Good on you mate!!!!!
Now we are talking of a really perfect world!!!!
Could I send in a CV PLEEEEEESE!!!
Language edited. 4HP
Pete!!!
Since when do the Technicians get a say in what management dictates???
That would be a first!!!!
Good on you mate!!!!!
Now we are talking of a really perfect world!!!!
Could I send in a CV PLEEEEEESE!!!
Language edited. 4HP
Pete!!!
Last edited by 4HolerPoler; 4th Dec 2004 at 22:58.