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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

Old 14th Aug 2019, 21:25
  #1961 (permalink)  
 
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Daily Mail Exclusive...

A doomed plane which leaked carbon monoxide poisoning footballer Emiliano Sala and his pilot before crashing into the sea had previously been so riddled with faults that an engineer refused to repair it, saying: 'It was not fit to be flown.'
Airfield owner Humphrey Penney revealed the craft had 'a lot of problems' and regular pilot David Henderson was 'unhappy with the maintenance.'
Mr Penney, who is also a licensed engineer, was asked to give a second opinion on the stricken Piper PA-46 Malibu in summer last year.
He spoke out for the first time following today's interim report published by the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch which showed that 28-year-old Argentinian striker Sala and his pilot David Ibbotson were exposed to deadly levels of the toxic gas even before the private plane plunged into the English Channel.

Speaking exclusively to MailOnline, Mr Penney said: 'What happened it all so sad and tragic.
We had deep concerns about the plane when we looked it at a year ago.
We nearly took it on but didn't because there were so many problems with it.'Mr Henderson, originally thought to be the pilot who perished on the plane, had taken it to Sandtoft Airport in Belton, North Lincolnshire, on behalf of the owner chartered accountant Faye Kelly.
Sandtoft boss Mr Penney, recalling his examination of the plane, said: 'Christ, this is awful!
A lot needs doing.'
He added: 'The hydraulic motor was a shambles and the flaps, autopilot and de-icing system weren't working and there were several other problems.
Airfield owner Humphrey Penney (pictured) revealed the craft had 'a lot of problems' and regular pilot David Henderson was 'unhappy with the maintenance'
'There was a long list of things things that needed doing and it was going to cost an awful lot of money to put it right, in the region of £14,000 to £20,000.'
It was not in a fit state to be flown for a passenger but only in an emergency a short distance for maintenance and to get it fixed.'
The American craft registered to a Trust with a beneficial British owner, Ms Keely from Bonsall, Derbyshire - a pilot herself - had come to Mr Penney for a second expert opinion from Retford Gamston Airport in Gamston, Nottinghamshire, where it had been based long term.Mr Penney said: '
It was moved here for a relatively short period and we then sent it to another organisation for the recommended work to be done.
I can't comment on what work was later done.'
The plane was moved to nearby Sturgate Airfield in Gainsborough, Lincolnshire.
No one was available to comment today when approached by MailOnline.Mr Penney added:
'I cannot say if the maintenance was done thoroughly and properly and if it was all fixed but the plane would have had an annual inspection at the end of the year.
If all was good and dandy the plane should have flown safely.
'I know a very large bill for over £10,000 was presented to Faye.'Mr Penney, is now helping air investigators following the shocking crash on January 21 killing new £15 million Cardiff City striker Sala and married father Mr Ibbotson, 59, from Scunthorpe, Lincolnshire,
He told MailOnline he was 'a little surprised' by the bombshell report stating that the footballer had CO saturation levels of 58 per cent in his blood stream and the pilot was overcome by lethal fumes too, saying: 'I was not expecting that.
That is new information.
'He said that even the 'tiniest hole' in a plane's exhaust can cause a carbon monoxide leak, adding: 'One of the first things to go is the muffler, which goes over the exhaust system to warm the air coming into the craft.
Even the tiniest hole can cause carbon monoxide to pour through the exhaust and go into the cabin.
'Unfortunately, it will poison the pilot and any passenger.They will feel nauseous and drift off to sleep.
It affects people in different ways but there is no odour and it is deadly dangerous.'
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 21:37
  #1962 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by korrol View Post
Auxtank may recall Emiliano Sala’s own voice message in which he said he was scared and that it seemed as if the plane was falling apart - and that was before take off
That's typical of that aircraft type taxiing; everything shaking and vibrating. Nothing strange there when you're used to A320's.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 21:40
  #1963 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
I think I was rather expecting readers here would understand it as a question about a suggested sequence to be performed at identification and before incapacitation.

Oh well ...
You're missing the point by a mile - there is no pilot identification of CO poisoning to self - just a gradual loss of SA, and then unconsciousness and then seizure followed by heart failure.
You don't get "Heads Up" clues along the way.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 21:54
  #1964 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nige321 View Post
Don't believe anything you read in the Daily Mail. Its not colloquially known as the "Daily Fail" for no reason. Absolute trash sensationalist "journalism" that has no interest whatsoever in facts. Why let facts get in the way of a good story!

