Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island
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Its perfectly normal with N reg aircraft that are owned by none US citizens.
To be honest even European reg aircraft it can be a bit of a circular effort with several company's being setup and owned by each other in a circular fashion. There have been 747's abandoned in airports round the world where they have never found out who actually owned them to get them to remove them and pay the parking fee's. One is now a hotel in Arlanda.
To be honest even European reg aircraft it can be a bit of a circular effort with several company's being setup and owned by each other in a circular fashion. There have been 747's abandoned in airports round the world where they have never found out who actually owned them to get them to remove them and pay the parking fee's. One is now a hotel in Arlanda.
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There’s an abandoned light aircraft (Cherokee?) at JER ... even had recent notices in tne local paper “seeking owner”. 
Been here for several years, apparently, a bil like the Jet Provost!
Edit to the above: G-OSTU (AA5A Cheetah) was apparently sold about 10 years ago. The last known owner was reportedly a woman in UK who sold it to 'someone in Jersey'. This from the Jersey Evening Post, 19 Mar 19.
Been here for several years, apparently, a bil like the Jet Provost!
Edit to the above: G-OSTU (AA5A Cheetah) was apparently sold about 10 years ago. The last known owner was reportedly a woman in UK who sold it to 'someone in Jersey'. This from the Jersey Evening Post, 19 Mar 19.
Last edited by MPN11; 19th Mar 2019 at 16:42. Reason: as per text
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I suppose all interested parties are waiting for the Coroners verdict and the final report from AAIB before all manner of court summons start flying around and landing at various addresses of those involved in the whole process. Let`s see whether the Coroner will return a verdict of unlawful killing, accident / misadventure or contributed by neglect.
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All has been said in this thread and this type of 'illegal' flying has been going on for years to the knowledge of the CAA. Although they can amend and quote the rules 'til the cows (or lucky illegal flights) come home, nothing will change until they take effective enforcement action and hit the perps in the pocket or bang them up to rights before they cause an accident.
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Can we prevent this from happening again . No. There are always 1% of people that want to bend the rules. Tightening the rules will not change that , just affect the 99% of us that do follow the rules...
Why is aviation not being held to the same compliance standards?
For example standardised and compulsory risk assessment in all GA marketing. Obligatory availability of insurance documents, logbooks, maintenance records etc to any passenger irrespective of cost basis, together with easy to understand guides of what the consumer should be checking.
Bottom line...nobody should need to get on any sort of aircraft without an clear and transparent understanding of risk.
None of this is hard...other industries, just as complex, have been doing this for years.
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Heard yesterday from a colleague that there is an international group of journo's doing research into the grey charter market. They have pulled a years worth of flight data from euro control. And apparently it obvious which airframes are doing it and which pilots. And its not just a UK thing. And we are talking three figure numbers of flights per week inside EASA area.
He was picked up because he ferried an empty aircraft back to Germany on his CPL last year before he started doing multicrew job . Its not just N reg which is involved.
He was picked up because he ferried an empty aircraft back to Germany on his CPL last year before he started doing multicrew job . Its not just N reg which is involved.
BBC Wales are running this interesting story.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-47612188
There are calls for a series of flights in the weeks before the fatal crash which killed footballer Emiliano Sala to be investigated by regulators.
The aviation trade body Air Charter Association told BBC Wales it believes there are grounds to investigate other flights linked to the £15m transfer.
These carried Sala, his agent, Cardiff City officials and others between the UK and France in December and January.
In an exclusive interview with BBC Wales, Dave Edwards, chief executive officer of the Air Charter Association (Baca), warned that the "underground growth" of illegal and so-called "grey" charter flights was undermining legitimate air charter companies and putting passengers at risk.
These relate to flights which are not properly licensed under regulations governing aircraft and pilots.
He said the organisation's concerns about the sector date back about seven years and that they hold regular meetings with both the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and the European Union Aviation Safety Agency (Easa) to discuss the issue.
Mr Edwards said: "The football agent has said on the record that they paid for a series of flights.
"We've done some background research into all of those flights and we're concerned more than ever that all of them have the potential to have, certainly, questions to be asked about them, which is what we've pushed the CAA to be doing recently and also Easa because the origin of the flight was in France so that comes under (their) territory.
"There's enough circumstantial evidence here that would make us push the authorities to do a full investigation into the background to ensure it was compliant."
Baca has done its own research through the European air traffic control agency and established the various operators and pilots for the flights linked to the Sala deal.
The aviation trade body Air Charter Association told BBC Wales it believes there are grounds to investigate other flights linked to the £15m transfer.
