CTC cadets initial placement salaries
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CTC cadets initial placement salaries
Any ideas on what a recently trained cadet monthly net salary would be,in their first airline job,in UK!
From a lucky guy,about to retire!
From a lucky guy,about to retire!
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The net salary is an after tax function, and that will obviously vary from individual to individual depending on their own tax coding. This is further complicated by the fact that some partner airlines operate "loan repayment programmes" whereby the salary is separated into two constituent parts. One of those parts (if the cadet elects to utilize it) results in the effective loan repayment part being treated significantly more favourably for tax purposes.
Initial placements are often on the basis that the cadet receives no salary for the placement period, but does receive a repayment of part of their bonded training costs for that period. This is typically around £1200 a month and added to that is the per diems the airline pays its regular pilots. A ballpark figure is likely to be around £2000-£2500 per month (net). If the cadet pilot is offered an employment contract at the conclusion of the initial placement period that will depend on the rates applicable with the airline concerned. At our company they would be placed on a gross rate of around £4500 per month plus typically per diems of around £1000 giving a gross rate of around £5500 per month (£66,000 per annum). That would typically provide a net rate (which might vary significantly from individual to individual depending on some of the factors already mentioned) of around £4275 per month net (when utilizing an HMRC agreed bond repayment programme.)
This is a snapshot of those figures I can currently view and it goes without saying that each and every airline will differ in respect of how they utilize these transition training programmes.
Initial placements are often on the basis that the cadet receives no salary for the placement period, but does receive a repayment of part of their bonded training costs for that period. This is typically around £1200 a month and added to that is the per diems the airline pays its regular pilots. A ballpark figure is likely to be around £2000-£2500 per month (net). If the cadet pilot is offered an employment contract at the conclusion of the initial placement period that will depend on the rates applicable with the airline concerned. At our company they would be placed on a gross rate of around £4500 per month plus typically per diems of around £1000 giving a gross rate of around £5500 per month (£66,000 per annum). That would typically provide a net rate (which might vary significantly from individual to individual depending on some of the factors already mentioned) of around £4275 per month net (when utilizing an HMRC agreed bond repayment programme.)
This is a snapshot of those figures I can currently view and it goes without saying that each and every airline will differ in respect of how they utilize these transition training programmes.
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Bealzebubs figures sound correct for his airline, but as he says it varies by airline and unfortunately the salaries I'm aware the majority of CTC cadets are on (at the big orange) are far lower initially.
£1200 a month subsistence (so it's net) for the first 8 months, with zero allowances apart from £20 per non training night stop.
After that, flexicrew wage for the remainder of their first year. £43 per block hour, £150 per standby. Net could be anything from £1800 in a quiet winter month to £4000 in Summer.
Then it's onto the NEC's SO contract for a year, at the moment around £40k. No flight pay.
I'm personally quite positive towards the NEC, but I do believe in getting the truth out there so people can make the best decisions and for the majority the figures aren't as high as Bealzebub posted.
£1200 a month subsistence (so it's net) for the first 8 months, with zero allowances apart from £20 per non training night stop.
After that, flexicrew wage for the remainder of their first year. £43 per block hour, £150 per standby. Net could be anything from £1800 in a quiet winter month to £4000 in Summer.
Then it's onto the NEC's SO contract for a year, at the moment around £40k. No flight pay.
I'm personally quite positive towards the NEC, but I do believe in getting the truth out there so people can make the best decisions and for the majority the figures aren't as high as Bealzebub posted.
-£1200 per month for first 8 months
-Flexicrew (scheduled block hours) for the next 4 months, or however long it takes for you to get a permanent contract where is suitable for you.
-NEC as mentioned, although odds are this will be a 75% contract (2w on 2w off during winter timetable)
-Presumably NEC 100% when available and onto the company payscales.
If you come through CTC Wings or the MPL programme, expect the 'repayment' of the bond to come at a sacrifice of your before-tax salary and only if you stay UK based when you go permanent. E.g. salary of £40k and a bond repayment of ~£10k means that £30k is paid as taxed salary and the remainder as untaxed income. Works out as a small tax advantage rather than recovering the majority your training costs as some marketing spiels may imply.