They can't even get the name of the aircraft owner right, so do you believe anything else you read?
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 21:55
  #1965 (permalink)  
 
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Lets face it CO from the exhaust would probably include all the other horrible stuff that stinks.
Even a miss placed crank case vent put fumes in the cockpit that made me feel ill.
That's my experience.
So why haven't the AAIB lifted the aircraft.
Surely they needed to examine the engine.
If i was a operator of that type, i would want some answers.
Why, is something being hidden.

I'm quite sure even amateur wreck divers could bring it up.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 22:00
  #1966 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by newfoundglory View Post
I am currently doing the PPL, and very recently read in ground material about the possibility of fumes and/or CO entering the cockpit.

I had felt this was perhaps an exaggeration in the written material, after all, I can't ever recall ever seeing this before and was even further shocked to see this in the news today.

What do I need to do? I don't remember seeing carbon monoxide detector on the student required items for purchase list.....
Go to local fire station, you might get a free one.
Plenty to buy online
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 22:11
  #1967 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Auxtank View Post
You're missing the point by a mile - there is no pilot identification of CO poisoning to self - just a gradual loss of SA, and then unconsciousness and then seizure followed by heart failure.
You don't get "Heads Up" clues along the way.
If you take safety seriously there is a heads up. Your carbon monoxide detector. Anyone following the rules and taking matters seriously would have one.

So so here are my questions. If the pilot had already demonstrated a lack of recency and a willingness to break the rules, would they have a detector onboard? If they did have a detector would they know what to do when developing a problem at night while IMC and in an area with icing conditions?

Swiss cheese again? One event on its own is a problem. All added together makes for an accident.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 22:32
  #1968 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Edward Teach View Post
Don't believe anything you read in the Daily Mail. Its not colloquially known as the "Daily Fail" for no reason. Absolute trash sensationalist "journalism" that has no interest whatsoever in facts. Why let facts get in the way of a good story!
As a ‘turbo prop’
They can't even get the name of the aircraft owner right, so do you believe anything else you read?
I believe very little in the Daily Mail, but are you suggesting they made the entire story up?
The BBC has just described the aircraft as a ‘turboprop’ - perhaps we should ignore the BBC too...🙄
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 22:45
  #1969 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Auxtank View Post
You're missing the point by a mile - there is no pilot identification of CO poisoning to self - just a gradual loss of SA, and then unconsciousness and then seizure followed by heart failure.
You don't get "Heads Up" clues along the way.
Don't you have a detector on your own aircraft ?

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Old 14th Aug 2019, 23:36
  #1970 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Don't you have a detector on your own aircraft ?
Not an owner. Just a flyer.

I wonder if decision to descend sent shock-cooling - separation of manifold from head - and CO to cockpit?
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 23:56
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Originally Posted by Auxtank View Post
Very nearly 100 pages of this thread and no-one saw that coming.
Not for the first time.

There was that accident that everybody knew was due to being overweight. Until it turned out that it wasn't.
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 00:59
  #1972 (permalink)  
 
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Add fuel to the flames

Ok, just to stoke the fire...

Bloodstream CO levels in the news has caught many here off-guard. Remember, the official post mortem cause of death is unchanged- blunt force trauma.

In light of the CO reading, why has nobody speculated that this may have been a controlled descent/ controlled ditching?

Crash landing in water makes blunt force tramua- fact.
Crash landing causes fire- fact.
Fire makes CO- fact.

Could this have been an attempted ditching gone wrong... or right...
Hard landing causes injuries & possible unconsciousness, meanwhile fire consumes aircraft and CO enters bloodstream. Guy in harness vanishes, but other guy sprawled out in the back is trapped and found in plane.

The aircraft was in far better condition than I'd speculated prior to it's discovery- I'd initially assumed spatial disorientation (given the pilot's qualifications etc) leading to an uncontrollable crash, but in most instances that would have resulted in a large debris field and the plane in 1,000 pieces.... The plane was in tact.

Underneath all the sensationalist stories there are the facts that they are based upon.

Tongue in cheek... and not to cause offence to those involved.... maybe Ibbo is now sailing the Carribean on the back of his own life insurance...

I heard there's cheap cruises out there during hurricane season... but what i wonder is... what kind of self-respecting seaman would willingly take on the role of Captain during a hurricane? I'll let that sink in
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 02:19
  #1973 (permalink)  
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What do I need to do? I don't remember seeing carbon monoxide detector on the student required items for purchase list.....
To Newfound, and others interested, yes, there are many CO detectors available, from the one time dot which changes colour, to the various electronic versions. I advise that you stop by your local fire station, and ask for a little education. If the firefighters have time, they would probably be happy to help. Ask to see a "bump test" which is the calibration of an electronic CO detector with a precision gas. I have a digital CO detector, which I use for CO testing of modified aircraft, and use on my plane a few times a year, and at the time of annual inspection.

