Qatar Airways " Think long and Hard"
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And one last point to remember
Most of the people who post on here have an axe to grind or are of the negative nature.
For all those that post negative things on here, many many more are happy to be in Doha, working, feeding their family and can not be arsed reading this forum. So please bare in mind that not everyone feels the same way that most who post here do.
Although what is posted here maybe true, you are only hearing mainly the negatives about Qatar and Qatar Airways. I fly with many many people who are sooo pleased to be here and know how lucky they are to have a job.
As mentioned before. Its the Middle East. If you remember that and prepare well for your training, keep your head down, you will be fine.
As mentioned before, if you don't like it, do your time, hand your notice in and leave.
If you already have a good job and happy, stay where you are.
If you want to move from Turbo Prop to a jet, here is a good place to do that.
If you have no job, here is a good place to come if you have nowhere else better to go.
If you are frightened of a bit of hard work, don't bother coming as you will fly a lot and mainly in the dark.
Take it or leave it. Whatever you decide, don't moan, very few are interested in listening to you, and in this I mean your colleagues.
Most of the people who post on here have an axe to grind or are of the negative nature.
For all those that post negative things on here, many many more are happy to be in Doha, working, feeding their family and can not be arsed reading this forum. So please bare in mind that not everyone feels the same way that most who post here do.
Although what is posted here maybe true, you are only hearing mainly the negatives about Qatar and Qatar Airways. I fly with many many people who are sooo pleased to be here and know how lucky they are to have a job.
As mentioned before. Its the Middle East. If you remember that and prepare well for your training, keep your head down, you will be fine.
As mentioned before, if you don't like it, do your time, hand your notice in and leave.
If you already have a good job and happy, stay where you are.
If you want to move from Turbo Prop to a jet, here is a good place to do that.
If you have no job, here is a good place to come if you have nowhere else better to go.
If you are frightened of a bit of hard work, don't bother coming as you will fly a lot and mainly in the dark.
Take it or leave it. Whatever you decide, don't moan, very few are interested in listening to you, and in this I mean your colleagues.
Last edited by Black Pudding; 10th Apr 2013 at 07:33.
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Interesting perspective
Good stories on this site though after being in this industry for MANY decades, find them a bit lame. Suspect that there is not a single major airline who does not have similar tales dogging their reputations. An airline employee would be the first to admit that things go off the rails. It is a complex business that depends on technology, trained employees, and even worse, Government co-operation. So what could go wrong? Qatar Airways isn't perfect, but in general, believe it is generally considered in a positive way by the majority of their customers. May be a wee bit prejudiced as they currently (and reliably) supply me with my monthly remuneration.
Not having met Mr. Akbar Al Baker, it would not be fair to provide you with an evaluation. Would be a bit surprised to find an individual who is capable of managing such an extensive empire to NOT be somewhat on edge.
In summary. So far would say this has been a positive place to work with the majority of people being excellent and with the expected few individuals requiring remedial humanity training. Fleets do NOT provide similar working conditions so can only relate my personal experience. Good aircraft with reasonable rosters and a reliable income at the end of the day. If things do not work out, well, there are other options out there. For the moment this is a satisfying and rewarding position.
Not having met Mr. Akbar Al Baker, it would not be fair to provide you with an evaluation. Would be a bit surprised to find an individual who is capable of managing such an extensive empire to NOT be somewhat on edge.
In summary. So far would say this has been a positive place to work with the majority of people being excellent and with the expected few individuals requiring remedial humanity training. Fleets do NOT provide similar working conditions so can only relate my personal experience. Good aircraft with reasonable rosters and a reliable income at the end of the day. If things do not work out, well, there are other options out there. For the moment this is a satisfying and rewarding position.
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Qatar Airways
It looks like these people intend on taking QR to the cleaners. Well written articles with particular resonance for those who have had a bad experience with them. It looks like its about to launch a serious campaign. I will certainly be keeping an eye on the site Don't Fly Qatar Airways | Fake Star Airline!.
