SWA 737 Cuba to Ft Lauderdale smoke, engine out, slides deployed

[megan]

Southwest said in a statement that the Boeing suffered serious bird strike damage to an engine and the aircraft’s nose shortly after takeoff.

[ethicalconundrum]

Originally Posted by WhatShortage

This has been one of those epic laughable moments Where you try to explain yourself like an expert but you have absolutely 0 knowledge about the topic.

In case of smoke cabin mask are USELESS are the smoke will be mixed within the mask. You'll need positive pressure, which is not the case, to be able to breath without smoke. You're welcome. Btw: no double switch, it's a single guarded one in case of malfunction. You're welcome x2.

Aside from this useless explanation, it's Cuba... Do you expect people following what they're being told? Thanks God they left the aircraft...

​

Originally Posted by 43Inches

Pumping more O2 into the cabin when there is a fire is not desirable either.

So I had to do some looking into this before responding. We have a bunch of advice, from people that should know, and it seems to boil down to two discrete and opposing POV. On one hand, we have the 'there will be no value because there is no pressure differential and the O2 masks are useless'. We have the other group which warn of pumping additional O2 to the air and smoke in the cabin. In some other cases we have a presumed 'fire' in the cabin. I also called my long time buddy retired from AA and asked him about it, and he gave me what he considers his op-ed. It basically came down to 'how much and for how long' was the smoke present? This seemed a bit evasive, so I asked him to read the article on the SWA plane. He said in this case, he would follow the QRH for smoke in the cabin. And, from that he could find no reference to deploying the O2 masks. Given it didn't exist in his Airbus book he would not have deployed them either.

I then took a primer on O2 generators and did find there was positive pressure in the O2 gen, regulator, and canula that provides O2 to the pax. It's not much, but there is slightly more pressure in all cases when the O2 is deployed. Which becomes the two-pronged issue of adding O2 to the potential for fire(not good, even if there was no fire) or giving the pax life-saving O2 while they are choking on the smoke filled air. Folks here can take a look at the various videos uploaded to media to check the amount of smoke and draw their own conclusions.

Will be interesting if there is any comment at all in the NTSB report, if one is even developed concerning the smoke issue and what was done. I'm guessing it will be mostly glossed over. Several have commented on the delaying of de-planing had the O2 canisters have been deployed. I don't know if that kind of speculation is warranted either way. Myself, once I saw the door open and the slide deployed, I would haul my ass out of there after one big gulp. It also makes my TX hide happy to know we get full irritation out of the cognoscenti and elitists that want to be so inclusive, except the hate directed our way. Yeehaa. 🤣

[MechEngr]

The 02 generation will be insignificant to the volume of air in the cabin. Anything to cut the choking soot and toxic gases are a plus.

Most every time a deplaning delay is mentioned, even including retrieving carry-ons the bulk of the passengers are being delayed by the limited rate the escape slides can be used. I've not seen one instance of anyone grabbing for a bag with the gap of even one person ahead of them in line.

What will cause problems is if, during that delay at the chute, the people at the back die solely because they have no breathable air when that air is available, just not deployed. I'd rather grab a mask, take a breath, move forward, grab another mask and another breath rather than choke to death. I guarantee in the case of a smoky fire the flight attendants and pilots will be grabbing those portable units.

So, why not deploy them? Calculated risk. In the case of engine smoke you can take out a few dead passengers and not have to replace those expensive O2 generators. Apparently airlines have fought efforts to carry smoke hoods but do carry those crappy air vests as if the scattered fragments of an airplane will allow them to be used. Some say it's advertising that's the issue. No one wants to contemplate being on fire.

What I want to know is if the ventilation system can rapidly isolate the engine bleed air from the cabin so no smoke gets in at all.

[megan]

Carry your own HEEDS bottle, sold for underwater and smoke enviroments.

https://heed3.com/models/models.html

[43Inches]

The 02 generation will be insignificant to the volume of air in the cabin. Anything to cut the choking soot and toxic gases are a plus.

No amount of added O2 is insignificant in an aircraft fire. You add O2 the fire burns more, it's not an amount and suddenly it flares up, every molecule you add to an already smoldering fire will increase the combustion relative to it therefore adding fumes and more heat, which adds more fire. The flashover events have proved that the level of O2 can drop to a point where the fire is subdued enough to get on the ground and passengers generally survive, however when the exits open you want to be out in under a minute before the new fresh O2 reaches the fire site which can have almost explosive results. There may be limited use of O2 in relieving smoke issues after the fire is out, or say bleeds sealed off, however the main focus should be removing the smoke from the cabin. One rule applies overall, LAND ASAP... better to be on the ground watching it burn than flying around doing anything more than landing while your arse burns off.

What I want to know is if the ventilation system can rapidly isolate the engine bleed air from the cabin so no smoke gets in at all.

Pull the fire handle all bleeds close, or if not directly a engine fire the crew will have to find out which bleed is causing the smoke, which may be straight forward or require a methodical approach led by the QRH. Therefore some smoke will enter the cabin, until the bleeds are closed, not sure there is a feasible way to have smoke detectors in bleeds to auto close them, and what threshold. That would then have issues if you fly through smoke, or even just water vapor. High humidity or other gases and particulate can trip smoke detectors, let alone sitting in blasting hot bleed air as well.

Carry your own HEEDS bottle, sold for underwater and smoke enviroments.

Great idea until you try to get them through security, and they probably class as DGs, even the small canisters on the LJs constitute DGs.

[ZFT]

Originally Posted by MechEngr

Closing off the engine air bleed and opening the cabin bleed would drop the air pressure and evacuate the majority of the contaminated air allowing the air masks to drop and become the majority of the O2 supply to passengers while cutting the toxins.

There should be smoke detection in the ventilation system to automatically close the supply doors so smoke cannot make it to the cabin from the affected engine.

Varig Flight 820 - what a nightmare.

If the fire is held back by lack of oxygen then everyone is dead already. It will have moved to primarily carbon monoxide production along with heavy, choking soot.

Yet , if I recall all the cabin crew survived being on supplementary O2.

[theFirstDave]

Originally Posted by megan

Carry your own HEEDS bottle, sold for underwater and smoke enviroments.

https://heed3.com/models/travel.html

"Your Heed must be depressurized and the regulator removed from the cylinder to allow for visual inspection."

[hunbet]

This is what would work and it should be able to pass through security.

​​​​​​https://elmridgeprotection.com/ievac...e-escape-mask/

[43Inches]

Looks like a leak in a cockpit O2 system led to an out of control fire on board a TU 204 last Jan. Even with rapid airport fire service response on the ground the aircraft was burnt out. Seems relevant to what we were talking about on this thread.

Just reinforces that with a fire on board the main focus should be land and evac ASAP.

[BFSGrad]

N8792Q flew from HAV to HOU on 3/25. Scheduled for return to revenue service on 3/31.