-Flexicrew (scheduled block hours) for the next 4 months, or however long it takes for you to get a permanent contract where is suitable for you.
-NEC as mentioned, although odds are this will be a 75% contract (2w on 2w off during winter timetable)
-Presumably NEC 100% when available and onto the company payscales.
If you come through CTC Wings or the MPL programme, expect the 'repayment' of the bond to come at a sacrifice of your before-tax salary and only if you stay UK based when you go permanent. E.g. salary of £40k and a bond repayment of ~£10k means that £30k is paid as taxed salary and the remainder as untaxed income. Works out as a small tax advantage rather than recovering the majority your training costs as some marketing spiels may imply.
Last edited by FullyFullyReady; 23rd Dec 2014 at 12:26. Reason: Clarity
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MSN001
Just as a matter of interest how long will it be before you are trainning debt free ?
I ask this because a PPL student of mine as passed the CTC assessment and is thinking of going along the CTC route. Anyone can do the theoretical sums on debt repayment but you seem to be one of the few willing to give truthful practical answers.
I ask this because a PPL student of mine as passed the CTC assessment and is thinking of going along the CTC route. Anyone can do the theoretical sums on debt repayment but you seem to be one of the few willing to give truthful practical answers.
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With respect....
A monthly loan repayment of over £1000 for the first three years?
To simply break into a professional career?
Good grief.
So you pay 12000 a year before deductions, and for three consecutive years? Surely, that is madness to even consider...
Thats not a strong position to pass through, notwithstanding the "stepping stone jobs" are now virtually the only jobs left in the market.
The arrangement at Monarch WAS possibly one of the very few "deals" worth entertaining, but things now changed recently. The company has taken a new direction.
A monthly loan repayment of over £1000 for the first three years?
To simply break into a professional career?
Good grief.
So you pay 12000 a year before deductions, and for three consecutive years? Surely, that is madness to even consider...
Thats not a strong position to pass through, notwithstanding the "stepping stone jobs" are now virtually the only jobs left in the market.
The arrangement at Monarch WAS possibly one of the very few "deals" worth entertaining, but things now changed recently. The company has taken a new direction.
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Let's try and explain how it works:
Your loan
It depends on each individual and the bank you borrow from. Repayments are normally done in 7 years and they could be as high as 1200 pounds per month. But it changes from person to person. I did not have to borrow the whole amount and I am paying around 750 pounds a month.
Your bond (I).
The first thing you need to know is that CTC (or your airline) are never ever ever going to pay for your training. You paid for your training, you did not lend them 79.000 with the hope of getting it back later. As stated above, CTC are very good at making people think that money is still yours and that your are getting it on top of your salary. More about this later.
your initial salary
It depends entirely on which airline you go to (if you are ever selected by one, it is important to note that CTC cadet placement is nowhere near 99% nowadays).
- In some airlines you can expect a 6 month placement (especially Easyjet) on 1200 pounds per month net, and maybe a Flexicrew contract after that (paid by the hour). I am aware that Flexicrew is limited to a few months now, but a few years ago a CTC cadet under a flexicrew contract flying a lot could make between 22K and 35K net, depending on base and hours flown. After that, expect a permanent contract.
- In other airlines you might join as a DEP, and therefore your income could be higher. In one way or another, expect a "cadet salary" for the first 2-3 years, which is normally a normal First Officer salary reduced by around 10K a year. It would not be unrealistic to think that that initial salary is around 40K a year. However, in most airlines you would not join on a 100% contract, but a reduced 75%, which means you will be doing for instance 2 months on 2 months off in the winter. In that case your salary might be reduced to something like 32K. Flight pay and allowances might be paid on top of that.
Important: chances are that you will join an airline with the 6 month placement. More and more airlines are going down that route now, and I would not be surprised if more of them followed the flexicrew route.
Your bond (II)
Now we know how much we are going to get. What happens with the bond? Well your bond is only repaid when you start a permanent contract in the UK. Therefore bond repayments could start from day 1 (very unlikely) or never (if you go, let's say, to EZY Swiss). Normally they would start from the second year. But how do they work?
Bond repayments are nothing more than a tax advantage. This is very complicated and there is no need to know everything about it, but I can try and explain it with a few words.
