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SWA 737 Cuba to Ft Lauderdale smoke, engine out, slides deployed

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SWA 737 Cuba to Ft Lauderdale smoke, engine out, slides deployed

Old 6th Mar 2023, 18:22
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SWA 737 Cuba to Ft Lauderdale smoke, engine out, slides deployed

https://nypost.com/2023/03/06/southw...turns-to-cuba/

Did a quick search didn't see this posted. The O2 masks did not deploy, looks like a pretty big CF. Landed and evac safely back in Cuba. I didn't know we had direct flights from Cuba to US.
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 19:07
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 20:54
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Originally Posted by ethicalconundrum
https://nypost.com/2023/03/06/southw...turns-to-cuba/

Did a quick search didn't see this posted. The O2 masks did not deploy, looks like a pretty big CF. Landed and evac safely back in Cuba. I didn't know we had direct flights from Cuba to US.

How to demonstrate you’re not a pilot without saying it. Why would the 02 masks deploy for smoke in the cabin ?

US airlines fly to Cuba. And have done so for years. The location in your profile makes absolute sense now.
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 21:23
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Originally Posted by JPJP
How to demonstrate you’re not a pilot without saying it. Why would the 02 masks deploy for smoke in the cabin ?

US airlines fly to Cuba. And have done so for years. The location in your profile makes absolute sense now.
Really? One who flies private planes is 'not a pilot'. Glad I was able to catch your entitled response in time. And, being from Texas is a problem too? Oozing with entitlement, and elitism. Wouldn't life saving O2 be useful when people are gagging/choking on smoke? Hmmmmm, I guess the pointy end people really do consider us 'meat sacks in back'. Eff all of them. They don't need air! (Oh - in case you didn't know, there are duplicate guarded switches for manual deployment of the O2 on ALL airliners built since 1998, due to another pointy headed pilot mistake)

Edit; looky what I found!

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Old 6th Mar 2023, 21:31
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BBC news version:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64842270

"Nobody could breathe," Marc Antonio, a passenger on the flight told NBC's Early TODAY show. "It was burning so much in the lungs."
Could be a reason to deploy oxygen.

​​​​​​​Nobody was hurt.
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 22:17
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Originally Posted by ethicalconundrum
(Oh - in case you didn't know, there are duplicate guarded switches for manual deployment of the O2 on ALL airliners built since 1998)
Could you point out in the photo you supplied where the ‘duplicate’ switches are?
The Manual switch is the backup for the ‘Automatic Deployment’ function in the event of loss of cabin pressure.

Oxygen masks are NOT deployed for fire/smoke events. The masks do not seal and allow ambient air to circulate within.
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 23:29
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Originally Posted by ethicalconundrum
Really? One who flies private planes is 'not a pilot'. Glad I was able to catch your entitled response in time. And, being from Texas is a problem too? Oozing with entitlement, and elitism. Wouldn't life saving O2 be useful when people are gagging/choking on smoke? Hmmmmm, I guess the pointy end people really do consider us 'meat sacks in back'. Eff all of them. They don't need air! (Oh - in case you didn't know, there are duplicate guarded switches for manual deployment of the O2 on ALL airliners built since 1998, due to another pointy headed pilot mistake)

Edit; looky what I found!
This has been one of those epic laughable moments Where you try to explain yourself like an expert but you have absolutely 0 knowledge about the topic.

In case of smoke cabin mask are USELESS are the smoke will be mixed within the mask. You'll need positive pressure, which is not the case, to be able to breath without smoke. You're welcome. Btw: no double switch, it's a single guarded one in case of malfunction. You're welcome x2.

Aside from this useless explanation, it's Cuba... Do you expect people following what they're being told? Thanks God they left the aircraft...

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Old 7th Mar 2023, 00:01
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Pumping more O2 into the cabin when there is a fire is not desirable either.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 00:33
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<sarcasm>Sure - cut off oxygen from the fire - that's the best approach. </sarcasm>

Any displacement of toxic/poisonous fumes from the lungs of people is probably a good thing. The oxygen flow from the generators is so low compared to the volume of air in the cabin that not dying of lung damage is worth that change.