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It true all airlines have some some negative feedback but not to the extent of QR. The 5 Star status awarded by Skytrax is meaningless (see the UK Advertising Standards Authority adjudication on Skytrax ). This is a commercial business funded by advertising and airline membership. QR certainly have lots of money to spend. There is no transparency and it has been suggested that Airline of the Year and awards go the biggest contributors. Skytrax can is not regarded as independent and is very secretive . Ownership is not disclosed.
On employment relations front I get the distinct impression the regime is harsh and unforgiving. From reading these forums it looks like their is a culture of blame and fear. The accounts here show interference with personal freedoms, lack of compassion and an inclination to discard employees without much forethought.
On employment relations front I get the distinct impression the regime is harsh and unforgiving. From reading these forums it looks like their is a culture of blame and fear. The accounts here show interference with personal freedoms, lack of compassion and an inclination to discard employees without much forethought.
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Counterpoint
Hi Nomad:
That was exactly the impression I had. Took a chance and am now employed here. This is definitely not North American style management, neither is it as overbearing as many of those may indicate on this forum. Not sure who they are or where they are, but if they are actually here, would suggest that possibly they are the few.
This place does make it share of management faux-pas (would the new airport be a good example). There have been individuals who have not been treated well and the current managers are not trained or educated enough as administrators to be able to admit and then rectify their errors. Previous airlines have had the same problems.
Am unable to determine if this airline generates more customer complaints than any other though again, from previous experience, would strongly believe that this is not true. If you really want to review customer complaints, track American Airlines, Aeroflot, and more recently, Singapore. As for censorship, how about "the airline that shall not be named"?
Have heard the stories concerning Oxford for quite some time. It would be a shame if it was a "bought" award though after reading the article, am not convinced that this is so. Imagine the British press will be onto this in their usual bulldog manner and if true, we should see further articles supplying some actual proof if Qatar Airways collusion.
As I have stated in previous messages, Qatar Airways has been a pleasant place to work, so far. You have touched on some issues that are present, but not in any more abundance than other airlines. It is not perfect, but I have a lovely place to live, great aircraft to fly, reliable and almost adequate remuneration. The roster is tolerable and expectations reasonable. Not a bad skit in my estimation.
That was exactly the impression I had. Took a chance and am now employed here. This is definitely not North American style management, neither is it as overbearing as many of those may indicate on this forum. Not sure who they are or where they are, but if they are actually here, would suggest that possibly they are the few.
This place does make it share of management faux-pas (would the new airport be a good example). There have been individuals who have not been treated well and the current managers are not trained or educated enough as administrators to be able to admit and then rectify their errors. Previous airlines have had the same problems.
Am unable to determine if this airline generates more customer complaints than any other though again, from previous experience, would strongly believe that this is not true. If you really want to review customer complaints, track American Airlines, Aeroflot, and more recently, Singapore. As for censorship, how about "the airline that shall not be named"?
Have heard the stories concerning Oxford for quite some time. It would be a shame if it was a "bought" award though after reading the article, am not convinced that this is so. Imagine the British press will be onto this in their usual bulldog manner and if true, we should see further articles supplying some actual proof if Qatar Airways collusion.
As I have stated in previous messages, Qatar Airways has been a pleasant place to work, so far. You have touched on some issues that are present, but not in any more abundance than other airlines. It is not perfect, but I have a lovely place to live, great aircraft to fly, reliable and almost adequate remuneration. The roster is tolerable and expectations reasonable. Not a bad skit in my estimation.
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Counterpoints
Flytdeck
You are beginning to sound like a PR spokesperson assigned for QR damage limitation. I am have no doubt you like living in Doha, you probably have never had it so good. I am glad you are over the moon with your employer but from this and other threads it seems your positive endorsements are the minority view.