1. The bond repayments are made over a period of 7 years (normally) and do not equal the exact amount of your bond (whatever it might be, currently I think is around 85K). They are higher because they are made of capital + interests. Again, this does not mean they are throwing free money at you. It is just a way of having a tax advantage. For a bond of 79K, expect the bond repayments to amount around 13.000 pounds a year. That amount is not exactly tax free, because you pay NI on it.
2. Now imagine you were lucky to join London Airlines at 32K (on a 75% contract, no allowances taken into account). To understand your salary, you would need to take the bond off it. So 32K-13K (let's say for a 79K bond) equals 19K. So your salary will be made of a 19K normal taxable salary (Income tax + NI) + 13K (NI only).
3. This way of calculating your salary is very complex and will be explained to each individual by the airline.
4. So how much more do you get with bond repayments? Will you get back what you are paying for your loan? Simple answer, NO. For a 32K salary, expect to get around 250 pounds a month more than if you did not have any bond repayments. For a 44K, expect a bit more than 400 pounds. As you can see, they are far from the 700-800-1000-1200 you owe to the bank each month.
How long will it take for you to pay it back
Again, it depends on the individual. But let's make the assumption that one individual is placed on a 6 month placement followed by 18 months on a cadet scale at 75% (I will asume a 35K salary for this with allowances included). After that, let's imagine a full first officer salary of 52K (with allowances included). Let's assume as well that that person owes 1000 pounds each month to the bank.
1. First 6 months expect 1200 a month. You need that money to survive, so your parents or someone will have to help with the loan. You will not be able to save up.
2. 18 months at 75%. For a 35K you could expect 2500 pounds after tax (as I said, including flight pay). Extract the 1000 pounds you owe to the bank, you are left with 1500 for rent, car and food. Let's imagine you manage to save up 500 pounds each month (no travelling, no going out).
3. 5 years at 52K, I imagine this could mean a net pay of around 3500 pounds a month. That means you have 2500 pounds a month for you. Don't change your car, don't travel, don't go out, don't move house. Save up 1500 pounds a month.
So doing simple maths, let's assume the figures posted above. A loan of 1000 pounds a month means you owe 84K to the bank (including interests). If you save up save up save up save up for your entire flying life, you could save up:
- 3000 pounds on the first year.
- 6000 pounds on the second year.
- 18000 pounds thereafter.
So there's a point in which you could pay off the loan, and that in this situation would be around 3 years. So 3 years is the earliest possible time in which you could pay off the loan. But this is not realistic. Because you will go out, you will travel, you will make presents, you will want to upgrade your car and move house. From my experience, if you are lucky (my assumption was a lucky one, it could be much worse) you could expect to be paying the loan back for about 5 years. Some people take less time, some people take the full 7 years.
This has a HUGE impact in your life. Paying back the loan and possibly saving up to pay it back earlier means that your life will not be easy. You might not get the newest BMW, you might not be able to start saving up for a house until you are a bit older (and possibly when all of your friends have started buying properties or at least have a nice amount of money to put against the property). You might not be able to travel to NY every year as you might have thought or to live in a 5 bed house in London.
Please note that these calculations are not based on an airline in particular, so they would be different for everyone.
My advice
Minimize the loan. Save up as much money as you can before the course. Work somewhere and get a degree. CTC is probably (and sadly for many) the fastest way to the RHS, but it does and has not worked for many (more than you think). If it does not work for you (and it could well be the case) all you will have is a loan (yes, remember is your loan) to pay back. Do not ever secure the loan against your house, do not let it happen unless you own 3 properties or your grandfather's surname is Kardashian. Think about the extras as well. Think about the cost of TR, think about the cost of extra training, think about the "what ifs" if you are not placed in the hold pool or you simply don't go to an airline...
... But even if you do, think the hard work does not stop there. Starting your TR, line training and life on the line is a rewarding and exciting experience, but some people do not make it through there either. Your learning experience does not even finish with the end of line training, it goes on forever. Do not ever think "It's done, I made it".
Good luck
Your loan
It depends on each individual and the bank you borrow from. Repayments are normally done in 7 years and they could be as high as 1200 pounds per month. But it changes from person to person. I did not have to borrow the whole amount and I am paying around 750 pounds a month.