The cracks in a muffler which can cause a CO leak into the heating system can be very small, and hard to detect. There are numerous Airworthiness Directives to check for this defect, but it's not full proof. If you're flying a non pressurized plane in a temperate climate, turning off cabin heat, and opening cabin air is a great way to reduce possible CO. If you have the air vent blowing at your face, it is unlikely that CO poisoning will be a risk.

Turbine airplanes can use bleed air for cabin heat, which assures no CO. But aircooled piston powered planes have little choice than to use some form of combustion to produce heat. Combustion = CO, no matter what. A muffler heat exchanger which is well maintained is a good system, but defects are common, and maintenance to find them involved. If I were a renter, I would buy a few of the black dot type CO detectors, and assure that one is near my pilot position during flight in a rental. If I were a club, I would have one digital CO detector, and ask pilots to take it randomly in club airplanes, and note the results. CO is a real hazard, and if it's going to get you, you will not know as it is happening to you, unless you have a detector.

And, let's keep the posts polite and on topic please....
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 07:12
  #1974 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by positiverate20 View Post
Ok, just to stoke the fire...
In light of the CO reading, why has nobody speculated that this may have been a controlled descent/ controlled ditching?

Crash landing in water makes blunt force tramua- fact.
Crash landing causes fire- fact.
Fire makes CO- fact.

Could this have been an attempted ditching gone wrong... or right...
Hard landing causes injuries & possible unconsciousness, meanwhile fire consumes aircraft and CO enters bloodstream.
An aeroplane is "consumed by fire" while sinking in the sea, and leaving no signs of fire damage in the wreckage?

Yes, obviously that's what happened. I'm stunned that no one has seen this before...

PDR
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 08:52
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
An aeroplane is "consumed by fire" while sinking in the sea, and leaving no signs of fire damage in the wreckage?

Yes, obviously that's what happened. I'm stunned that no one has seen this before...

PDR
PDR ....Funnily enough they were my thoughts exactly 🤦🏻.

What a stupid post by positiverate. It's far more likely that the CO incapacitated pilot and passenger, and the blunt force trauma killed one or both of them.

I wonder if Sala was seated with his seat harness/strap securely fastened? Ibbo might even have survived the crash 🤷🏻, who knows!
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 10:12
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Originally Posted by Edward Teach View Post
I wonder if Sala was seated with his seat harness/strap securely fastened?
Err, his body was found in the wreckage, still strapped into the seat.
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 10:24
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Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
Err, his body was found in the wreckage, still strapped into the seat.
Where have you read that? The BBC? Who also confirmed N264DB was a turboprop!

The official releases from the AAIB state that there was one body present in the wreckage. They make no mention of the body being strapped into the seat.

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Old 15th Aug 2019, 11:33
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Originally Posted by BigEndBob View Post
Lets face it CO from the exhaust would probably include all the other horrible stuff that stinks.
Even a miss placed crank case vent put fumes in the cockpit that made me feel ill.
I had a share in an enclosed cockpit vintage aeroplane which suffered part of the exhaust dropping off in flight. An electronic device in the cockpit alerted the (2000+hr instructor) flying it to high CO levels, who returned and landed, noticing increasing difficulty in managing his own flying, and feeling ill for some time afterwards. He did not notice any strange smells or fumes in the cockpit. So I think you are incorrect.

G
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 12:03
  #1979 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Edward Teach View Post
Where have you read that? The BBC? Who also confirmed N264DB was a turboprop!

The official releases from the AAIB state that there was one body present in the wreckage. They make no mention of the body being strapped into the seat.
FFS, does it matter...?

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Old 15th Aug 2019, 12:06
  #1980 (permalink)  
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Lets face it CO from the exhaust would probably include all the other horrible stuff that stinks.
Even a miss placed crank case vent put fumes in the cockpit that made me feel ill.
Sure, crankcase fumes are yucky and potentially poisonous. If they're coming into the cockpit, you'll likely notice. If you're engine is running with decent pistons and rings crankcase fumes are not the product of combustion. A crankcase vent would have the be very noticeably out of place to put fumes into the cockpit - it is not at all connected to the cabin heat/air system.

A cracked muffler may be directly in the cabin heat system. A very cracked muffler may put noticeable exhaust into the cabin. A slightly cracked muffler may put a hazardous amount of CO into the cabin, without any noticeable exhaust smell. I have experienced this personally. It is not safe to assume that you will detect hazardous amounts of CO by smelling exhaust.
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