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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

Old 7th Feb 2019, 12:03
  #1161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
..., well the family had enough resources to fund a private search so I wouldn't be surprised if they mounted a private recovery effort...
All the news reports I saw stated that the privately funded search was funded by donations, with no mention made of any money coming from 'family resources'.
pilotmike is offline  
Old 7th Feb 2019, 12:38
  #1162 (permalink)  
 
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I presume a post mortem on the recovered body will establish if the cause of death was blunt force trauma injury or death by drowning. If a body has been immersed in the sea for two weeks is it still possible to tell if death was caused by drowning or not?
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 12:42
  #1163 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by draglift View Post
I presume a post mortem on the recovered body will establish if the cause of death was blunt force trauma injury or death by drowning. If a body has been immersed in the sea for two weeks is it still possible to tell if death was caused by drowning or not?

Yes....... Forensic science is very capable of determining cause of death.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 12:53
  #1164 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
If Sala's remains are still unrecovered, and there is a possibility that the body is inside the wreck, well the family had enough resources to fund a private search so I wouldn't be surprised if they mounted a private recovery effort. While the poor weather has forced the AAIB's recovery operation to be abandoned, the location of the wreck is now known and it's not as if it's going anywhere.
There has been an extensive search around the wreckage, and only 1 body found. The missing body would have been ejected from the plane at the impact, as the seat cushions. Nobody knows where it can be now, it will only will be found within 3 months on the Cotentin beaches...

The family may decide to recover the plane, it has been stimated at less than ⅓ of the 300,000€ donated (if any money left by David Mearns ).
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 13:39
  #1165 (permalink)  
 
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The forensics does quite well in such cases, but let's see which body it was they recovered.
The more interesting one for the investigation would definitely be the pilot.
I fear the soccer player does a better media coverage than the plumber.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 13:51
  #1166 (permalink)  
 
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I suppose the license held issue in this whole tragedy is a bit of a red herring as to the cause. The bottom line is no matter how many endorsements & ratings one has in their logbook,unless your work is in a professional environment where flight and passenger safety is trained, procedurelised and regulated, and where you eat, sleep and breathe performing flights for paying customer on a regular basis with recurring training, performance assessments and currency requirements, you’re really not a commercial pilot even if your license says so, you’re just a jumped up private pilot chancing your arm.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 14:03
  #1167 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by piperboy84 View Post
I suppose the license held issue in this whole tragedy is a bit of a red herring as to the cause. The bottom line is no matter how many endorsements & ratings one has in their logbook,unless your work is in a professional environment where flight and passenger safety is trained, procedurelised and regulated, and where you eat, sleep and breathe performing flights for paying customer on a regular basis with recurring training, performance assessments and currency requirements, you’re really not a commercial pilot even if your license says so, you’re just a jumped up private pilot chancing your arm.
I guess that must be why no experienced commercial pilot ever made a mistake that led to a fata crash.

Oh, hang on a minute...

PDR
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 14:22
  #1168 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pilotmike View Post
All the news reports I saw stated that the privately funded search was funded by donations, with no mention made of any money coming from 'family resources'.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 14:33
  #1169 (permalink)  
 
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The fund raising is apparently being done via the gofundme site
Here is the link for those interested.......

https://www.gofundme.com/nodejendebuscar-emiliano-sala

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Old 7th Feb 2019, 15:02
  #1170 (permalink)  
 