Your bond (I).
The first thing you need to know is that CTC (or your airline) are never ever ever going to pay for your training. You paid for your training, you did not lend them 79.000 with the hope of getting it back later. As stated above, CTC are very good at making people think that money is still yours and that your are getting it on top of your salary. More about this later.
your initial salary
It depends entirely on which airline you go to (if you are ever selected by one, it is important to note that CTC cadet placement is nowhere near 99% nowadays).
- In some airlines you can expect a 6 month placement (especially Easyjet) on 1200 pounds per month net, and maybe a Flexicrew contract after that (paid by the hour). I am aware that Flexicrew is limited to a few months now, but a few years ago a CTC cadet under a flexicrew contract flying a lot could make between 22K and 35K net, depending on base and hours flown. After that, expect a permanent contract.
- In other airlines you might join as a DEP, and therefore your income could be higher. In one way or another, expect a "cadet salary" for the first 2-3 years, which is normally a normal First Officer salary reduced by around 10K a year. It would not be unrealistic to think that that initial salary is around 40K a year. However, in most airlines you would not join on a 100% contract, but a reduced 75%, which means you will be doing for instance 2 months on 2 months off in the winter. In that case your salary might be reduced to something like 32K. Flight pay and allowances might be paid on top of that.
Important: chances are that you will join an airline with the 6 month placement. More and more airlines are going down that route now, and I would not be surprised if more of them followed the flexicrew route.
Your bond (II)
Now we know how much we are going to get. What happens with the bond? Well your bond is only repaid when you start a permanent contract in the UK. Therefore bond repayments could start from day 1 (very unlikely) or never (if you go, let's say, to EZY Swiss). Normally they would start from the second year. But how do they work?
Bond repayments are nothing more than a tax advantage. This is very complicated and there is no need to know everything about it, but I can try and explain it with a few words.
1. The bond repayments are made over a period of 7 years (normally) and do not equal the exact amount of your bond (whatever it might be, currently I think is around 85K). They are higher because they are made of capital + interests. Again, this does not mean they are throwing free money at you. It is just a way of having a tax advantage. For a bond of 79K, expect the bond repayments to amount around 13.000 pounds a year. That amount is not exactly tax free, because you pay NI on it.
2. Now imagine you were lucky to join London Airlines at 32K (on a 75% contract, no allowances taken into account). To understand your salary, you would need to take the bond off it. So 32K-13K (let's say for a 79K bond) equals 19K. So your salary will be made of a 19K normal taxable salary (Income tax + NI) + 13K (NI only).
3. This way of calculating your salary is very complex and will be explained to each individual by the airline.
4. So how much more do you get with bond repayments? Will you get back what you are paying for your loan? Simple answer, NO. For a 32K salary, expect to get around 250 pounds a month more than if you did not have any bond repayments. For a 44K, expect a bit more than 400 pounds. As you can see, they are far from the 700-800-1000-1200 you owe to the bank each month.
How long will it take for you to pay it back
Again, it depends on the individual. But let's make the assumption that one individual is placed on a 6 month placement followed by 18 months on a cadet scale at 75% (I will asume a 35K salary for this with allowances included). After that, let's imagine a full first officer salary of 52K (with allowances included). Let's assume as well that that person owes 1000 pounds each month to the bank.
1. First 6 months expect 1200 a month. You need that money to survive, so your parents or someone will have to help with the loan. You will not be able to save up.
2. 18 months at 75%. For a 35K you could expect 2500 pounds after tax (as I said, including flight pay). Extract the 1000 pounds you owe to the bank, you are left with 1500 for rent, car and food. Let's imagine you manage to save up 500 pounds each month (no travelling, no going out).
3. 5 years at 52K, I imagine this could mean a net pay of around 3500 pounds a month. That means you have 2500 pounds a month for you. Don't change your car, don't travel, don't go out, don't move house. Save up 1500 pounds a month.
So doing simple maths, let's assume the figures posted above. A loan of 1000 pounds a month means you owe 84K to the bank (including interests). If you save up save up save up save up for your entire flying life, you could save up:
- 3000 pounds on the first year.