The fire is out in the engine coming in the normal ventilation supply and unaffected by cabin oxygen levels and that supply should have been shut off ASAP.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 00:42
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Except that your QRH will probably say to cut off or not deploy pax O2 supply in case of smoke in the cabin, it's at the start of the list for my type. That is to restrict any excess O2 that the fire could use to intensify, any fire within the cabin is a real emergency as there is limited ability to fight it, smoke and fumes builds up rapidly, there is usually an emergency ventilation procedure you can use once the fire is extinguished. There have been cases where a smoldering fire has raged when the exits were opened as it introduced more O2 from outside air. Remember the cabin crew only have a couple of BCFs or such for less than 1 minute of fire fighting, you don't want any excess fuel or O2 added no matter how small the amount. Engine failure/fire should be limited smoke, I've had fumes in the cabin from various engine related problems from electrical to oil vapor, it's nasty and shutting off the source or bleed will stop it pretty fast.

FAs have some portable oxygen for those that are struggling.

Probably good to remember that a few lung issues is better than the fire spreading and the aircraft being lost. Once on the ground Evac ASAP if it's that bad.

I think some form of smoke hood/mask should be carried on airliners similar to life jackets. Even if it just provides some filter and no O2 it's better than nothing.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 01:20
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Smoke n' Oh Too

Ethical, what the responding post was really trying to say is, that:
  • OEM NNCL's and airline SOP's do not direct the use of the oxygen system for smoke events, as their design provides for a "Continuous Flow Passenger Oxygen Mask Assembly" to be dropped down in the event of loss of cabin pressure. The design takes a limited amount of O2 from either a regulated supply air bottle, and meters a limited amount into a bladder that then provides O2 to the user on inhalation, and is designed to have exhalation to atmosphere. The limited flow rate requires the addition of additional air from atmosphere to be able to be drawn in to give sufficient volume of air to meet a high demand, such as when the pax suddenly see a jungle of masks coming out of the overhead, feel the aircraft commence a fairly rapid descent and other wise get a chance to recall what the flight attendants were describing in that interminable period from getting on the plane and getting airborne. The fact that they mix air source means they are of limited to no value in smoke conditions.
  • That the FAA and other NAA's spent considerable time assessing the use of PBE systems for smoke protection, and have generally concluded that they would not be particularly effective for airline use, for the in-flight smoke case, and would likely delay egress of an aircraft in the event of an ground evacuation. To this, I am less convinced, however the airlines also object to the cost, maintenance, and procedural issues related to PBE for the passengers. The cost is not a major factor, small flat pack charcoal activated items that are close to the form factor of a fat surgical mask, with a head cover, small vision area, and activated charcoal filtration and an expulsion valve were available for less than 5USD each, (I used to carry them in my bags 25 years ago for hotel and cabin use...) at present the latest versions are up around 30USD/ea, but take up more volume, and are good for up to 60 minutes purportedly, vs the 20 minutes from the flat pack ones that existed previously. Problem with smoke is, by the time people have reacted, it can be too late to avoid incapacitation to react... But, I carry my own...
  • As far as Texas goes, messing' with Texas is probably a thing of jest, y'all take the lone star seriously, and y'all got guns, lots of guns, big n' small, but mainly, lots of them.



Activated carbon surgical, & N95 type masks are available, and they are cheap, they would however require additional repackaging and control to be provided. Would they work? They do remove CO and other toxic substances, and they also remove particulates. They would give a measure of protection in some cabin smoke conditions.


Soeroso NN, Intan TK, Ichwan M, Fadlurrahman MH, Ananda FR. Four-type of Masks and its Effectiveness Based on Reduced Level of Expiratory Carbon-monoxide. Med Arch. 2020 Oct;74(5):342-345.