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DUTY OF CARE PATH

PDR1 & PB 84
The whole point here is there is no clear 'path' on responsibility (or easily found records), and therefore only a very messy legal battle will ensue that in itself will only feed the lawyers, but will not put anything back into the system (as no system was being followed).
No one is saying operating under an AOC is trouble or incident free, but it does ensure a 'DUTY OF CARE' path that is 'traceable' on most of the counts.
That is the big difference in this sort of case as any obvious deficiencies can be fed back into the system for future operations.
The big question is who wishes to pay for this 'service' as the travelling public are frequently not aware of the fact that the charges made are due to the SAFETY element of a flight and nothing else.
I think we all know who the authorities and legal beavers will be looking at to start the trail in this case.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 15:49
  #1171 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EXDAC View Post
This is why I am so interested in actually seeing a UK PPL with no night or instrument ratings. If it does have the actual words "Day VFR only", or similar, then flight in IMC would not be allowed using an FAA 61.75 with an instrument rating. It is not allowed, according to the regulation as written, because it is prohibited by a restriction / limitation of the base UK licence. If, however, the base UK licence grants Day VFR privileges solely because there is no night rating and no instrument rating then the 61.75 with IR would allow operation under IFR in IMC.
My UK PPL issued September 1999 does not have either the word Night or Day printed on it. (I never took either a Night or IMC Rating)
That said, my Flight Radio-Telephony Operator's Licence issued June 1999 neither has VHF or HF printed on it. Perhaps unusually(?) for a PPL I decided to obtain a full VHF/HF RTF and took the written HF exam. Initially the CAA did not fully read my application form and issued me with a VHF only (or some similar words) licence. I queried this and it was replaced with the one I have just described.
Brevity in style can be confusing.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 16:15
  #1172 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by elmorejames View Post
I asked this question, along with other posters, some hours ago and they were removed by the mods. I ask again, is it possible to remove a body by ROV, or were divers sent down?
Multiple sources have stated that no divers were sent down. Those ROVs are used on oil wells. They have cameras and arms, and can weld, cut, lift, and do almost anything a human can.

Edit: Link: https://deepoceangroup.com/services/imr/wrov-operations/

The Work ROV is the work horse of the subsea services spread and operators extended arm into subsea. Typically equipped with two manipulators the work ROV can both do rough operations and delicate finger tip work at several thousand meters depth.

Last edited by GordonR_Cape; 7th Feb 2019 at 16:28. Reason: Add link.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 16:19
  #1173 (permalink)  
 
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One of the news reports I read indicated that they retrieved the body by ROV. I don't have time to look for it right now but I'm pretty sure that was the case.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 16:50
  #1174 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by elmorejames View Post
Is it possible to remove a body by ROV, or were divers sent down?
The AAIB update says ROV " in as dignified a way as possible "
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 17:13
  #1175 (permalink)  
 
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On my class 2 medical it states "VCL Valid by day only"

Hope this answers the license question.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 19:00
  #1176 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.itv.com/news/channel/201...w-sala-search/
A crowdfunding page has surpassed its target, raising more than £270,000 since Friday to start a new search to find the plane carrying missing footballer Emiliano Sala and pilot David Ibbotson.

The Sala family is planning to organise a private search with hired divers, according to Argentinian media outlet Ole.
It seems the Sala family organised the private search using money raised from the crowdfunding. With that amount, exceeding the target, raised so fast, they would have little need to spend their own money.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 20:34
  #1177 (permalink)  
 
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Yes Arfur they can. It involves the technique known as mixed gas diving where Helium is mixed in with oxygen. It is very much an area for commercial divers. Any underwater work to be carried out for extended periods of time involves bell diving with a compressed air chamber situated on the deck of the dive vessel, referred to in those circles as the pot, for the divers to gradually decompress to atmospheric pressure.
You are quite correct about human dexterity. In the event AAIB require for the wreckage to be recovered with minimal damage, then human divers at this depth would provide for greater chance of success than ROV`s. They would be able to place pneumatic lift bags at pre determined positions to maintain structural integrity during the lift and possibly raise it sufficiently above the sea bed before installing the wreckage in a cradle to bring it to the surface. It is all a matter of cost/benefit for the decision as to which method to use. A decision that I would guess to be made by AAIB, only they are in a position to evaluate whether they need the aircraft as intact as possible or otherwise.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 21:44
  #1178 (permalink)  
 
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BBC reporting the body has been identified as Sala.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 21:51
  #1179 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jumpseater View Post
BBC reporting the body has been identified as Sala.
YeS CONFIRM.
Their TV News Channel reporting body is Emiliano Sala
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 22:29
  #1180 (permalink)  
 
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This is all very sad, one person recovered and one still missing, but reporting search to be called off for weather. I only hope they resume to recover the pilot, even if the plane stays down, its looking a little like we have the main man so no more money available, but all men should be equal and irrespective of their upbringing, background etc., I hope they resume and find some kind of closure for David Ibbotsons family also. RIP.
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