- 6000 pounds on the second year.
- 18000 pounds thereafter.
So there's a point in which you could pay off the loan, and that in this situation would be around 3 years. So 3 years is the earliest possible time in which you could pay off the loan. But this is not realistic. Because you will go out, you will travel, you will make presents, you will want to upgrade your car and move house. From my experience, if you are lucky (my assumption was a lucky one, it could be much worse) you could expect to be paying the loan back for about 5 years. Some people take less time, some people take the full 7 years.
This has a HUGE impact in your life. Paying back the loan and possibly saving up to pay it back earlier means that your life will not be easy. You might not get the newest BMW, you might not be able to start saving up for a house until you are a bit older (and possibly when all of your friends have started buying properties or at least have a nice amount of money to put against the property). You might not be able to travel to NY every year as you might have thought or to live in a 5 bed house in London.
Please note that these calculations are not based on an airline in particular, so they would be different for everyone.
My advice
Minimize the loan. Save up as much money as you can before the course. Work somewhere and get a degree. CTC is probably (and sadly for many) the fastest way to the RHS, but it does and has not worked for many (more than you think). If it does not work for you (and it could well be the case) all you will have is a loan (yes, remember is your loan) to pay back. Do not ever secure the loan against your house, do not let it happen unless you own 3 properties or your grandfather's surname is Kardashian. Think about the extras as well. Think about the cost of TR, think about the cost of extra training, think about the "what ifs" if you are not placed in the hold pool or you simply don't go to an airline...
... But even if you do, think the hard work does not stop there. Starting your TR, line training and life on the line is a rewarding and exciting experience, but some people do not make it through there either. Your learning experience does not even finish with the end of line training, it goes on forever. Do not ever think "It's done, I made it".
Good luck
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Follow the Money
Having taken a quick look at the numbers given for a modular fATPL course in the UK with a small but reputable company and adding a bit for the extras that always happen I can only get to at the most about £55k add another £30k for a type rating and we are in the £85-90k range.
I was told the cost at CTC was IRO £105k at the moment if you end up with an airliner type rating.
I guess the extra £ 15-20 K is split between the training school and the airline that takes the pilot.
Do I have the numbers correct or am I missing something ?
I was told the cost at CTC was IRO £105k at the moment if you end up with an airliner type rating.
I guess the extra £ 15-20 K is split between the training school and the airline that takes the pilot.
Do I have the numbers correct or am I missing something ?
Current deal at Orange Airlines... (There were a few slight mistakes in one above so I have tried to clear it up here. This is the current deal for anyone leaving CTC today to join EZY in the UK)
On sucessful completion of an EZY assessment, you do the type rating etc, on the 1st day of the first month you have ANY flying duty (base training, jump seat - whatever) you will receive £1200 a month. This lasts for 8months and is all paid in ADVANCE of the month you have worked. No sector pay although there is a £20/night nightstop allowance given.
Then you go onto the flexicrew paid per hour routine, the current pay is £43 per PLANNED block hour. This means if you fly a duty that is planned for 10hrs and you manage to do it in 9.5hrs you will still be paid for the 10hrs. During this time your salary will be flexible and when we did it, you can expect to be paid around £3000 a month, possibly more depending on monthly block hours. Most will do this for approximately 4mths taking them upto the 1 years total experience with EZY (8mths @ 1200/mth + 4mths £43/planned block hour).
At the end of the first year of flying for EZY you will have an interview (perhaps with your base captain) and if you pass that successfully you will be offered a permanent contract as a Second Officer, this is 100% (not 75% as someone has said) and will spend a year on this salary (~£40,000 with NO sector pay but nightstop payments are given, you are entitled to all other benefits except salary ones. You receive pension contributions etc. If you DONT pass the interview (the majority do) then you will continue for another year as a flexicrew pilot and resit an assessment the following year.
After 1 year of employment as an SO, depending on requirement in your base (this is assumign you stay in the UK) you will either be offered 75% First Officer or 100% First officer (£35,000 or about £48,000 for 100%). Both are entitled to proper sector pay. Reality is that 75% FO is about the same as 100% Second Officer so if you get a 75% contract there isn't really much of a pay jump.
