Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Accidents and Close Calls
Reload this Page >

An-2 crashed at airshow "70 years of An-2" at Chernoe (MARZ)

Accidents and Close Calls Discussion on accidents, close calls, and other unplanned aviation events, so we can learn from them, and be better pilots ourselves.

An-2 crashed at airshow "70 years of An-2" at Chernoe (MARZ)

Old 2nd Sep 2017, 14:59
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 1,011
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
An-2 crashed at airshow "70 years of An-2" at Chernoe (MARZ)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BYiKcwJlPPh/
https://ren.tv/player/224541#autoplay
https://lentaru.media.eagleplatform....103&player=new







Kulverstukas is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2017, 15:45
  #2 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 1,011
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

(c) Moskva24/Lidia Shironina
Kulverstukas is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2017, 16:30
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 1,011
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Kulverstukas is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2017, 16:34
  #4 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 1,011
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
https://iz.ru/video/embed/640581#autoplay
Kulverstukas is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2017, 17:48
  #5 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 1,483
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Stalled in the turn? Increasing G against speed

The video is quite revealing.....
parkfell is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2017, 19:06
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK.
Posts: 4,391
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Got fixated on following the planned line or avoiding going past the crowd line?
Dreadful.
Basil is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2017, 21:36
  #7 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 1,011
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Kulverstukas is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2017, 22:32
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wor Yerm
Age: 67
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Was it stalled or was it misjudgement? The entry and line followed suggested that high speed, a low level turning pass was planned. A family event was turned into a horrible one when the aircraft descended at least 10' lower than it was "safe". Only in Russia.
Piltdown Man is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2017, 23:16
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Lakeside
Posts: 534
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
When in doubt, roll out. Tightening the turn feels right, but is so wrong.

Hotel Tango. I agree. "Only in Russia". What nonsense.

In the last of the videos, the pilot looks to have rolled right a couple times, to shallow his dive, and from the response, I think he thought he had it made. Hindsight 20/20. Just to say an air show emphasizes drama, and some risk above the normal is expected.

Piltdown. In review, it appears closer than at first. It won't help the family, but the mistake was one that's been made before, with better results. I know nothing about the aircraft except to say it is one huge and heavy single.

A similar? The Colonel who tried knife edge flight at Fairbanks, with similar results. In a B-52.

Last edited by Concours77; 3rd Sep 2017 at 00:01.
Concours77 is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2017, 23:35
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: world
Posts: 3,424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Only in Russia.
I totally disagree with that generalisation!

You have to admit that quite a few spectators go along just in the hope of witnessing something like this.
Sorry, but on the basis that aeroplane accidents at air shows are unlikely to be survivable, I vehemently disagree with that. There might be one or two sickos, as there always are in society, but to suggest that "quite a few" go in the hope of seeing someone killed is sick in itself!
Hotel Tango is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2017, 23:54
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 795
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Concours77
When in doubt, roll out. Tightening the turn feels right, but is so wrong.
100% correct. This is why it's important to learn (and teach) to think in terms of lift vector control. The ailerons aim it, the elevator makes you go where it's aimed, but only under a long list of provisos. Best to aim it away from the ground first, and ask questions later.

The naive, easy, and deadly way to teach flying is as an extension of driving a car, with the addition of the "elevator" that moves you up and down. Not so. One of Wolfgang Langewiesche's high points in his book Stick and Rudder is his doing away with the word "elevator" for the control surface in questions.
Vessbot is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2017, 01:10
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: usa
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Here's some more interesting information about the craft

Interested persons should look up An-2 and North Korea. Not allowed to post relevant links, but wowie, they have a bunch of them and apparently well thought out plans to use them.
DaMoopies is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2017, 01:49
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Where the Quaboag River flows, USA
Age: 71
Posts: 3,395
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Concours77
When in doubt, roll out. Tightening the turn feels right, but is so wrong.

Hotel Tango. I agree. "Only in Russia". What nonsense.

In the last of the videos, the pilot looks to have rolled right a couple times, to shallow his dive, and from the response, I think he thought he had it made. Hindsight 20/20. Just to say an air show emphasizes drama, and some risk above the normal is expected.

Piltdown. In review, it appears closer than at first. It won't help the family, but the mistake was one that's been made before, with better results. I know nothing about the aircraft except to say it is one huge and heavy single.

A similar? The Colonel who tried knife edge flight at Fairbanks, with similar results. In a B-52.
That was Lt Col Bud Holland at Spokane, WA Fairchild AFB. He was reentering the pattern, I believe. Wing/CV took a fall via General Court "dereliction of duty".

I find it hard to believe tha AN-2 was designed for acro--drag of brick and wings that don't inspire roll rate.
galaxy flyer is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2017, 03:36
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,852
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Only in Russia
Or Canada:
rotornut is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2017, 04:17
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 68
Posts: 4,317
Received 144 Likes on 69 Posts
That was Lt Col Bud Holland at Spokane, WA Fairchild AFB. He was reentering the pattern, I believe. Wing/CV took a fall via General Court "dereliction of duty".
If I recall correctly, he was practicing for an airshow, not entering the pattern.
tdracer is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2017, 06:52
  #16 (permalink)  
Pegase Driver
 
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 73
Posts: 3,661
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The An-2 has never been designed to do aerobatics, even low key as done here, doing so at low level is definitively not recommended as reactions on the controls are slow and with inertia. ( I have flown it)

I am also doing presentations at airshows with an aircraft not designed for it. Better keep to low passes and tight turns , and not try to imitate stuff you see the Extra do, like here..
That said,another very sad day for the airshow community , and RIP to the pilot..
ATC Watcher is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2017, 07:19
  #17 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,442
Received 190 Likes on 116 Posts
A similar? The Colonel who tried knife edge flight at Fairbanks, with similar results. In a B-52.
There was also a display (practice?) C-17 accident out of a tight turn after take off at Anchorage a few years ago.
treadigraph is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2017, 08:28
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Asia
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
The North Koreans have 300 of these to deliver troops behind South Korean lines. Fabric covered, flying low and slow they are very difficult to detect. Even if airfields get knocked out they can still take off from roads or improvised strips.
Metro man is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2017, 08:43
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: EDDS
Age: 54
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Rudder and aileron do not seem to be in a position to recover, even right before impact.
AndiKunzi is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2017, 09:55
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hadlow
Age: 60
Posts: 597
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
That was Lt Col Bud Holland at Spokane, WA Fairchild AFB. He was reentering the pattern, I believe. Wing/CV took a fall via General Court "dereliction of duty".

I find it hard to believe tha AN-2 was designed for acro--drag of brick and wings that don't inspire roll rate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_F...ase_B-52_crash
Super VC-10 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.