The thread was started by somebody who wished to highlight issues from experience and forewarn people. Others a have relayed the appalling treatment they received including some whose lives and family lives have been seriously affected and you appear to be undermining them.
It is reasonable to reply and speak for yourself but to counterpoint every contribution you perceive as negative to QR looks like you are bum*icking your managers and you have told them Flytdeck is your username on this forum. I had to say that but I am sorry I said it because otherwise you do sound like a genuinely nice guy. Please stop vouching for these people so strongly. You've been with them a short while and eventually the odds are they will sc*ew you.
You are beginning to sound like a PR spokesperson assigned for QR damage limitation. I am have no doubt you like living in Doha, you probably have never had it so good. I am glad you are over the moon with your employer but from this and other threads it seems your positive endorsements are the minority view.
The thread was started by somebody who wished to highlight issues from experience and forewarn people. Others a have relayed the appalling treatment they received including some whose lives and family lives have been seriously affected and you appear to be undermining them.
It is reasonable to reply and speak for yourself but to counterpoint every contribution you perceive as negative to QR looks like you are bum*icking your managers and you have told them Flytdeck is your username on this forum. I had to say that but I am sorry I said it because otherwise you do sound like a genuinely nice guy. Please stop vouching for these people so strongly. You've been with them a short while and eventually the odds are they will sc*ew you.
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QR discussions on pprune always end up like this - the 320 guys and the FO's on all fleets give the place an absolute slagging, then a few 777 DEC's stick their heads above the parapets and say its not actually that bad. Both camps are of course telling the truth as it relates to them. There is a massive difference in roster patterns, lifestyle and the way the company treats you, according to the fleet and the seat that you are in.
But considering there have been numerous cases of people being promised widebody commands in the interview and then finding out when they got to Doha they were actually going on the 320, or being told they were just going in this "temporary" flea pit of an apartment until their villa was ready, and two years later still waiting, is it really a risk you want to take even for the DEC job?
But considering there have been numerous cases of people being promised widebody commands in the interview and then finding out when they got to Doha they were actually going on the 320, or being told they were just going in this "temporary" flea pit of an apartment until their villa was ready, and two years later still waiting, is it really a risk you want to take even for the DEC job?
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Flytdeck having though about my earlier post I would like to apologise and retract it. Sorry! I sincerely mean it.
Luke SkyToddler you are right, they make promises and once they've got you there they renege on the agreement. If you speak up you are fired and blacklisted from entering the country. If you are unfairly dismissed you have no recourse to anything. Your agreement is under Qatari law. There is no independent judiciary. The owner of QR also owns the courts and the state. The truth is either take what you get and be quite or loose everything. If you understand this and accept it with your eyes fully open then that's fine. If you are hoodwinked and find out too late then you have reason to be angry and bitter. BTW any financial loss you make will not be recoverable.
Luke SkyToddler you are right, they make promises and once they've got you there they renege on the agreement. If you speak up you are fired and blacklisted from entering the country. If you are unfairly dismissed you have no recourse to anything. Your agreement is under Qatari law. There is no independent judiciary. The owner of QR also owns the courts and the state. The truth is either take what you get and be quite or loose everything. If you understand this and accept it with your eyes fully open then that's fine. If you are hoodwinked and find out too late then you have reason to be angry and bitter. BTW any financial loss you make will not be recoverable.
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Nomad787: Apology accepted. For some reason these threads do tend to degenerate into personal name-calling. Nature of the medium I suppose.
Completely agree that one must come here fully prepared to abandon ship if contract measures are not fulfilled. The housing thing is a non-issue as we are expected to find our own accommodation on the allowance they are paying. Personally I found their inability to assist with housing location and negotiation very deficient. Hopefully this issue has been addressed.
Promises of fleet type and upgrades must be in writing and are legally binding, even in Qatari courts. Vague intimations of benefits do not cut it as they may be made in good faith yet not realized.