You then spend 2 years as an FO in either 75% or 100% or perhaps a variation and mixture of the two. Then you are promoted to SFO which is 100% and on a 5453 patterned roster.
To make it clear (assuming successful transition to Second Officer at first attempt)...
One thing worth noting, when you are on the 1200 a month you receive your money in advance, when you are a proper flexicrew you receive your salary in arrears (on the 15th of the FOLLOWING month, due to the flexible salary calculation). This can mean that you get paid on the 1st of Month 8 and will NOT be paid again until the 15th of month 10. This is about a 75 day gap in receiving any money/salary and should be planned for accordingly. We all found this period very frustrating. CTC offer a solution (being paid 1100 a month for 8 months and then 800 in month 9) but when faced with the challenges of a move to a new location in the UK, it didn't really make sense.
Others have explained the tax saving routine with the bond repayment, I have done it before so won't go into that here. Good luck!
On sucessful completion of an EZY assessment, you do the type rating etc, on the 1st day of the first month you have ANY flying duty (base training, jump seat - whatever) you will receive £1200 a month. This lasts for 8months and is all paid in ADVANCE of the month you have worked. No sector pay although there is a £20/night nightstop allowance given.
Then you go onto the flexicrew paid per hour routine, the current pay is £43 per PLANNED block hour. This means if you fly a duty that is planned for 10hrs and you manage to do it in 9.5hrs you will still be paid for the 10hrs. During this time your salary will be flexible and when we did it, you can expect to be paid around £3000 a month, possibly more depending on monthly block hours. Most will do this for approximately 4mths taking them upto the 1 years total experience with EZY (8mths @ 1200/mth + 4mths £43/planned block hour).
At the end of the first year of flying for EZY you will have an interview (perhaps with your base captain) and if you pass that successfully you will be offered a permanent contract as a Second Officer, this is 100% (not 75% as someone has said) and will spend a year on this salary (~£40,000 with NO sector pay but nightstop payments are given, you are entitled to all other benefits except salary ones. You receive pension contributions etc. If you DONT pass the interview (the majority do) then you will continue for another year as a flexicrew pilot and resit an assessment the following year.
After 1 year of employment as an SO, depending on requirement in your base (this is assumign you stay in the UK) you will either be offered 75% First Officer or 100% First officer (£35,000 or about £48,000 for 100%). Both are entitled to proper sector pay. Reality is that 75% FO is about the same as 100% Second Officer so if you get a 75% contract there isn't really much of a pay jump.
You then spend 2 years as an FO in either 75% or 100% or perhaps a variation and mixture of the two. Then you are promoted to SFO which is 100% and on a 5453 patterned roster.
To make it clear (assuming successful transition to Second Officer at first attempt)...
Months 1-8: £1200/mth (no sector pay, just a nightstop allowance)
Months 9-12: Flexicrew at perhaps £3000/mth (no sector pay, just a nightstop allowance)
Year 2: £40,000/yr (no sector pay, just a nightstop allowance)
Years 3-4: Either ~£35,000 or £48,000 (sector pay etc...)
Year 5+: Full SFO contract on a fixed pattern.
Months 9-12: Flexicrew at perhaps £3000/mth (no sector pay, just a nightstop allowance)
Year 2: £40,000/yr (no sector pay, just a nightstop allowance)
Years 3-4: Either ~£35,000 or £48,000 (sector pay etc...)
Year 5+: Full SFO contract on a fixed pattern.
One thing worth noting, when you are on the 1200 a month you receive your money in advance, when you are a proper flexicrew you receive your salary in arrears (on the 15th of the FOLLOWING month, due to the flexible salary calculation). This can mean that you get paid on the 1st of Month 8 and will NOT be paid again until the 15th of month 10. This is about a 75 day gap in receiving any money/salary and should be planned for accordingly. We all found this period very frustrating. CTC offer a solution (being paid 1100 a month for 8 months and then 800 in month 9) but when faced with the challenges of a move to a new location in the UK, it didn't really make sense.
Others have explained the tax saving routine with the bond repayment, I have done it before so won't go into that here. Good luck!