These carried Sala, his agent, Cardiff City officials and others between the UK and France in December and January.
In an exclusive interview with BBC Wales, Dave Edwards, chief executive officer of the Air Charter Association (Baca), warned that the "underground growth" of illegal and so-called "grey" charter flights was undermining legitimate air charter companies and putting passengers at risk.
These relate to flights which are not properly licensed under regulations governing aircraft and pilots.
He said the organisation's concerns about the sector date back about seven years and that they hold regular meetings with both the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and the European Union Aviation Safety Agency (Easa) to discuss the issue.
Mr Edwards said: "The football agent has said on the record that they paid for a series of flights.
"We've done some background research into all of those flights and we're concerned more than ever that all of them have the potential to have, certainly, questions to be asked about them, which is what we've pushed the CAA to be doing recently and also Easa because the origin of the flight was in France so that comes under (their) territory.
"There's enough circumstantial evidence here that would make us push the authorities to do a full investigation into the background to ensure it was compliant."
Baca has done its own research through the European air traffic control agency and established the various operators and pilots for the flights linked to the Sala deal.
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I suspect that might be the opening gambit in the UK side of things. It was a German reporter that spoke to my colleague but apparently there is French and Italian interest as well. .
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Yes . Here is the list of flights which are being investigated by the Air Charter Association :-
- 5 December 2018 - Flight from Stapleford in Essex to Nantes - carrying Cardiff City manager Neil Warnock, assistant manager Kevin Blackwell, Willie McKay and Mark McKay to see Emiliano Sala play against Marseilles
- 6 December - party returns from Nantes to Cardiff. Both flights made on G-KARE, operated by Surrey-based Flexifly Aircraft Hire Ltd
- 8 January 2019 - Flight from Cardiff to Nantes - carrying Neil Warnock, Cardiff City player liaison Callum Davies, Willie and Mark McKay to meet Sala and his agent. They're flown back to Cardiff the same day. On N531EA, owned by Guernsey-based Channel Jets
- 14 January - Sala's agent, Meissa N'Diaye, flown from Paris to Nantes. N'Diaye and Sala are flown from Nantes to Cardiff to have a look around the Cardiff City Stadium, returning to Nantes the same day. N'Diaye is then flown back to Paris. All flights made on N843TE - owned by Channel Jets
- 18 January - Sala flies from Nantes to Cardiff for a medical and to sign his contract with Cardiff City. Via Channel Jets in N531EA. Sala's agent N'Diaye - who has travelled to Cardiff for the signing via a commercial flight - flown back to Paris by Lord George Porchester in his own aircraft, N14EF
- 19 January - Sala flown back to Nantes by David Ibbotson on N264DB to bid farewell to his Nantes team-mates and make personal arrangements. Mr Ibbotson books into a hotel to await the return leg of the journey - on 21 January - to deliver Sala back to Cardiff for his first training session
- 21 January - the flight leaves Nantes at 19:15 and disappears from radar around an hour into the journey.
I think we all know there are many unanswered questions regarding the crashed Malibu and if I was investigating Gamston airport would be top of my list.
That is where the aircraft was based and it appears operated by David Henderson who the agents claim was their regular pilot.
I suspect he was also involved in arranging flights for the McKays if we believe their press statements.
I will be very surprised if we don’t see a CAA prosecution further down the line.
Clearly many aircraft operators have been hiding behind N registration to operate in the grey zone.
Europe appears quite lax in allowing N reg aircraft to be home based without returning to the USA.
These aircraft are operating under what clearly is a flag of convenience.
Across Asia to Japan and down to Australia and New Zealand this is not permitted.
That is where the aircraft was based and it appears operated by David Henderson who the agents claim was their regular pilot.
I suspect he was also involved in arranging flights for the McKays if we believe their press statements.
I will be very surprised if we don’t see a CAA prosecution further down the line.
Clearly many aircraft operators have been hiding behind N registration to operate in the grey zone.
Europe appears quite lax in allowing N reg aircraft to be home based without returning to the USA.
These aircraft are operating under what clearly is a flag of convenience.
Across Asia to Japan and down to Australia and New Zealand this is not permitted.
Last edited by Mike Flynn; 19th Mar 2019 at 13:07.