There is a definite difference between fleet types and I am happy to work on a wide body aircraft. Last summer was a bit rough, but it has been quite reasonable since last September. Not sure how long that will last with the new aircraft arriving. The narrow-body pilots do appear to work much more "diligently".
As mentioned before, management actions are not consistent and have led to individual actions far more severe than would be considered appropriate in western airlines. Not sure if this comes from the relative immaturity of this airline or the culture. There is definitely a level of paranoia not present elsewhere not only among the staff, but among the managers. This does add to the stress level on the line. Stress does not lend itself well to line operations and it often takes a bit of effort to overcome the "wall of suspicion", something that cannot be tolerated on a flight deck.
It is probably a good thing to have the occasional wide-body DEC "gophering" once in awhile. We certainly are not here to undermine anyone, only lend our individual perspective to the thread. Every pilot who elects to come here will face their own difficulties and achieve their own rewards. Coming from a legacy carrier, it is admittedly more work but unlike the previous company, I am assured there will be a paycheque every month. Working to THEIR rules and doing the necessary groundwork to stay current should keep the paycheques coming. There likely are easier and more forthcoming places to work, but for me, this is a pretty good gig.
Completely agree that one must come here fully prepared to abandon ship if contract measures are not fulfilled. The housing thing is a non-issue as we are expected to find our own accommodation on the allowance they are paying. Personally I found their inability to assist with housing location and negotiation very deficient. Hopefully this issue has been addressed.
Promises of fleet type and upgrades must be in writing and are legally binding, even in Qatari courts. Vague intimations of benefits do not cut it as they may be made in good faith yet not realized.
There is a definite difference between fleet types and I am happy to work on a wide body aircraft. Last summer was a bit rough, but it has been quite reasonable since last September. Not sure how long that will last with the new aircraft arriving. The narrow-body pilots do appear to work much more "diligently".
As mentioned before, management actions are not consistent and have led to individual actions far more severe than would be considered appropriate in western airlines. Not sure if this comes from the relative immaturity of this airline or the culture. There is definitely a level of paranoia not present elsewhere not only among the staff, but among the managers. This does add to the stress level on the line. Stress does not lend itself well to line operations and it often takes a bit of effort to overcome the "wall of suspicion", something that cannot be tolerated on a flight deck.
It is probably a good thing to have the occasional wide-body DEC "gophering" once in awhile. We certainly are not here to undermine anyone, only lend our individual perspective to the thread. Every pilot who elects to come here will face their own difficulties and achieve their own rewards. Coming from a legacy carrier, it is admittedly more work but unlike the previous company, I am assured there will be a paycheque every month. Working to THEIR rules and doing the necessary groundwork to stay current should keep the paycheques coming. There likely are easier and more forthcoming places to work, but for me, this is a pretty good gig.
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Skytrax
Interest read apparently a company has submitted a 10 page complaint against Qatar Airways and Skytrax to the Advertising Standards Authority.
7. False advertising/SKYTRAX - Don't Fly Qatar Airways. I
7. False advertising/SKYTRAX - Don't Fly Qatar Airways. I
Last edited by sentosa1942; 20th Apr 2013 at 08:06.
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Qatar airways always prone to increase the quality of live of the crew...:
-The possibility of bidding for 8 days off in a row has been recently removed!
Sure it will make a lot of people happy,especially the one with family abroad
( the only great think we had here in the roster)
Another step backward.
-The possibility of bidding for 8 days off in a row has been recently removed!
Sure it will make a lot of people happy,especially the one with family abroad
( the only great think we had here in the roster)
Another step backward.
Last edited by salamalikum2; 20th Apr 2013 at 08:23.
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I came here as DEC wide-body three years ago. A lot of what is written here is true, some seems exaggerated. My wife and myself maintained a positive attitude here until eventually it was worn down by a process of slow abrasion, and it was not the job that led to this. But I will start with a bit about the job.
