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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

Old 30th Mar 2019, 08:46
  #1781 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SimonS View Post
All one can say is, "You read it here first, on PPRuNe".

Of course, Media interest will fade quickly, given some 'other things' going on, but at least it's nice to see some of the 'facts' going into the open. Slightly tidier reporting would be nice, rather than random paragraphs, but that's just my pedantry.
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Old 30th Mar 2019, 09:03
  #1782 (permalink)  
 
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To me the fact that the pilot was in breach of his license (commercial, night) is no longer the issue, it will be undoubtedly listed as a breach contributing to the crash, possibly following the "aviate" issue of spatial disorientation and/or icing. What is more important is that this high profile case is an opportunity for the CAA to clamp down on grey charters and bring us back to what the law intended. Commercial is commercial, private is private, and introducing the FAA "common purpose" would be a good start.
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Old 30th Mar 2019, 11:17
  #1783 (permalink)  
 
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Amazing . . . you can sanction somebody on Universal Credit . . . but can't do it to a flight plan.

N
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Old 31st Mar 2019, 04:22
  #1784 (permalink)  
 
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Our industry has always had this line that it would take one famous person to be killed in an aircraft accident for it to come to the fore
Dave Edwards
The Air Charter Association
Now that this has occurred, we can expect something to be done. Whatever defence the grey charter operators offer, I suspect it will not withstand the onslaught of a private action headed by one of the UK's foremost QCs.
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Old 31st Mar 2019, 17:49
  #1785 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dan Winterland View Post


Now that this has occurred, we can expect something to be done. Whatever defence the grey charter operators offer, I suspect it will not withstand the onslaught of a private action headed by one of the UK's foremost QCs.
"" GREY CHARTER OPERATOR" It is this falsity that has given rise and a common acceptance that similar to many branded goods traded under this term that such services as aircraft charters are not fakes, not illegal but cheaper than the branded goods or services. I do not consider this term acceptable to describe and convey the correct sense of what it really it is. In my view the whole thing is an illegal operation and everyone who has been involved in it should face prosecution. The law needs to be strengthened to deter all those so involved, starting with the owner of the aircraft, ending with the pilot and all those in between who have been part of the whole chain. That will put an end to it once and for all.
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Old 1st Apr 2019, 01:10
  #1786 (permalink)  
 
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Agreed Chronus.

I imagine he will be targeting the club,agent and David Henderson.

Apart from damages there will be substantial costs.
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Old 1st Apr 2019, 05:47
  #1787 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chronus View Post
The law needs to be strengthened to deter all those so involved, starting with the owner of the aircraft, ending with the pilot and all those in between who have been part of the whole chain. That will put an end to it once and for all.
The law doesn't need to be strengthened; it just needs to be enforced. The law we have is sufficient, but to date its policing is pretty minimal. I'm expecting that to change, but given the huge increase in CAA responsibilities that will come after Brexit anyway it may be a struggle to fund the required enforcers.

PDR
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Old 1st Apr 2019, 19:25
  #1788 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
The law doesn't need to be strengthened; it just needs to be enforced. The law we have is sufficient, but to date its policing is pretty minimal. I'm expecting that to change, but given the huge increase in CAA responsibilities that will come after Brexit anyway it may be a struggle to fund the required enforcers.

PDR
Perhaps not, but as you correctly express it, enforcement is needed. Does that involve more boots on the ground. I would have thought not. Not in these days of computers and high tech stuff. Even HMRC have now had their way and imposed the so called Making Tax Digital (MTD) to tackle tax dodging and tax fraud, all to the cost of the small business community. So why not take a leaf out of the taxman`s book and do something similar with the PPL log book. Mandate monthly electronic filing of it and if it shows a trend of flying more than working, say as a plumber, then pay the bloke a visit and check his bank account. In addition there could be a record of where they have been, whether it was night or day and weather conditions at the relevant times. No cost to the regulator, plenty of it to the likely candidate. It might redress the balance with the mountain of paperwork that a legitimate charter operator has to maintain to make a half decent living out of the job.
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Old 2nd Apr 2019, 08:52
  #1789 (permalink)  
 
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What authority does the CAA have to check bank accounts and which bank account?
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Old 2nd Apr 2019, 09:52
  #1790 (permalink)  
 
