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Worker ingested into engine

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Worker ingested into engine

Old 4th Jan 2023, 04:02
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Too late now, but perhaps the air hook ups, external power etc should be designed to be away from the danger zone front of the engines, though in this day an age you would think an LED illuminated engine running sign could be incorporated in the fuselage or cowling sides adjacent to the intake.
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Old 4th Jan 2023, 08:20
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by B2N2
I’ve never flown E175 but I’ve been told the air hookup under the fuselage requires moving in close proximity of engine #1, hence #1 being shut down and #2 running while waiting for GPU to be connected.
Correct.

Ground Air Con and Engine Air Start are 8 and 9 respectively:


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Old 4th Jan 2023, 08:50
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Originally Posted by B2N2
I’ve never flown E175 but I’ve been told the air hookup under the fuselage requires moving in close proximity of engine #1, hence #1 being shut down and #2 running while waiting for GPU to be connected.
So, pilots expect air-conditioning to be connected before engine shutdown now?
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Old 4th Jan 2023, 09:57
  #24 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
Too late now, but perhaps the air hook ups, external power etc should be designed to be away from the danger zone front of the engines, though in this day an age you would think an LED illuminated engine running sign could be incorporated in the fuselage or cowling sides adjacent to the intake.
With the best will in the world, this would involve a radical and impractical redesign of the air supply systems, and Ground Pwr panels are already a long way forward of the engines.

As others have said, no need for LED's showing an engine is running....because there's a much cheaper solution.

You know, as well as I do, the RAF went to great lengths to stress the dangers of jets, props and rotors, but even then incidents sadly occurred, however, the key point is, the dangers were constantly emphasised and displayed.....it's called training and education which, along with supervision, is a remarkably effective way of ensuring safety for all and everybody involved in ramp operations.

Live aircraft are a paradox....they are inherently safe....and also inherently lethal....if you become complacent or don't receive the appropriate level of training along with continuous awareness of the dangers.

I do accept however that, no matter how much emphasis is placed on safety, humans are remarkably adept at finding ways to kill or maim themselves.

I also accept, having seen it many times over the years, the same emphasis isn't going to feature with ramp service providers.

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 4th Jan 2023 at 10:36.
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Old 4th Jan 2023, 10:36
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Macabre I know - but what exactly happens to a person in this case? Are we talking pink mist or McNugget mix?
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Old 4th Jan 2023, 10:43
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If you search the Internet there are images available of previous incidents. My advice. Don't do it.
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Old 4th Jan 2023, 13:09
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Originally Posted by The Bartender
So, pilots expect air-conditioning to be connected before engine shutdown now?
For passenger comfort yes, also for engine start during quick turnaround.
It’s simple really, shut down #1 get air hookup, get ground power and shut down #2.
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Old 4th Jan 2023, 17:09
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips
With the best will in the world, this would involve a radical and impractical redesign of the air supply systems, and Ground Pwr panels are already a long way forward of the engines.

As others have said, no need for LED's showing an engine is running....because there's a much cheaper solution.

You know, as well as I do, the RAF went to great lengths to stress the dangers of jets, props and rotors, but even then incidents sadly occurred, however, the key point is, the dangers were constantly emphasised and displayed.....it's called training and education which, along with supervision, is a remarkably effective way of ensuring safety for all and everybody involved in ramp operations.

Live aircraft are a paradox....they are inherently safe....and also inherently lethal....if you become complacent or don't receive the appropriate level of training along with continuous awareness of the dangers.

I do accept however that, no matter how much emphasis is placed on safety, humans are remarkably adept at finding ways to kill or maim themselves.

I also accept, having seen it many times over the years, the same emphasis isn't going to feature with ramp service providers.
That is why I said too late now, the design is done and dusted and in production, one was thinking ahead for future aircraft.

Yes we did go to extremes in the RAF to prevent it, however it still did not prevent them all .
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Old 4th Jan 2023, 17:15
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So where should the LED illuminated engine running sign be located for the exhaust jet blast? There have been numerous injuries and deaths caused by jet blast.
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Old 4th Jan 2023, 19:43
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You could have then installed in the outer and inner cowl? Just an idea.. rather like this electro illuminated panel

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/2285...umber-el-panel




In fact you can now get Electro luminescent paint, so you could literally spray the cowlings and get the running engines cowls to light up!
Though it might not be as effective in daylight. I saw the stuff on Car SOS where they added a VW logo to a bonnet.

https://www.ellumiglow.com/electroluminescence/el-paint



Last edited by NutLoose; 4th Jan 2023 at 20:05.
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Old 4th Jan 2023, 20:03
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Have you ever seen an airport at night? The ramp? It’s already a cacophony of flashing lights and rotating beacons and alarms and jet bridge beeps and sirens.
Lights on the engines won’t make a difference but be a feel good.
As stated before…in the rest of the world nobody approaches with a beacon flashing.
After a min or two you may get a polite reminder from the mechanic plugged into the nose gear.
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Old 4th Jan 2023, 20:13
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Watch this and tell me you wouldn’t see it on a live engine, even if it saves one life it is worth it. And yes I have worked the ramp on airports for many years.

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Old 4th Jan 2023, 21:20
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Problem solved:


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Old 4th Jan 2023, 21:24
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Yep, those boards over the compressor should stop all suction problems
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Old 4th Jan 2023, 21:43
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In the early days of pure jets and low bypass turbofans, ingestions were not particularly uncommon (although - thanks to inlet guide vanes - not automatically fatal). There is a pretty dramatic video on a US Navy carrier of a crewman getting ingested into (IIFC) an A-6 and surviving.
In the early days of the high bypass turbofans (where getting ingested is pretty much a guaranteed fatality), ingestions were almost non-existent. I suspect in part because the early widebodies put the inlets higher up, but mainly because people were justifiably scared of getting ingested and so were cautious.
As high bypass turbofans have come to dominate - and with much higher numbers of aircraft, many with the inlets at walking height - a combination of complacency and far more opportunities has combined to make ingestions more common.
Not much we can do about the increase in opportunities (SOP to protect from ingestions are already commonplace - if not always followed), but complacency can and should be addressed.
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Old 4th Jan 2023, 21:46
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Originally Posted by B2N2
For passenger comfort yes, also for engine start during quick turnaround.
It’s simple really, shut down #1 get air hookup, get ground power and shut down #2.
Seriously? You need conditioned air on arrival before engine shutdown?
Nonsense.
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Old 4th Jan 2023, 23:50
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I was just reading that Stockholm experimented with projecting red traffic lights down onto sidewalks. Cell-phone zombies remained oblivious, as it turned out. But maybe it would work under a running engine?
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Old 5th Jan 2023, 00:04
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
Watch this and tell me you wouldn’t see it on a live engine, even if it saves one life it is worth it. And yes I have worked the ramp on airports for many years.
Please explain to us how you survived all those years without it?
We’re all eager to learn.
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Old 5th Jan 2023, 00:32
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Originally Posted by HOVIS
Seriously? You need conditioned air on arrival before engine shutdown?
Nonsense.
Well…your opinion is hardly relevant as this is what was apparently the procedure with an APU inop that’s why #1 was shut down.
How many times does it have to be repeated?
Whomever hooked up the air didn’t walk into a running engine so which part of that process is nonsense to you?
The deceased made a fatal mistake.
I feel for the other rampers that had to witness this and I feel for the children that lost a parent.

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Old 5th Jan 2023, 00:40
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Originally Posted by B2N2
Please explain to us how you survived all those years without it?
We’re all eager to learn.
One word….. Training
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