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so according to the latest info, and ive erred on the most favourable situation it is possible to attain should you go down the ezy route
In 4 years you could earn as a maximum £154600 prior to going onto the SFO scale? Then for the purpose of balance with a fifth year at standard airline SFO pay circa 52000 the absolute max total for 5 years, should my maths be correct could be as high as £206600
So that would be before deductions? and just for my clarity as I am not as up to speed as the posters on here either the curious/current cadets/ex cadets/experienced guys with good knowledge of CTC - as to what sections of the course and at what cost would this be to the trainee? Is it the full course PPL onwards? CPL onwards? Type training only? that you would subtract from the figure of £206600 for an arbitory 5 years outcome
Just trying to get an understanding of the financial outlay in total against the maximum salary...
It is clear that after this 5 year period and the debt is paid off that things become more rosy for the pilot, however 5 years is an awfully long time
In 4 years you could earn as a maximum £154600 prior to going onto the SFO scale? Then for the purpose of balance with a fifth year at standard airline SFO pay circa 52000 the absolute max total for 5 years, should my maths be correct could be as high as £206600
So that would be before deductions? and just for my clarity as I am not as up to speed as the posters on here either the curious/current cadets/ex cadets/experienced guys with good knowledge of CTC - as to what sections of the course and at what cost would this be to the trainee? Is it the full course PPL onwards? CPL onwards? Type training only? that you would subtract from the figure of £206600 for an arbitory 5 years outcome
Just trying to get an understanding of the financial outlay in total against the maximum salary...
It is clear that after this 5 year period and the debt is paid off that things become more rosy for the pilot, however 5 years is an awfully long time
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Three lions
I have to admire your optimism but as said above five years is a long time in aviation I have had three airlines go bust under me in three years and another one a long time before that, at a rough guess I am owed IRO £150 K by these airlines in terms of back pay and contracted redundancy payments that I will never see.
Any one embarking on a career as a pilot must have a plan B ( mine is actually a plan B1 !) for when at the whim of some airline policy maker the recruitment policy changes and pilots with your training background are no longer flavor of the week. It should be remembered that pilot recruting is the top of the tree as far as the human resorces department of concerned and each time the head of pilot recruting in HR changes the new boss is keen to introduce some new and updated policy just to be seen to be doing something, those who meet the last HR bosses targets are likely to be tomorrow's fish & chip wrapping.
Any one embarking on a career as a pilot must have a plan B ( mine is actually a plan B1 !) for when at the whim of some airline policy maker the recruitment policy changes and pilots with your training background are no longer flavor of the week. It should be remembered that pilot recruting is the top of the tree as far as the human resorces department of concerned and each time the head of pilot recruting in HR changes the new boss is keen to introduce some new and updated policy just to be seen to be doing something, those who meet the last HR bosses targets are likely to be tomorrow's fish & chip wrapping.
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A and C
It isnt my own optimism, I am also too long in the tooth for that, it I was merely attempting to paint a "best possible scenario" for earnings then look for a comparison against "training cost". I simply used the most generous of the information supplied on the thread. I dont have the minor detail of course costs at one of these schools, and dont understand which sections of the course are included. So it is difficult to make a comparison
JS
I disagree with your assumption that 5 years isnt a long time for someone between 18-21 with no commitments. 5 years is a long time in anyones eyes. whether your a youngster looking to enjoy life or you are established with commitments and ties and all the rest of it - there are disadvantages of owning a sizeable debt for 5 years whatever your age.
5 Years is a long time not to be able to get a mortgage, buy a flash motor, take your beau out and show them a good time, visit interesting places on hol and all the rest of it.
It isnt my own optimism, I am also too long in the tooth for that, it I was merely attempting to paint a "best possible scenario" for earnings then look for a comparison against "training cost". I simply used the most generous of the information supplied on the thread. I dont have the minor detail of course costs at one of these schools, and dont understand which sections of the course are included. So it is difficult to make a comparison
JS
I disagree with your assumption that 5 years isnt a long time for someone between 18-21 with no commitments. 5 years is a long time in anyones eyes. whether your a youngster looking to enjoy life or you are established with commitments and ties and all the rest of it - there are disadvantages of owning a sizeable debt for 5 years whatever your age.
