SWA 737 Cuba to Ft Lauderdale smoke, engine out, slides deployed
https://nypost.com/2023/03/06/southw...turns-to-cuba/
Did a quick search didn't see this posted. The O2 masks did not deploy, looks like a pretty big CF. Landed and evac safely back in Cuba. I didn't know we had direct flights from Cuba to US. |
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Originally Posted by ethicalconundrum
(Post 11396635)
https://nypost.com/2023/03/06/southw...turns-to-cuba/
Did a quick search didn't see this posted. The O2 masks did not deploy, looks like a pretty big CF. Landed and evac safely back in Cuba. I didn't know we had direct flights from Cuba to US. How to demonstrate you’re not a pilot without saying it. Why would the 02 masks deploy for smoke in the cabin ? US airlines fly to Cuba. And have done so for years. The location in your profile makes absolute sense now. |
Originally Posted by JPJP
(Post 11396698)
How to demonstrate you’re not a pilot without saying it. Why would the 02 masks deploy for smoke in the cabin ?
US airlines fly to Cuba. And have done so for years. The location in your profile makes absolute sense now. Edit; looky what I found! https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....738ef04d33.jpg |
BBC news version:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64842270 "Nobody could breathe," Marc Antonio, a passenger on the flight told NBC's Early TODAY show. "It was burning so much in the lungs." Nobody was hurt. |
Originally Posted by ethicalconundrum
(Post 11396713)
(Oh - in case you didn't know, there are duplicate guarded switches for manual deployment of the O2 on ALL airliners built since 1998)
The Manual switch is the backup for the ‘Automatic Deployment’ function in the event of loss of cabin pressure. Oxygen masks are NOT deployed for fire/smoke events. The masks do not seal and allow ambient air to circulate within. |
Originally Posted by ethicalconundrum
(Post 11396713)
Really? One who flies private planes is 'not a pilot'. Glad I was able to catch your entitled response in time. And, being from Texas is a problem too? Oozing with entitlement, and elitism. Wouldn't life saving O2 be useful when people are gagging/choking on smoke? Hmmmmm, I guess the pointy end people really do consider us 'meat sacks in back'. :p Eff all of them. They don't need air! (Oh - in case you didn't know, there are duplicate guarded switches for manual deployment of the O2 on ALL airliners built since 1998, due to another pointy headed pilot mistake)
Edit; looky what I found! https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....738ef04d33.jpg In case of smoke cabin mask are USELESS are the smoke will be mixed within the mask. You'll need positive pressure, which is not the case, to be able to breath without smoke. You're welcome. Btw: no double switch, it's a single guarded one in case of malfunction. You're welcome x2. Aside from this useless explanation, it's Cuba... Do you expect people following what they're being told? Thanks God they left the aircraft... |
Pumping more O2 into the cabin when there is a fire is not desirable either.
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<sarcasm>Sure - cut off oxygen from the fire - that's the best approach. </sarcasm>
Any displacement of toxic/poisonous fumes from the lungs of people is probably a good thing. The oxygen flow from the generators is so low compared to the volume of air in the cabin that not dying of lung damage is worth that change. The fire is out in the engine coming in the normal ventilation supply and unaffected by cabin oxygen levels and that supply should have been shut off ASAP. |
Except that your QRH will probably say to cut off or not deploy pax O2 supply in case of smoke in the cabin, it's at the start of the list for my type. That is to restrict any excess O2 that the fire could use to intensify, any fire within the cabin is a real emergency as there is limited ability to fight it, smoke and fumes builds up rapidly, there is usually an emergency ventilation procedure you can use once the fire is extinguished. There have been cases where a smoldering fire has raged when the exits were opened as it introduced more O2 from outside air. Remember the cabin crew only have a couple of BCFs or such for less than 1 minute of fire fighting, you don't want any excess fuel or O2 added no matter how small the amount. Engine failure/fire should be limited smoke, I've had fumes in the cabin from various engine related problems from electrical to oil vapor, it's nasty and shutting off the source or bleed will stop it pretty fast.
