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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

Old 26th Jan 2019, 14:59
  #581 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by helimutt View Post
ie the elephant wouldn't fit into a room!!!!! And I know who you mean on Rotorheads....
Thought you might!

SND
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 15:01
  #582 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TRUTHSEEKER1 View Post
The Cessna 421B is G-BBUJ which was damaged at Portimao before August 2000. It still sits there at Portimao
That aircraft used to be on my company's AOC in the 1980s, although we flew it almost exclusively for the automotive company that owned it. In light of the amazing revelations appearing here regarding non AOC 'charters' I'm pleased not to be in the business now. The CAA's attitude even in those days was far from satisfactory in this regard. We regularly flew a local company's executives from SEN to GLA in an Aztec and one day I was processing some other pax in the terminal at SEN. I noticed these clients there apparently chatting to a freelance pilot we often used and who had, in fact flown them under our AOC previously. It turned out they were flying to GLA in an Aztec this pilot had hired for them and they said "well, it's a lot cheaper to pay him the hire cost and for his services than using your company". I pointed out that his CPL did not allow him to offer this type of service and that their insurance could well be invalid if they went ahead and something went wrong. They shrugged this off so I phoned the CAA, told them the story and suggested they ramp check the aircraft at GLA. As it would be day stopping at GLA they would have plenty of time to organise this but they never did and I heard nothing more from them; no follow up at all. Obviously things haven't changed for the better since the 1980s.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 15:18
  #583 (permalink)  
 
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In the BBC story covering the texts, in Sport, not News

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47013474

the exchange is noted as being translated from the original French, which accounts for its unnatural feel perhaps?
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 15:45
  #584 (permalink)  
 
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the exchange is noted as being translated from the original French, which accounts for its unnatural feel perhaps?
Here in France, any reporting on the transcript is clear that it comes from UK sources. I think that means that Willie McKay released it to the UK press having gained it from his son Jack who plays for Cardiff and having spent a considerable time in France, probably speaks French. I also think the transcript has been tidied-up to make it understandable because any text exchanges I happen to see between my kid's and friends are full of French colloquialisms!
The media here are also stressing the point that McKay has clearly stated that neither he nor his sons (two players and an agent) have any connection to the aircraft in question. They also state that they have contacted one person in the past, who runs an aircraft consultancy, to arrange flights around Europe which is exactly what they did this time.
Finally, while this incident is not getting the same level of coverage in French light aviation forums as it is in the UK, I have noted a couple of comments raising the question of how a passport from someone not actually in France was scanned or photocopied in Nantes
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 16:28
  #585 (permalink)  
 
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Whilst acknowledging Wingly are not involved in the incident flight I did a quick check on their FB feed and found a piece by Simon Calder re how useful this service is. On 24th July 2017 Wingly responded to at least two separate questions on the minimum hours question , with the reply that A-B flights required the pilots to have a minimum of 100 hours. I wonder if there’s a lower requirement for A-A flights? no one seems to have asked at that time. What is clear is no one at Wingly is monitoring their own ‘procedures’.

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Old 26th Jan 2019, 17:21
  #586 (permalink)  
 
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Is it just me that finds general aviation totally depressing? You read today's accident reports and they are exactly the same as the accident reports of 30 or 40 years ago. The same idiots doing the same stupid things with the same inevitable results. The same over-confident pilots overestimating their own limited abilities. The same petty crooks running the same dodgy charter operations. The same spineless authorities preferring to spend their time nitpicking reputable operators rather than enforcing the law against the real rogues etc etc.
All the while innocent people are losing their lives as a result.
Today, on this thread, I have learned for the first time of the existence of flight-sharing apps. God help us!