If you do an unstable approach, and go-around, nothing will happen. If you land from an unstable approach, both of you are in line for the sack. In my time here I have had no problems at all at work, and if you do what the company wants and keep your opinions to yourself, it's a pretty easy job. The aircraft are reliable, the roster is manageable, and the day to day operation of the airline runs smoothly.
The training has improved markedly in the time I have been here, but there's still a few trainers who think the best way to train is to prove to you how well they know the manuals and how much cleverer they are than you.
As long as you understand that management are not in the least interested in individuals, you won't be disappointed. The vast majority of pilots here came because their previous employer went bankrupt. The company has no problem getting applications, and until this changes, their attitude will remain one of thinking that they are doing you a favour by employing you. The recent reduction to a maximum consecutive amount of days-off from 8 to 4 has no practical purpose whatsoever. Read into that what you will.
However, I'll not go on about working conditions any more, as that has been well covered in previous posts. For my wife and myself, the main issue is not the airline, but the location. Unless you like malls and getting drunk in very expensive hotel bars or nightclubs, there is very little to do here outside your home. If you have a high-maintenance wife, she'll love it, as there is plenty of bling to spend your money on.....not much else though.
The temperature is over 40 degrees for 6 months of the year, so you spend the vast majority of your time air-conditioned. The summers are so hot that people end up losing their sun-tans from never going outside. Walking anywhere is almost impossible due to no sidewalks, heat and dangerous traffic. The air quality is very poor year round and the dust gets absolutely everywhere - beware if you're an asthma sufferer.
During Ramadan, which is currently mid-summer, you will be arrested if you are seen drinking water, eating or smoking outside your house or even in your car during the day, so most people (including the locals) stay indoors in daylight hours for 4 weeks. The migrant workers on the roads and construction sites however are expected to work all day with no food or water, often with the inevitable consequences. Two years ago during Ramadan a guy knocked on our door with severe dehydration, and if we hadn't brought him in and given him some water I am not sure he would have survived much longer. The traffic is horrendous, and the standard of driving among the worst I have ever encountered (I include India and the whole of Africa in this assessment). Over-taking can and will happen from any lane (or from off-road) at any time, with no indicators used, often while half-way round a roundabout. White Land-cruisers will drive an inch behind you flashing their lights at you to move over, regardless of whether there is anywhere to move over to. The driver will most likely be talking on his mobile phone and have a kid in his lap while doing this. Cars will leave the road, drive along the dirt to pass a line of cars, and force their way in front of you, while pretending not to notice you. If you have an accident involving a local, it is your fault.
You need an exit visa to leave the country, and forget about a second passport, as if that does not show an entry stamp and tourist visa it won't get you out of the country. The badly-paid migrant workers who make up the vast majority of the population have absolutely no rights. If they abscond from their employer (who holds their passport) for any reason whatsoever, they will go to jail. If their employer does not give them written permission to leave the country, they cannot leave. They have no redress to any organisation that protects their human rights.
I could go on, but for anyone thinking of moving here. especially with a family, there's a lot more to consider than just the job or the company. A vast amount of wives do not make it past one year before returning home, leaving hubby to try and commute as best as possible (which has just been made more difficult by reducing the max consecutive days off from 8 to 4). I'd estimate at least 50% of married pilots here longer than one year (and that's probably a conservative estimate) are now here on their own. I'm one of the lucky ones, but it's getting close to me joining that 50%.....time to move on. The education allowance does not cover two kids school fees here, and places are hard to come by, so if you're moving here with kids you need to start looking at schooling sooner rather than later. One captain who joined recently had to pay a years school fees up front before his joining date, and the company has refused to reimburse him as he paid before his date of commencement of employment. Kids tend to like it here until they reach about 14-15 yrs old, at which point they seem to suddenly turn to hating it.
For single folks, life here is much easier, and if you are young and like partying, restaurants, and malls (and are not particularly interested in saving money), it's probably not too bad.