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"Mandate monthly electronic filing of it and if it shows a trend of flying more than working, say as a plumber, then pay the bloke a visit and check his bank account. In addition there could be a record of where they have been, whether it was night or day and weather conditions at the relevant times. No cost to the regulator, plenty of it to the likely candidate"
Cost to EVERY PPL! Cost to the pilot of an Evans VP2, a Turbulent, or a Fournier.
Airport records should already be sufficient for detecting the likely aircraft types.
Caveat emptor would be better.
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Old 2nd Apr 2019, 20:41
  #1791 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Maoraigh1 View Post
"Mandate monthly electronic filing of it and if it shows a trend of flying more than working, say as a plumber, then pay the bloke a visit and check his bank account. In addition there could be a record of where they have been, whether it was night or day and weather conditions at the relevant times. No cost to the regulator, plenty of it to the likely candidate"
Cost to EVERY PPL! Cost to the pilot of an Evans VP2, a Turbulent, or a Fournier.
Airport records should already be sufficient for detecting the likely aircraft types.
Caveat emptor would be better.
Do forgive me Maoriagh, but how would you propose the public be made aware of what is in the package. Sort of the equivalent of ATOL, ABTA,endorsement for the PPL holder, or perhaps some kind of a tattoo on his/her forehead saying IR, IMC, Night and approved by CAA for cost sharing only, to be used only for common purpose.
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Old 2nd Apr 2019, 21:05
  #1792 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pittsextra View Post
What authority does the CAA have to check bank accounts and which bank account?
Let`s look at it from this angle. If a PPL can clock up 100hrs pa, at an hourly cost of say 250 for something like a PA46 ( and that is erring on the low side) that`s 25kpa If on the other hand he is clocking up 900hrs pa that is 225kpa. In the first one that is serious money for a plumber to spend on a hobby. In the second that`s nigh well impossible, unless of course he is seriously rich and has some kind of eccentricity for working as a plumber.
So my reference to banks and bank accounts was merely intended for the regulators to be given authority to access suspects finances to consider and verify the purpose of their flying activities.
With the current stink over financing of terrorism in this country, see last Sunday`s Times, HMRC is getting a hammering for not sharing info with the security services and in consequence it is likely some changes in legislation over the current confidentiality rules being changed. Now if the CAA was to be given a spoonful of that sort of medicine, what would that do to the prospects of any likely lads who would like to exercise the privileges of their PPL s for other than just a bit of fun on a sunny weekend .
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 08:12
  #1793 (permalink)  
 
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I see the general point but an argument that simply links hours flown to income is far too crude because it overlooks other relationships that allow poorer individuals to fly way beyond that model.

However even if we accept the basics of your proposition i would never open up my financials in the way you suggest it is totally unacceptable anyway and that is before you expand the argument to the ability of the CAA to manage that data well or the qualifications of the people working at that organisation to be trusted to have visibility of such information.

Then it over looks the lottery winners, children with a large trust fund, bank robbers, drug dealers, people trafficers or those good at gambling. Some of those activities might be distasteful but that isnt the business of aviation.

Yet how would it catch those flying conmercially?? Your logbook shows 900hrs you show bank account A with appropriate income from what? You could tell CAA enforcement it was from drug dealing and what are they going to do? whilst bank account B is all the money you get paid by clients for flying them around.

as has been said there is already adequate rules they just need the authority to enforce them.
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 08:29
  #1794 (permalink)  

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As already stated by others, the legislation is already in place but seldom enforced. Drivers tend to speed on roads where there are no speed cameras.
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 08:51
  #1795 (permalink)  
 
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The bottom line is that the various authorities know who is doing it and why but very rarely take any action, probably because investigating and taking even one errant PPL to court costs more than the safety benefit likely to be achieved.
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 11:08
  #1796 (permalink)  
 
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I think in UK you'd need a court order to inspect someone's bank account. The CAA can't just march in and demand them.
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 14:52
  #1797 (permalink)  
 
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All sounds rather Orwellian: 1984 and all that............!!
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 19:08
  #1798 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Air Snoop View Post
The bottom line is that the various authorities know who is doing it and why but very rarely take any action, probably because investigating and taking even one errant PPL to court costs more than the safety benefit likely to be achieved.
Yes, possibly correct, but that would require some sort of cost/benefit analysis to have been carried out. Now with this latest accident, with the finger pointing to a PPL wiping out some 17million plus at the stroke not of a pen, but a joystick , perhaps the regulators might decide to revisit their calculations and add a bit more to the value they have previously used for life. After all is it not that the three priorities in aviation are:
Safety
Safety
Safety

I have not seen, heard or read cost being mentioned anywhere. Naturally I stand to be corrected on this point.
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Old 4th Apr 2019, 09:19
  #1799 (permalink)  
 
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All this talk of suspect pilots bank accounts being checked by the authorities- these are I suspect primarily cash transactions, with the money cascading down through the organizers to the pilots and the owners. As regards Mr Ibbotson, I don't for a minute believe that any electronic funds will have hit any accounts he holds, the main cash payment would most likely have been made when he returned David Hendersons credit cards following the flight. I'm sure that Mr H will of course have been spoken to by the various authorities re lending his card/s out and the basis for the flights he apparently organized.
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Old 4th Apr 2019, 10:32
  #1800 (permalink)  
 
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Can any of you help me in discovering more about the mysterious David Henderson from Gamston who clearly has links with the ill fated aircraft?

He claims in this BBC clip which shows the aircraft that ferried Sala and Ibbotson to their watery graves to have carried out many long distance ferries.
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/magazine...-a-ferry-pilot
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