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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

Old 24th Jan 2019, 15:41
  #321 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rr84c View Post
EASA, if anything, is more safe than FAA regs IF everyone is properly licensed and aircraft airworthy.
Please be careful with the word 'rubbish'. The last EASA safety report says rather different to 'safer' https://www.easa.europa.eu/document-...ty-review-2017. In short, our over-regulated EASA system produces roughly twice the accidents and 1.6 times fatal rate compared to the FAA regulations. I say this does definitely not qualify for a 'more safe' statement.

Last edited by ChickenHouse; 24th Jan 2019 at 16:24.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 15:54
  #322 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rr84c View Post

What makes you think a flight in an N-reg plane is more professionally executed? That is total rubbish....
I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. What Eutychus meant was that specifically in HIS personal experience the flight with the US Aircraft was more professionally executed than the British one (because, if you can recall, the pilot of the British aircraft rushed the departure -one thing you should never do in this game unless ABSOLUTELY necessary).
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 15:57
  #323 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by red9 View Post
What FAA database are you guys referring to ? Cant find any mention of the pilots name in the FAA airman databsae and would be surprised if hes already been deleted by the FAA ? Cant find anyone I know with an FAA licence on it either ?
This one I imagine:

Airman Query - Aviation Database - AviationDB
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 16:07
  #324 (permalink)  
 
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In the event of a successful ditching how long would a PA-46 Malibu remain afloat?
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 16:14
  #325 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Aso View Post
Proper operation with an AOC, two professional pilots, Multi engine aircraft. MINIMUM
Um, so, should I have been avoiding the Aurigny Trislanders? (I always found it rather touching that the reverse of the safety sheet bore a diagram of the aircraft controls, as though one was supposed to clamber over the seats and take over in the event of pilot incapacitation...)

Originally Posted by rr84c View Post
What makes you think a flight in an N-reg plane is more professionally executed? That is total rubbish.
That's not what I said. I said it was my admittedly SLF perception as regards the safety of passengers.The reason being that as pax we were issued safety harnesses, the pilot made sure we had properly attached them and understood their use, gently insisted their spouse wore one too despite protestations, and generally seemed to be paying due care and attention. The G-reg pilot legged it to the plane amid oncoming fog and (again to my untrained eye) took off in a tearing hurry, no flotation device or explanation of any kind.

The regulatory side of things is what I'm trying to get my head around.

The subtlety here on N vs G is that if you have BOTH a UK-issued and US-issued licence, you must have the correct privileges on your US licence when flying an N-reg outside the U.K. Whatever is on your UK licence is irrelevant (despite being in EASA land)
Excuse my ignorance again. Both the N-reg in the accident and the N-reg I flew in over the presumed accident site came from French airspace and were flying in CI airspace. Is this unusual? Would it be typical for non-US based pilots to have the appropriate FAA privileges in this part of the world, or does nobody look at the paperwork too closely (again, it seems to me there are people flying around the CI like this all the time).

[sorry, cross-post with @Edward Teach ]
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 16:15
  #326 (permalink)  
 
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In the event of a successful ditching how long would a PA-46 Malibu remain afloat?
If, by some miracle you did manage to carry out a text-book ditching at night into a relatively calm winter sea, my guess is 10-15 minutes. My other guess is that this was not a text-book ditching.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 16:19
  #327 (permalink)  
Aso
 
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Um, so, I should I have been avoiding the Aurigny Trislanders? (I always found it rather touching that the reverse of the safety sheet bore a diagram of the aircraft controls, as though one was supposed to clamber over the seats and take over in the event of pilot incapacitation...)
That is up to you. He asks advice... I never fly on the single engine, single pilot helicopters from Nice to Monaco for that reason. Even though Jean Pierre might be a 60 or so ex Military hot shot..
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 16:27
  #328 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jsypilot View Post
That one is the worst reference and a long time outdated copy, even pulled before data protection rules closed access to personal data, of the FAA database: https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/.

Sorry for my ignorance, did not look it up - is CI airspace UK airspace? The answer to @Eutychus may be easy, many FAA 61.75 holder are not aware of EASA not being the country of issuance of their original license ;-).
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 16:30
  #329 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by clareprop View Post
If, by some miracle you did manage to carry out a text-book ditching at night into a relatively calm winter sea, my guess is 10-15 minutes. My other guess is that this was not a text-book ditching.
Indeed, so far there doesn't appear to be anything at all text-book about this incident.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 16:31
  #330 (permalink)  
 
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We are back in the familiar territory of an aircraft evaporating without trace.

This time, the area is in the middle of Europe. Tomnod is dead and the RAF have Reapers in Lincolnshire which are still in Lincolnshire (or maybe the Middle East, of course). This is an organisational mess. This should not be happening.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 16:41
  #331 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Downwind Lander View Post
We are back in the familiar territory of an aircraft evaporating without trace.

This time, the area is in the middle of Europe. Tomnod is dead and the RAF have Reapers in Lincolnshire which are still in Lincolnshire (or maybe the Middle East, of course). This is an organisational mess. This should not be happening.
We have cars and people going missing across the country every day, on land, in perfect weather.. Not sure I get your point. It had a Mode A/C transponder, they know roughly where it ditched, It is pretty obvious where it is now and no Reaper (would have ended up in the same circumstance if launched at the time) or slow Satellite tasking would have helped there.

I agree is should have had something like a Pilot Aware or Mode S transponder onboard which would have helped but it is all cost and no regs currently requiring them to. Plus at the end of the day, the aircraft would still be underwater.

Next caller...
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 16:41
  #332 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Aso View Post
That is up to you. He asks advice... I never fly on the single engine, single pilot helicopters from Nice to Monaco for that reason. Even though Jean Pierre might be a 60 or so ex Military hot shot..
Ugh, you wouldn't get me into a helicopter unless there was a really good reason. Not enough redundancy.