5 Years is a long time not to be able to get a mortgage, buy a flash motor, take your beau out and show them a good time, visit interesting places on hol and all the rest of it.
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Cadet salaries at CTC
Hi guys.
This is my first post so please go lightly! Ha.
After close talks with my family we have come up with a method of funding pilot training whereby I would be taking out some £60k in loans from BBVA and fund the rest ourselves. However this wouldn't be able to stretch much past the £89k turnkey figure and living expenses.
I am looking for some more information on the salaries once you have finished the ctc training. I have looked into the Ez salaries and heard its £1200 a month for the first 8 months. Taking loan repayments into account If successful on this I wouldn't be left with much each month for other things.
Does anybody have any information on other salaries through the CTC placement/ partner airlines or any info on who charges for Type Rtings and if so how much. I'm in a tough position atm with a fairly lucrative job but this is and has been my dream since.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
This is my first post so please go lightly! Ha.
After close talks with my family we have come up with a method of funding pilot training whereby I would be taking out some £60k in loans from BBVA and fund the rest ourselves. However this wouldn't be able to stretch much past the £89k turnkey figure and living expenses.
I am looking for some more information on the salaries once you have finished the ctc training. I have looked into the Ez salaries and heard its £1200 a month for the first 8 months. Taking loan repayments into account If successful on this I wouldn't be left with much each month for other things.
Does anybody have any information on other salaries through the CTC placement/ partner airlines or any info on who charges for Type Rtings and if so how much. I'm in a tough position atm with a fairly lucrative job but this is and has been my dream since.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Have you read this thread or just come in and asked your question?
I know it's hard to find out what you need to know. The likes of CTC will never tell you all of the facts. They tend to guild the lily, after all they're in the business of selling flight training. They're looking for customers.
There's some good info here.
One of the best things you could do is find a good cross section of people who have been down the route you intend to go and see how they got on, listen to their experiences and then decide if that's where you want to.
Remember dreams and reality are very often poles apart.Your dream may not match reality.
Frankly I'm not sure that spending the amounts of money mentioned coupled with the employment options on offer is a smart idea.
I know it's hard to find out what you need to know. The likes of CTC will never tell you all of the facts. They tend to guild the lily, after all they're in the business of selling flight training. They're looking for customers.
There's some good info here.
One of the best things you could do is find a good cross section of people who have been down the route you intend to go and see how they got on, listen to their experiences and then decide if that's where you want to.
Remember dreams and reality are very often poles apart.Your dream may not match reality.
Frankly I'm not sure that spending the amounts of money mentioned coupled with the employment options on offer is a smart idea.
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Cottpilot - If £89,000 is a stretch I would perhaps consider waiting and saving at little more.
It is not only easyjet where you are given £1200 per month as a living allowance for 8 months but that is where the majority of people are placed.
Looking briefly at the EZY MPL scheme - £69k + £20k initial training + £19k advanced training. So £108k. Plus CTC recommend £5k pa living costs = £118k over 2 years training.
CTC Wings + Easyjet type rating = £69k + £20k + £11.5k TR + living costs = £110.5k
As others have said previously, for the first year your income will not cover your outgoings and you need to assume you will not be based near home and so will need to rent a room.
My income in the first year was £11300 net. I’m guessing your loan repayments to be circa £9-10k pa, plus £5-6k for a room and similar for living costs (fuel & food). So you’ll need another £10k to balance the books.
So I would budget £120-130k to get you through training your first year of flying. I hope that helps.
It is not only easyjet where you are given £1200 per month as a living allowance for 8 months but that is where the majority of people are placed.
Looking briefly at the EZY MPL scheme - £69k + £20k initial training + £19k advanced training. So £108k. Plus CTC recommend £5k pa living costs = £118k over 2 years training.
CTC Wings + Easyjet type rating = £69k + £20k + £11.5k TR + living costs = £110.5k
As others have said previously, for the first year your income will not cover your outgoings and you need to assume you will not be based near home and so will need to rent a room.
My income in the first year was £11300 net. I’m guessing your loan repayments to be circa £9-10k pa, plus £5-6k for a room and similar for living costs (fuel & food). So you’ll need another £10k to balance the books.
So I would budget £120-130k to get you through training your first year of flying. I hope that helps.