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Old 26th Jan 2019, 17:36
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Contradictions...
This whole episode is riddled with contradictions. Mark McKay originally admitted arranging the flight, now Willie McKay says he did!
A few other points raise questions:-
1. Why did the a/c depart Cardiff for Guernsey at 12.15 on Saturday 19th, rather than flying direct to NTS? The return was planned as a direct flight.
2. Did it actually land in GCI?
3. How many POB were there when it left Cardiff?
4. Knowing that the passenger flew into Cardiff earlier (Friday) on Eclipse N531EA which regularly visits Guernsey, was a crew member from that a/c simply being given transport there?
5. Presumably DI was flying the a/c on Saturday as noted from his comment about his skills being a little rusty, but was he the sole crew member?
6. We are told the flight from Nantes to Cardiff on Monday was delayed by up to 10 hours, but the transcript of the messages sent to and from the passenger reveal that all along he was wanting a return to Cardiff on Monday evening - not earlier in the day. How can this contradiction be explained?
7. Apparently his "luggage" was photographed. Has anyone seen the picture to know if it was excessive?
8. Was extra fuel put on board contributing the excessive weight?
9. Might the additional weight have caused only two to travel on the fated flight rather than three? (We are still unclear as to the whereabouts of DH on Monday.)
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 17:51
  #588 (permalink)  
 
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I was totally unaware of Wingly until reading this thread so just had a look. To take one example, someone advertising their sight seeing service with 70 hours TT experience on a PA28. To Joe Public this may sound a lot and they may happily jump in trusting their pilot to SAFELY conduct the flight. However, anyone with aviation knowledge would realise how little experience this pilot has and could make their decisions based on that. I think the main issue is that people think a qualified pilot is just that, without any understanding of what exactly they’re qualified to do and handle, and more importantly not to do or handle.
I hope the tragic events of late bring some awareness to the people using these sites and services, and that the quality of the pilot can vary hugely.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 18:12
  #589 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gurnard View Post
Contradictions...
This whole episode is riddled with contradictions. Mark McKay originally admitted arranging the flight, now Willie McKay says he did!
A few other points raise questions:-
1. Why did the a/c depart Cardiff for Guernsey at 12.15 on Saturday 19th, rather than flying direct to NTS? The return was planned as a direct flight.
2. Did it actually land in GCI?
3. How many POB were there when it left Cardiff?
4. Knowing that the passenger flew into Cardiff earlier (Friday) on Eclipse N531EA which regularly visits Guernsey, was a crew member from that a/c simply being given transport there?
5. Presumably DI was flying the a/c on Saturday as noted from his comment about his skills being a little rusty, but was he the sole crew member?
6. We are told the flight from Nantes to Cardiff on Monday was delayed by up to 10 hours, but the transcript of the messages sent to and from the passenger reveal that all along he was wanting a return to Cardiff on Monday evening - not earlier in the day. How can this contradiction be explained?
7. Apparently his "luggage" was photographed. Has anyone seen the picture to know if it was excessive?
8. Was extra fuel put on board contributing the excessive weight?
9. Might the additional weight have caused only two to travel on the fated flight rather than three? (We are still unclear as to the whereabouts of DH on Monday.)
Erm...... what excessive weight?
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 18:26
  #590 (permalink)  
 
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Hello!

Originally Posted by Raymond Dome View Post
Is it just me that finds general aviation totally depressing?
I know what you mean and you are absolutely right, but "GA" is much more than those private flights (someone already pointed this out some pages back). NetJets, just to name one of the most prominent ones, and lots of other commercial operators of charter airplanes operate by the same standards as airlines and have a similar safety record. Many companies have (private in the sense of the legislation) corporate flying departments that operate at an even higher level. All these are "GA". In my view that is the safest way to fly - otherwise multi-billion corporations would not allow their top executives to use them.