I appreciate this is a judgement call. From my personal humble SLF perspective hopping between France and the Channel Islands on SE planes in daytime in mild, calm weather during which some land is always in sight appears acceptably safe - not least because the practice is widespread.

What this discussion is teaching me is that beneath this simple perception lies a veritable thicket for us SLF of poorly perceived relative risks, poorly understood qualifications/licences/certifications/insurance cover, and very unclear arrangements regarding paying passengers depending on whether charter is spelled with a small c or a big C. All of which, apart from loss of life, has the potential to go pear-shaped very quickly if a passenger is valuable in some way in addition to their intrinsic value as a human being, as is the case in this incident.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 16:47
  #333 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Eutychus View Post
So, without naming and shaming, what are all those single-engine aircraft with part-time pilots operating out of Guernsey and Jersey with various paying passengers hopping in and out of the back doing all day and why? Do regular CI GA pilots agree with the above assessment?
+ ISLE OF MAN
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 16:48
  #334 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Eutychus View Post
So, without naming and shaming, what are all those single-engine aircraft with part-time pilots operating out of Guernsey and Jersey with various paying passengers hopping in and out of the back doing all day and why? Do regular CI GA pilots agree with the above assessment?

You don't necessarily need two pilots. A decent airplane, a qualified/rated/experienced pilot and proper procedures in place. Lets not go down the route that single pilot ops are inherently dangerous.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 16:50
  #335 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Aso View Post
Proper operation with an AOC, two professional pilots, Multi engine aircraft. MINIMUM
Multi engine for the correct conditions?. Two crew for the correct conditions?. I know many pilots who fly single pilot regularly all over the place quite safely. Some of them have even flown in and out of the Channel Islands on charters. Hard to believe, I know, but it's true. Non of them crashed either.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 17:01
  #336 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Eutychus View Post
Um, so, should I have been avoiding the Aurigny Trislanders? (I always found it rather touching that the reverse of the safety sheet bore a diagram of the aircraft controls, as though one was supposed to clamber over the seats and take over in the event of pilot incapacitation...)



That's not what I said. I said it was my admittedly SLF perception as regards the safety of passengers.The reason being that as pax we were issued safety harnesses, the pilot made sure we had properly attached them and understood their use, gently insisted their spouse wore one too despite protestations, and generally seemed to be paying due care and attention. The G-reg pilot legged it to the plane amid oncoming fog and (again to my untrained eye) took off in a tearing hurry, no flotation device or explanation of any kind.

The regulatory side of things is what I'm trying to get my head around.



Excuse my ignorance again. Both the N-reg in the accident and the N-reg I flew in over the presumed accident site came from French airspace and were flying in CI airspace. Is this unusual? Would it be typical for non-US based pilots to have the appropriate FAA privileges in this part of the world, or does nobody look at the paperwork too closely (again, it seems to me there are people flying around the CI like this all the time).

[sorry, cross-post with @Edward Teach ]
N-reg aircraft flying around Europe is not unusual, and I would suspect (but note I have no evidence to support) the pilots being properly licensed. Most pilots appreciate that the paperwork is there to keep them and passengers safe and legal, so they follow it.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 17:06
  #337 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Eutychus View Post
Ugh, you wouldn't get me into a helicopter unless there was a really good reason. Not enough redundancy.

I appreciate this is a judgement call. From my personal humble SLF perspective hopping between France and the Channel Islands on SE planes in daytime in mild, calm weather during which some land is always in sight appears acceptably safe - not least because the practice is widespread.

What this discussion is teaching me is that beneath this simple perception lies a veritable thicket for us SLF of poorly perceived relative risks, poorly understood qualifications/licences/certifications/insurance cover, and very unclear arrangements regarding paying passengers depending on whether charter is spelled with a small c or a big C. All of which, apart from loss of life, has the potential to go pear-shaped very quickly if a passenger is valuable in some way in addition to their intrinsic value as a human being, as is the case in this incident.
Nothing wrong with helicopters. Safe when maintained correctly and flown within the correct flight envelope. At least that's what I tell myself every time I go to work.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 17:12
  #338 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by helimutt View Post
Nothing wrong with helicopters. Safe when maintained correctly and flown within the correct flight envelope. At least that's what I tell myself every time I go to work.
I'm fairly sure VSKP was maintained correctly and being flown within the correct flight envelope! As was LN-OJF, G-REDL and G-TIGK.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 17:35
  #339 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TRUTHSEEKER1 View Post
The references to the Graham Hill accident are from a historic accident where the main issue was a miscalculated approach into Elstree, the knock on effect from the accident was that Graham Hill was a well known racing car celebrity who had his life managed by an agent who should have kept all aircraft records in currency & also advise Graham Hill of his licence revalidation requirements. Sadly his agent wasn't clued up in Aviation & his incompetence caused the Hill family a lot more distress than just losing a family member.

The same circumstances came to light in the Colin McCrae Helicopter accident, so it would seem whilst the agents of Hill & McCrae believed they had their clients best interests at heart, they just didn't understand Aviation sufficiently to keep their aviation concerns fully covered.

I have flown celebrities & flown with celebrities and they are just happy to be getting where they want to be, they really don't care whether it is a Cessna 150 or a Kingair as long as they get to their destination.
Its up to the pilot to keep their licences and ratings current, its their licence and nobody elseís responsibly. Also if you are going to fly the bloody thing thatís youíre responsibility as well. The two you mention were accidents waiting to happen, both had scant regard for the system.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 17:49
  #340 (permalink)  
 
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Search called off at 15:15 z

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46992612



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