An-2 crashed at airshow "70 years of An-2" at Chernoe (MARZ)
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: In an ever changing place
Posts: 1,039
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From my understanding the AN-2 is not cleared for aerobatics !!!
From the video that was either a barrel roll that went wrong and ended up as a split 'S' or an attempt at a split 'S' that still went badly wrong.
Standing by to be corrected.
From the video that was either a barrel roll that went wrong and ended up as a split 'S' or an attempt at a split 'S' that still went badly wrong.
Standing by to be corrected.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 1,011
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With proper wind it can take off from it's standing position with no need for strip at all like this.
The funds are being raised to support the families of Dmitry Sukharev and Boris Tylevich - two pilots who tragically died in the accident during the airshow in Moscow on September 2, 2017.
https://igor113.livejournal.com/889480.html
Longtimelurker
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: killington Vt
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
100% correct. This is why it's important to learn (and teach) to think in terms of lift vector control. The ailerons aim it, the elevator makes you go where it's aimed, but only under a long list of provisos. Best to aim it away from the ground first, and ask questions later.
The naive, easy, and deadly way to teach flying is as an extension of driving a car, with the addition of the "elevator" that moves you up and down. Not so. One of Wolfgang Langewiesche's high points in his book Stick and Rudder is his doing away with the word "elevator" for the control surface in questions.
The naive, easy, and deadly way to teach flying is as an extension of driving a car, with the addition of the "elevator" that moves you up and down. Not so. One of Wolfgang Langewiesche's high points in his book Stick and Rudder is his doing away with the word "elevator" for the control surface in questions.
Sundry thoughts:
The pilot gets a G loading coming out of the loop, a slight unloading, then back to a G loading in the turn...
Obvious aileron deflection in previous manoeuvres though no obvious aileron deflection in the turn and ground impact ?
Or a spanner in the works perhaps...
.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wor Yerm
Age: 68
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry guys, the comment "Only in Russia" relates to a series of clips on YouTube featuring the most amazing crashes, cock-ups, acts of stupidity and things requiring huge balls. Unlike this incident, many are also very amusing as well.
I'm amazed this comment has pulled so many people's chains though.
I'm amazed this comment has pulled so many people's chains though.
Moderator
In Canada, a part of the requirements for an airshow reads:
Air show aerobatic manoeuvres conducted inside the aerobatic box that have a descending recovery with a pull or push and having a flight path which, when extended, would contact the primary spectator area will not be approved for inclusion in an air show.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://www.avialogs.com/en/aircraft/...2irengine.html
"Acrobatic flights" are forbidden (page 79) and bank limitation in turn is 45 degrees (page 81).
Laurence
According to the An-2 Flight Manual
4498 Flight Manual for An-2 Airplane with Ash-62IR Engine
"Acrobatic flights" are forbidden (page 79) and bank limitation in turn is 45 degrees (page 81).
Laurence
4498 Flight Manual for An-2 Airplane with Ash-62IR Engine
"Acrobatic flights" are forbidden (page 79) and bank limitation in turn is 45 degrees (page 81).
Laurence
Hmmm...
Now we see this aircraft in an aggressive side slip, a "duck walk", and a demonstration of "flying on the prop".
This in an aircraft limited to 45 degrees of bank.
I think from the crash video that the reason this flight ended badly is because it remained in the "maneuver" too long....
The example of a successful maneuver completion also showed the aircraft exceeding limits.
Pushing certified limits is not acceptable. It sets a poor example, and should be discouraged. It is so sad the pilots died. It also was not necessary...
"Only in.....anywhere".
Now we see this aircraft in an aggressive side slip, a "duck walk", and a demonstration of "flying on the prop".
This in an aircraft limited to 45 degrees of bank.
I think from the crash video that the reason this flight ended badly is because it remained in the "maneuver" too long....
The example of a successful maneuver completion also showed the aircraft exceeding limits.
Pushing certified limits is not acceptable. It sets a poor example, and should be discouraged. It is so sad the pilots died. It also was not necessary...
"Only in.....anywhere".
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
B2N2: I think most AN-2s were Polish built, so maybe this one was too. In any case I can't see that it would make much difference. If a Polish An-2 is limited to non-aerobatic 45 degree banks, than I imagine Russian ones would be too.
Laurence
Laurence
At any rate, here in Oz at YBAF i watched Bob Hoover do some twin/single/no-engine aerobatic manoeuvres in a twin engine aircraft, and apparently with a medical written out by CASA just for the air show..
Seems air shows can legitimately have their own rules set out side of a flight manual. .
apparently with a medical written out by CASA just for the air show
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Unna, Germany
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Looking at the manoeuvres flown, I'm wondering whether if his altimeter was set 1 or 2hpa higher? The completed demonstration showed pretty low altitude when coming out of the descending turn, maybe 50 feet or so AGL.
If the pilot didn't set the barometer, then that difference would lead to the plane smacking into the ground....
If the pilot didn't set the barometer, then that difference would lead to the plane smacking into the ground....
Might just be me seeing what i want to see or the changing camera angle, though it appears just before ground impact a little right rudder went in ?
Shame Hoover had to come to Oz to get his U.S. licence back. He certainly put on a good display for the YBAF watchers..
FB, two FAA people had it in for Bob Hoover, and grounded him on supposed medical grounds, this from observing one of his performances at an airshow, which they deemed to be sub par. When he came to Oz, Barry Diamond, ex Navy A-4 and then CASA, put Bob through the hoops and was unable to fault. Bob was given the OK then to perform. The FAA pair were subsequently hung, drawn and quartered, and Bob regained his FAA accreditation.
FB:
"Might just be me seeing what i want to see or the changing camera angle, though it appears just before ground impact a little right rudder went in ?"
I see that. Also visible is an emphatic yaw response, right. That even though the left wings are dragging. There is no (applied) Rudder visible at 20 feet AGL.
NO Flaps. The airplane is not going to impress the audience with speed. Or slippery airframe. The max angle take off pays off at two body lengths?
This aircraft in an air show, (given its size), could impress the crowd with a forward slip to a short landing. It has no problems shedding airspeed, and the attitude of a large a/c in an aggressive slip is something to see. Getting down and stopped quickly would be a finale to be be enjoyed... Is the aircraft placarded no flaps in slip?
The actual maneuver leaves one mystified. What could have been the pilot's plan?
"Might just be me seeing what i want to see or the changing camera angle, though it appears just before ground impact a little right rudder went in ?"
I see that. Also visible is an emphatic yaw response, right. That even though the left wings are dragging. There is no (applied) Rudder visible at 20 feet AGL.
NO Flaps. The airplane is not going to impress the audience with speed. Or slippery airframe. The max angle take off pays off at two body lengths?
This aircraft in an air show, (given its size), could impress the crowd with a forward slip to a short landing. It has no problems shedding airspeed, and the attitude of a large a/c in an aggressive slip is something to see. Getting down and stopped quickly would be a finale to be be enjoyed... Is the aircraft placarded no flaps in slip?
The actual maneuver leaves one mystified. What could have been the pilot's plan?