Last edited by fdr; 7th Mar 2023 at 04:14.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 02:10
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If it is known that the cabin smoke is coming from the engine bleed, is there any real concern that deploying the oxygen mask could make matters worse?

If you were knowledgeable of the system, is it possible to filter the ambient air inlet to the mask with light closing, or a napkin, to give your self a fighting chance by increasing the ratio of oxygen to smoke?

Just asking.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 03:04
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Originally Posted by 43Inches
Except that your QRH will probably say to cut off or not deploy pax O2 supply in case of smoke in the cabin, it's at the start of the list for my type. That is to restrict any excess O2 that the fire could use to intensify, any fire within the cabin is a real emergency as there is limited ability to fight it, smoke and fumes builds up rapidly, there is usually an emergency ventilation procedure you can use once the fire is extinguished. There have been cases where a smoldering fire has raged when the exits were opened as it introduced more O2 from outside air. Remember the cabin crew only have a couple of BCFs or such for less than 1 minute of fire fighting, you don't want any excess fuel or O2 added no matter how small the amount. Engine failure/fire should be limited smoke, I've had fumes in the cabin from various engine related problems from electrical to oil vapor, it's nasty and shutting off the source or bleed will stop it pretty fast.

FAs have some portable oxygen for those that are struggling.

Probably good to remember that a few lung issues is better than the fire spreading and the aircraft being lost. Once on the ground Evac ASAP if it's that bad.

I think some form of smoke hood/mask should be carried on airliners similar to life jackets. Even if it just provides some filter and no O2 it's better than nothing.
Not arguing but it is surprising this is still the case after what happened to that Varig 707 at Paris? albeit a long time ago.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 05:18
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Closing off the engine air bleed and opening the cabin bleed would drop the air pressure and evacuate the majority of the contaminated air allowing the air masks to drop and become the majority of the O2 supply to passengers while cutting the toxins.

There should be smoke detection in the ventilation system to automatically close the supply doors so smoke cannot make it to the cabin from the affected engine.

Varig Flight 820 - what a nightmare.

If the fire is held back by lack of oxygen then everyone is dead already. It will have moved to primarily carbon monoxide production along with heavy, choking soot.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 05:37
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Just follow the Checklists!
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 10:02
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One row of O2 masks was apparently deployed, as seen in the video from the NY Post link. Did the passengers open that mask container?
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 14:57
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I met an NTSB investigator who said they carried a trash bag with them on flights so they could grab a bag full of fresh air to breath and buy time if smoke or noxious fumes filled the cabin. Don’t know if they ever had to do so. Not sure how well it would work either, or maybe they developed cautious behavior due to their job.

They also said that pilots would often let them get a good look from the air as they were arriving to let them get a better understanding of the scene.
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Old 8th Mar 2023, 15:38
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Originally Posted by visibility3miles
I met an NTSB investigator who said they carried a trash bag with them on flights so they could grab a bag full of fresh air to breath and buy time if smoke or noxious fumes filled the cabin. Don’t know if they ever had to do so. Not sure how well it would work either, or maybe they developed cautious behavior due to their job.

They also said that pilots would often let them get a good look from the air as they were arriving to let them get a better understanding of the scene.
Haven't any of you played with trash bags over your head as kids? You definitely can get a few minutes out of a trash bag. It can also help you escape a building fire if you're only way out is through smoke. But this only works if you have an exact plan.
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Old 8th Mar 2023, 20:53
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Just curious how it works exactly. If you keep a large trash bag filled with air in the cabin, where do you store it? The CC are usually vehement to prevent storage in any of the aisles, where it would otherwise be most practical in terms of having enough space.
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Old 8th Mar 2023, 23:09
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Originally Posted by Euclideanplane
Just curious how it works exactly. If you keep a large trash bag filled with air in the cabin, where do you store it? The CC are usually vehement to prevent storage in any of the aisles, where it would otherwise be most practical in terms of having enough space.
You would pull the bag out when needed and fill it with cabin air before the cabin fills with smoke
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