FAs have some portable oxygen for those that are struggling. Probably good to remember that a few lung issues is better than the fire spreading and the aircraft being lost. Once on the ground Evac ASAP if it's that bad. I think some form of smoke hood/mask should be carried on airliners similar to life jackets. Even if it just provides some filter and no O2 it's better than nothing. |
Smoke n' Oh Too
Ethical, what the responding post was really trying to say is, that:
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8cad8fc3f5.png Activated carbon surgical, & N95 type masks are available, and they are cheap, they would however require additional repackaging and control to be provided. Would they work? They do remove CO and other toxic substances, and they also remove particulates. They would give a measure of protection in some cabin smoke conditions. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e00b065eaa.png Soeroso NN, Intan TK, Ichwan M, Fadlurrahman MH, Ananda FR. Four-type of Masks and its Effectiveness Based on Reduced Level of Expiratory Carbon-monoxide. Med Arch. 2020 Oct;74(5):342-345. |
If it is known that the cabin smoke is coming from the engine bleed, is there any real concern that deploying the oxygen mask could make matters worse?
If you were knowledgeable of the system, is it possible to filter the ambient air inlet to the mask with light closing, or a napkin, to give your self a fighting chance by increasing the ratio of oxygen to smoke? Just asking. |
Originally Posted by 43Inches
(Post 11396787)
Except that your QRH will probably say to cut off or not deploy pax O2 supply in case of smoke in the cabin, it's at the start of the list for my type. That is to restrict any excess O2 that the fire could use to intensify, any fire within the cabin is a real emergency as there is limited ability to fight it, smoke and fumes builds up rapidly, there is usually an emergency ventilation procedure you can use once the fire is extinguished. There have been cases where a smoldering fire has raged when the exits were opened as it introduced more O2 from outside air. Remember the cabin crew only have a couple of BCFs or such for less than 1 minute of fire fighting, you don't want any excess fuel or O2 added no matter how small the amount. Engine failure/fire should be limited smoke, I've had fumes in the cabin from various engine related problems from electrical to oil vapor, it's nasty and shutting off the source or bleed will stop it pretty fast.
FAs have some portable oxygen for those that are struggling. Probably good to remember that a few lung issues is better than the fire spreading and the aircraft being lost. Once on the ground Evac ASAP if it's that bad. I think some form of smoke hood/mask should be carried on airliners similar to life jackets. Even if it just provides some filter and no O2 it's better than nothing. |
Closing off the engine air bleed and opening the cabin bleed would drop the air pressure and evacuate the majority of the contaminated air allowing the air masks to drop and become the majority of the O2 supply to passengers while cutting the toxins.
There should be smoke detection in the ventilation system to automatically close the supply doors so smoke cannot make it to the cabin from the affected engine. Varig Flight 820 - what a nightmare. If the fire is held back by lack of oxygen then everyone is dead already. It will have moved to primarily carbon monoxide production along with heavy, choking soot. |
Just follow the Checklists!
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One row of O2 masks was apparently deployed, as seen in the video from the NY Post link. Did the passengers open that mask container?
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I met an NTSB investigator who said they carried a trash bag with them on flights so they could grab a bag full of fresh air to breath and buy time if smoke or noxious fumes filled the cabin. Don’t know if they ever had to do so. Not sure how well it would work either, or maybe they developed cautious behavior due to their job.
They also said that pilots would often let them get a good look from the air as they were arriving to let them get a better understanding of the scene. |
Originally Posted by visibility3miles
(Post 11397098)
I met an NTSB investigator who said they carried a trash bag with them on flights so they could grab a bag full of fresh air to breath and buy time if smoke or noxious fumes filled the cabin. Don’t know if they ever had to do so. Not sure how well it would work either, or maybe they developed cautious behavior due to their job.
They also said that pilots would often let them get a good look from the air as they were arriving to let them get a better understanding of the scene. |
Just curious how it works exactly. If you keep a large trash bag filled with air in the cabin, where do you store it? The CC are usually vehement to prevent storage in any of the aisles, where it would otherwise be most practical in terms of having enough space.
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Originally Posted by Euclideanplane
(Post 11397853)
Just curious how it works exactly. If you keep a large trash bag filled with air in the cabin, where do you store it? The CC are usually vehement to prevent storage in any of the aisles, where it would otherwise be most practical in terms of having enough space.
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