Weird Edelweiss 340 TO...
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Weird Edelweiss 340 TO...
https://streamable.com/a8p5hl
Whats happened here...some windshear perhaps..??
My apologies for the "neck pain" view...
Whats happened here...some windshear perhaps..??
My apologies for the "neck pain" view...
Hmmm - and I thought "settling with power" only happened with rotorcraft.
I seem to see a slight decrease in pitch attitude just before the settling, which suggests to me either a momentary lapse in pilot awareness, or a stick-shaker or stall warning that led the pilot(s) to reduce back-pressure a bit.
Although with Airbus, it could have been a control-law intervention as well. "Don't DO that! (overrotate)." Or, of course, a slight error in Weight/VR/Trim calculation.
Can't see the elevators move significantly, however, at that moment.
In any event, on the plus side, they managed to avoid a tail strike (twice - in one takeoff).
I seem to see a slight decrease in pitch attitude just before the settling, which suggests to me either a momentary lapse in pilot awareness, or a stick-shaker or stall warning that led the pilot(s) to reduce back-pressure a bit.
Although with Airbus, it could have been a control-law intervention as well. "Don't DO that! (overrotate)." Or, of course, a slight error in Weight/VR/Trim calculation.
Can't see the elevators move significantly, however, at that moment.
In any event, on the plus side, they managed to avoid a tail strike (twice - in one takeoff).
Only half a speed-brake
That is very interesting, on an airplane that size.
pattern_is_full, Are you referring to some pitch limiter at rotation, with the authority to sink? I assumed those were only fitted to JD's....
pattern_is_full, Are you referring to some pitch limiter at rotation, with the authority to sink? I assumed those were only fitted to JD's....
Looking at the video it seems that the MLG actually touches ground for a moment. Elsewhere a tailwind gust was suggested, but looking at the windsock and chimney smoke in the distance, there appears to be no significant wind. Engine sound pretty normal for full thrust setting, rotation very sluggish, and the nose drops immediately after elevators return to neutral. I'd suspect W/B issues here (or mistrim) rather than any incorrect bug settings. Not the first time a container or two that was supposed to be in the rear hold ended up front...
Here is the video without neck pain
Here is the video without neck pain
pattern_is_full, Are you referring to some pitch limiter at rotation, with the authority to sink? I assumed those were only fitted to JD's....
But I don't know when that is active or inhibited at what altitude and in what phase(s) of flight. Never actually flown Airbus-style.
It looks to me that PF, having pitched up at rotation, released the side-stick to neutral before Normal Law had blended in. So the aircraft started returning to level pitch, but then PF realised and re-applied pitch up.
There are about three or four points during the take-off and initial climb where the pitch goes up then down again. Aircraft seems to be very heavy. Possibly an F/O new to large very heavy Airbus' and not used to the slow rotation and unstick. Or a side-stick problem, stuck in Direct Law, or CG badly wrong ?
There are about three or four points during the take-off and initial climb where the pitch goes up then down again. Aircraft seems to be very heavy. Possibly an F/O new to large very heavy Airbus' and not used to the slow rotation and unstick. Or a side-stick problem, stuck in Direct Law, or CG badly wrong ?
Seems pretty normal for a 340 near/at or possibly above MTW.
More seriously will this be considered as an incident warranting investing ?
More seriously will this be considered as an incident warranting investing ?
Last edited by magyar_flyer; 8th Apr 2024 at 16:47.
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Crew reported tailwind at rotation:
Airbus Windshear Escape Actions:
In the old days we were taught that when the Airbus types encountered windshear after V1, it was announced by voice alert.
The immediate actions were to select TOGA thrust and follow the SRS pitch command orders using full backstick if necessary.
In this particular case it appears that the backstick input went to zero (instead of full up) allowing a downward velocity vector and ground contact.
Maybe the up to date procedures have changed?
In the old days we were taught that when the Airbus types encountered windshear after V1, it was announced by voice alert.
The immediate actions were to select TOGA thrust and follow the SRS pitch command orders using full backstick if necessary.
In this particular case it appears that the backstick input went to zero (instead of full up) allowing a downward velocity vector and ground contact.
Maybe the up to date procedures have changed?
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Airbus Windshear Escape Actions:
In the old days we were taught that when the Airbus types encountered windshear after V1, it was announced by voice alert.
The immediate actions were to select TOGA thrust and follow the SRS pitch command orders using full backstick if necessary.
In this particular case it appears that the backstick input went to zero (instead of full up) allowing a downward velocity vector and ground contact.
Maybe the up to date procedures have changed?
In the old days we were taught that when the Airbus types encountered windshear after V1, it was announced by voice alert.
The immediate actions were to select TOGA thrust and follow the SRS pitch command orders using full backstick if necessary.
In this particular case it appears that the backstick input went to zero (instead of full up) allowing a downward velocity vector and ground contact.
Maybe the up to date procedures have changed?
given the stage of flight though the reactive windshear call-outs would likely have been inhibited.(50feet or 3s after lift off)
Crossing runway and sudden tailwind. Was there a short takeoff on the crossing runway? Then they migh have encountered the wake from the takeoff (looks similar to the RAM 737 in Frankfurt with overflying landing traffic)
Originally Posted by 3Greens
given the stage of flight though the reactive windshear call-outs would likely have been inhibited.(50feet or 3s after lift off)
given the stage of flight though the reactive windshear call-outs would likely have been inhibited.(50feet or 3s after lift off)
Isn't the takeoff roll, rotation and initial climb exactly the time when a crew would want to be warned of an actual windshear?
And in this case the crew reported that they had windshear at rotation.
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Can you please check if the reactive windshear warning is inhibited?
Isn't the takeoff roll, rotation and initial climb exactly the time when a crew would want to be warned of an actual windshear?
And in this case the crew reported that they had windshear at rotation.
Isn't the takeoff roll, rotation and initial climb exactly the time when a crew would want to be warned of an actual windshear?
And in this case the crew reported that they had windshear at rotation.
On Airbus, windshear warnings are inhibited on the take off roll.
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I can't help but think this might be an underload performance calculation error like Emirates in Melbourne. Hopefully if that's the case there will be a report so we can all learn something.
Airbus Windshear Escape Actions:
In the old days we were taught that when the Airbus types encountered windshear after V1, it was announced by voice alert.
The immediate actions were to select TOGA thrust and follow the SRS pitch command orders using full backstick if necessary.
In this particular case it appears that the backstick input went to zero (instead of full up) allowing a downward velocity vector and ground contact.
Maybe the up to date procedures have changed?
In the old days we were taught that when the Airbus types encountered windshear after V1, it was announced by voice alert.
The immediate actions were to select TOGA thrust and follow the SRS pitch command orders using full backstick if necessary.
In this particular case it appears that the backstick input went to zero (instead of full up) allowing a downward velocity vector and ground contact.
Maybe the up to date procedures have changed?
Very good idea surely.