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Channel Jets AOC
Yes . Here is the list of flights which are being investigated by the Air Charter Association :-
- 5 December 2018 - Flight from Stapleford in Essex to Nantes - carrying Cardiff City manager Neil Warnock, assistant manager Kevin Blackwell, Willie McKay and Mark McKay to see Emiliano Sala play against Marseilles
- 6 December - party returns from Nantes to Cardiff. Both flights made on G-KARE, operated by Surrey-based Flexifly Aircraft Hire Ltd
- 8 January 2019 - Flight from Cardiff to Nantes - carrying Neil Warnock, Cardiff City player liaison Callum Davies, Willie and Mark McKay to meet Sala and his agent. They're flown back to Cardiff the same day. On N531EA, owned by Guernsey-based Channel Jets
- 14 January - Sala's agent, Meissa N'Diaye, flown from Paris to Nantes. N'Diaye and Sala are flown from Nantes to Cardiff to have a look around the Cardiff City Stadium, returning to Nantes the same day. N'Diaye is then flown back to Paris. All flights made on N843TE - owned by Channel Jets
- 18 January - Sala flies from Nantes to Cardiff for a medical and to sign his contract with Cardiff City. Via Channel Jets in N531EA. Sala's agent N'Diaye - who has travelled to Cardiff for the signing via a commercial flight - flown back to Paris by Lord George Porchester in his own aircraft, N14EF
- 19 January - Sala flown back to Nantes by David Ibbotson on N264DB to bid farewell to his Nantes team-mates and make personal arrangements. Mr Ibbotson books into a hotel to await the return leg of the journey - on 21 January - to deliver Sala back to Cardiff for his first training session
- 21 January - the flight leaves Nantes at 19:15 and disappears from radar around an hour into the journey.
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SND
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I assume the list is just a comprehensive coverage of all Sala-related flights. What emerges from under those stones may offer insight into all the related issues.
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The football "transfer window" may be closed, but business trips surely still have to be arranged as managers and football club scouts travel to watch potential transfer targets. After all the attention Cardiff City F.C. has attracted, one wonders how its manager and associated agents arrange their flights.
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Both planes were registered in America, which means they cannot be flown commercially
From report on BBC website referring to a/c used on some of the flights listed:
'Both planes were registered in America, which means they cannot be flown commercially in Europe without the express permission of US regulator, the Federal Aviation Authority, and the CAA.
The flights were listed on flight plans, as non-commercial.
BBC Wales has discovered that eight days after the plane carrying Sala crashed, one of these planes was de-registered in the US and re-registered as a Guernsey-based plane.
It was then placed on the company's AOC.'
'Both planes were registered in America, which means they cannot be flown commercially in Europe without the express permission of US regulator, the Federal Aviation Authority, and the CAA.
The flights were listed on flight plans, as non-commercial.
BBC Wales has discovered that eight days after the plane carrying Sala crashed, one of these planes was de-registered in the US and re-registered as a Guernsey-based plane.
It was then placed on the company's AOC.'
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oops!
No surprise here, I suppose. The plot thickens nicely.
Now it needs the authorities to devote the time, energy and manpower to follow up this ... and all the other cases.
No surprise here, I suppose. The plot thickens nicely.
Now it needs the authorities to devote the time, energy and manpower to follow up this ... and all the other cases.
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From report on BBC website referring to a/c used on some of the flights listed:
'Both planes were registered in America, which means they cannot be flown commercially in Europe without the express permission of US regulator, the Federal Aviation Authority, and the CAA.
The flights were listed on flight plans, as non-commercial.
BBC Wales has discovered that eight days after the plane carrying Sala crashed, one of these planes was de-registered in the US and re-registered as a Guernsey-based plane.
It was then placed on the company's AOC.'
'Both planes were registered in America, which means they cannot be flown commercially in Europe without the express permission of US regulator, the Federal Aviation Authority, and the CAA.
The flights were listed on flight plans, as non-commercial.
BBC Wales has discovered that eight days after the plane carrying Sala crashed, one of these planes was de-registered in the US and re-registered as a Guernsey-based plane.
It was then placed on the company's AOC.'
An attempt to cover the traces??
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No, as mentioned in an earlier post, not OK for a US-registered aircraft to operate commercially under a Guernsey AOC, or at all if it is Part-91
Also, as Channel Jets is a Guernsey AOC, and Guernsey is non-UK and non-EU, they can't operate even a 2-REG aircraft commercially to/from UK or EU without a permit from the Authorities at both ends (e.g. a flight from France to UK would need a permit from both France and the UK)
Also, as Channel Jets is a Guernsey AOC, and Guernsey is non-UK and non-EU, they can't operate even a 2-REG aircraft commercially to/from UK or EU without a permit from the Authorities at both ends (e.g. a flight from France to UK would need a permit from both France and the UK)