Unfortunately accidents like the one we are discussing here discredit general aviation as a whole by assigning attributes like "unsafe", "dangerous", "cowboy" and "lethal" to lightplane operation. My personal consequence of this accident will be to report any such flight I am aware of to the authorities in the future. So far whistleblowing has never been my thing, but I earn my living as a "GA" pilot and I will do everything I can to prevent operations like the one that led to this accident to compromise my professional environment.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 18:36
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Originally Posted by Arkroyal View Post


Erm...... what excessive weight?
What I meant was - a lot of luggage (the passenger was "moving house") and extra fuel in view of wx might have resulted in the other crew member being unable to fly because of weight restrictions, leaving DI to operate alone.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 18:41
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Originally Posted by what next View Post
My personal consequence of this accident will be to report any such flight I am aware of to the authorities in the future. So far whistleblowing has never been my thing, but I earn my living as a "GA" pilot and I will do everything I can to prevent operations like the one that led to this accident to compromise my professional environment.
And THAT is the takeaway from this very unfortunate event.
Don't rely on regs, CAA, EASA, whatever.
If you see it, report it! to the TWR - if there is one, then to NATS, CAA, etc. We've seen in this thread that certain individuals have taken action when they've been suspicious that someone is exercising privileges of a license to which they are not entitled so to do. Even if you have to call the Police. Keep them on the ground until doubt is dispelled.

Time to clean up this town and preserve GA for those for which it's an abiding passion and for those for whom it's also a legitimate commercial venture with all checks and balances in order.

This is our manor these unscrupulous individuals are rotting up for the future and causing untold upset and pain in the mean time.

Last edited by Auxtank; 26th Jan 2019 at 18:55.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 18:43
  #593 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by meleagertoo View Post
I could point you to a G reg airline accident involving a nosegear-less landing with pax on a scheduled international service.
Or rather, I couldn't, as no accident report was filed.
Would you care to share ?

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Old 26th Jan 2019, 18:49
  #594 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gurnard View Post
What I meant was - a lot of luggage (the passenger was "moving house") and extra fuel in view of wx might have resulted in the other crew member being unable to fly because of weight restrictions, leaving DI to operate alone.
Iff there was ‘another crew member’. We don’t know.

And if the baggage was of significant weight. We don’t know yet. I suspect the photo of said baggage which was part of the text stream will not see the light of day.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 18:52
  #595 (permalink)  
 
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7:43pm - Jack McKay: "My dad has told me that you are going home tomorrow. He could organise a plane to take you direct to Nantes and to come back on Monday, at a time that suits you

I struggle to see how McKay can not be legally responsible towards both Sala's family and Cardiff.
Agents often control all aspects of a players life, Sala was severally let down by his agent in my opinion.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 19:10
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Despite flying for 42 years, I had never heard of Wingly before glancing at this thread. Now I see 70hr PPL holders offering their services for sightseeing flights.....my mind, well and truly boggled !
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 19:14
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Originally Posted by beamer View Post
Despite flying for 42 years, I had never heard of Wingly before glancing at this thread. Now I see 70hr PPL holders offering their services for sightseeing flights.....my mind, well and truly boggled !
why does everyone continue to mention wingly, when so far there is not a shred of evidence that wingly had anything to do with the crash?
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 19:16
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Originally Posted by artschool View Post
why does everyone continue to mention wingly, when so far there is not a shred of evidence that wingly had anything to do with the crash?
He's not referring to the accident. He's making a comment about what he's learned about Wingly FROM this thread.
Don't forget - it's a discussion thread.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 19:17
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Originally Posted by 2unlimited View Post
7:43pm - Jack McKay: "My dad has told me that you are going home tomorrow. He could organise a plane to take you direct to Nantes and to come back on Monday, at a time that suits you

I struggle to see how McKay can not be legally responsible towards both Sala's family and Cardiff.
Agents often control all aspects of a players life, Sala was severally let down by his agent in my opinion.
because Sala was a grown man and could make decisions for himself? by all accounts Sala declined Cardiffs offer to arrange a commercial flight.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 19:20
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Originally Posted by 2unlimited View Post
7:43pm - Jack McKay: "My dad has told me that you are going home tomorrow. He could organise a plane to take you direct to Nantes and to come back on Monday, at a time that suits you

I struggle to see how McKay can not be legally responsible towards both Sala's family and Cardiff.
Agents often control all aspects of a players life, Sala was severally let down by his agent in my opinion.

And ignorance is no defence in law.

SND
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