Worker ingested into engine
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,071
Received 2,939 Likes
on
1,252 Posts
Too late now, but perhaps the air hook ups, external power etc should be designed to be away from the danger zone front of the engines, though in this day an age you would think an LED illuminated engine running sign could be incorporated in the fuselage or cowling sides adjacent to the intake.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Northern Europe
Age: 45
Posts: 152
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So, pilots expect air-conditioning to be connected before engine shutdown now?
Thought police antagonist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,373
Received 119 Likes
on
86 Posts
Too late now, but perhaps the air hook ups, external power etc should be designed to be away from the danger zone front of the engines, though in this day an age you would think an LED illuminated engine running sign could be incorporated in the fuselage or cowling sides adjacent to the intake.
As others have said, no need for LED's showing an engine is running....because there's a much cheaper solution.
You know, as well as I do, the RAF went to great lengths to stress the dangers of jets, props and rotors, but even then incidents sadly occurred, however, the key point is, the dangers were constantly emphasised and displayed.....it's called training and education which, along with supervision, is a remarkably effective way of ensuring safety for all and everybody involved in ramp operations.
Live aircraft are a paradox....they are inherently safe....and also inherently lethal....if you become complacent or don't receive the appropriate level of training along with continuous awareness of the dangers.
I do accept however that, no matter how much emphasis is placed on safety, humans are remarkably adept at finding ways to kill or maim themselves.
I also accept, having seen it many times over the years, the same emphasis isn't going to feature with ramp service providers.
Last edited by Krystal n chips; 4th Jan 2023 at 09:36.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,071
Received 2,939 Likes
on
1,252 Posts
With the best will in the world, this would involve a radical and impractical redesign of the air supply systems, and Ground Pwr panels are already a long way forward of the engines.
As others have said, no need for LED's showing an engine is running....because there's a much cheaper solution.
You know, as well as I do, the RAF went to great lengths to stress the dangers of jets, props and rotors, but even then incidents sadly occurred, however, the key point is, the dangers were constantly emphasised and displayed.....it's called training and education which, along with supervision, is a remarkably effective way of ensuring safety for all and everybody involved in ramp operations.
Live aircraft are a paradox....they are inherently safe....and also inherently lethal....if you become complacent or don't receive the appropriate level of training along with continuous awareness of the dangers.
I do accept however that, no matter how much emphasis is placed on safety, humans are remarkably adept at finding ways to kill or maim themselves.
I also accept, having seen it many times over the years, the same emphasis isn't going to feature with ramp service providers.
As others have said, no need for LED's showing an engine is running....because there's a much cheaper solution.
You know, as well as I do, the RAF went to great lengths to stress the dangers of jets, props and rotors, but even then incidents sadly occurred, however, the key point is, the dangers were constantly emphasised and displayed.....it's called training and education which, along with supervision, is a remarkably effective way of ensuring safety for all and everybody involved in ramp operations.
Live aircraft are a paradox....they are inherently safe....and also inherently lethal....if you become complacent or don't receive the appropriate level of training along with continuous awareness of the dangers.
I do accept however that, no matter how much emphasis is placed on safety, humans are remarkably adept at finding ways to kill or maim themselves.
I also accept, having seen it many times over the years, the same emphasis isn't going to feature with ramp service providers.
Yes we did go to extremes in the RAF to prevent it, however it still did not prevent them all .
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,071
Received 2,939 Likes
on
1,252 Posts
You could have then installed in the outer and inner cowl? Just an idea.. rather like this electro illuminated panel
https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/2285...umber-el-panel
In fact you can now get Electro luminescent paint, so you could literally spray the cowlings and get the running engines cowls to light up!
Though it might not be as effective in daylight. I saw the stuff on Car SOS where they added a VW logo to a bonnet.
https://www.ellumiglow.com/electroluminescence/el-paint
https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/2285...umber-el-panel
In fact you can now get Electro luminescent paint, so you could literally spray the cowlings and get the running engines cowls to light up!
Though it might not be as effective in daylight. I saw the stuff on Car SOS where they added a VW logo to a bonnet.
https://www.ellumiglow.com/electroluminescence/el-paint
Last edited by NutLoose; 4th Jan 2023 at 19:05.
Have you ever seen an airport at night? The ramp? It’s already a cacophony of flashing lights and rotating beacons and alarms and jet bridge beeps and sirens.
Lights on the engines won’t make a difference but be a feel good.
As stated before…in the rest of the world nobody approaches with a beacon flashing.
After a min or two you may get a polite reminder from the mechanic plugged into the nose gear.
Lights on the engines won’t make a difference but be a feel good.
As stated before…in the rest of the world nobody approaches with a beacon flashing.
After a min or two you may get a polite reminder from the mechanic plugged into the nose gear.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,071
Received 2,939 Likes
on
1,252 Posts
Watch this and tell me you wouldn’t see it on a live engine, even if it saves one life it is worth it. And yes I have worked the ramp on airports for many years.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,071
Received 2,939 Likes
on
1,252 Posts
Yep, those boards over the compressor should stop all suction problems 
In the early days of pure jets and low bypass turbofans, ingestions were not particularly uncommon (although - thanks to inlet guide vanes - not automatically fatal). There is a pretty dramatic video on a US Navy carrier of a crewman getting ingested into (IIFC) an A-6 and surviving.
In the early days of the high bypass turbofans (where getting ingested is pretty much a guaranteed fatality), ingestions were almost non-existent. I suspect in part because the early widebodies put the inlets higher up, but mainly because people were justifiably scared of getting ingested and so were cautious.
As high bypass turbofans have come to dominate - and with much higher numbers of aircraft, many with the inlets at walking height - a combination of complacency and far more opportunities has combined to make ingestions more common.
Not much we can do about the increase in opportunities (SOP to protect from ingestions are already commonplace - if not always followed), but complacency can and should be addressed.
In the early days of the high bypass turbofans (where getting ingested is pretty much a guaranteed fatality), ingestions were almost non-existent. I suspect in part because the early widebodies put the inlets higher up, but mainly because people were justifiably scared of getting ingested and so were cautious.
As high bypass turbofans have come to dominate - and with much higher numbers of aircraft, many with the inlets at walking height - a combination of complacency and far more opportunities has combined to make ingestions more common.
Not much we can do about the increase in opportunities (SOP to protect from ingestions are already commonplace - if not always followed), but complacency can and should be addressed.
I was just reading that Stockholm experimented with projecting red traffic lights down onto sidewalks. Cell-phone zombies remained oblivious, as it turned out. But maybe it would work under a running engine?
How many times does it have to be repeated?
Whomever hooked up the air didn’t walk into a running engine so which part of that process is nonsense to you?
The deceased made a fatal mistake.
I feel for the other rampers that had to witness this and I feel for the children that lost a parent.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,071
Received 2,939 Likes
on
1,252 Posts