Overall it's an extremely false existence in a materialistic world and any exonerating factors pall very quickly.
If you do an unstable approach, and go-around, nothing will happen. If you land from an unstable approach, both of you are in line for the sack. In my time here I have had no problems at all at work, and if you do what the company wants and keep your opinions to yourself, it's a pretty easy job. The aircraft are reliable, the roster is manageable, and the day to day operation of the airline runs smoothly.
The training has improved markedly in the time I have been here, but there's still a few trainers who think the best way to train is to prove to you how well they know the manuals and how much cleverer they are than you.
As long as you understand that management are not in the least interested in individuals, you won't be disappointed. The vast majority of pilots here came because their previous employer went bankrupt. The company has no problem getting applications, and until this changes, their attitude will remain one of thinking that they are doing you a favour by employing you. The recent reduction to a maximum consecutive amount of days-off from 8 to 4 has no practical purpose whatsoever. Read into that what you will.
However, I'll not go on about working conditions any more, as that has been well covered in previous posts. For my wife and myself, the main issue is not the airline, but the location. Unless you like malls and getting drunk in very expensive hotel bars or nightclubs, there is very little to do here outside your home. If you have a high-maintenance wife, she'll love it, as there is plenty of bling to spend your money on.....not much else though.
The temperature is over 40 degrees for 6 months of the year, so you spend the vast majority of your time air-conditioned. The summers are so hot that people end up losing their sun-tans from never going outside. Walking anywhere is almost impossible due to no sidewalks, heat and dangerous traffic. The air quality is very poor year round and the dust gets absolutely everywhere - beware if you're an asthma sufferer.
During Ramadan, which is currently mid-summer, you will be arrested if you are seen drinking water, eating or smoking outside your house or even in your car during the day, so most people (including the locals) stay indoors in daylight hours for 4 weeks. The migrant workers on the roads and construction sites however are expected to work all day with no food or water, often with the inevitable consequences. Two years ago during Ramadan a guy knocked on our door with severe dehydration, and if we hadn't brought him in and given him some water I am not sure he would have survived much longer. The traffic is horrendous, and the standard of driving among the worst I have ever encountered (I include India and the whole of Africa in this assessment). Over-taking can and will happen from any lane (or from off-road) at any time, with no indicators used, often while half-way round a roundabout. White Land-cruisers will drive an inch behind you flashing their lights at you to move over, regardless of whether there is anywhere to move over to. The driver will most likely be talking on his mobile phone and have a kid in his lap while doing this. Cars will leave the road, drive along the dirt to pass a line of cars, and force their way in front of you, while pretending not to notice you. If you have an accident involving a local, it is your fault.
You need an exit visa to leave the country, and forget about a second passport, as if that does not show an entry stamp and tourist visa it won't get you out of the country. The badly-paid migrant workers who make up the vast majority of the population have absolutely no rights. If they abscond from their employer (who holds their passport) for any reason whatsoever, they will go to jail. If their employer does not give them written permission to leave the country, they cannot leave. They have no redress to any organisation that protects their human rights.
I could go on, but for anyone thinking of moving here. especially with a family, there's a lot more to consider than just the job or the company. A vast amount of wives do not make it past one year before returning home, leaving hubby to try and commute as best as possible (which has just been made more difficult by reducing the max consecutive days off from 8 to 4). I'd estimate at least 50% of married pilots here longer than one year (and that's probably a conservative estimate) are now here on their own. I'm one of the lucky ones, but it's getting close to me joining that 50%.....time to move on. The education allowance does not cover two kids school fees here, and places are hard to come by, so if you're moving here with kids you need to start looking at schooling sooner rather than later. One captain who joined recently had to pay a years school fees up front before his joining date, and the company has refused to reimburse him as he paid before his date of commencement of employment. Kids tend to like it here until they reach about 14-15 yrs old, at which point they seem to suddenly turn to hating it.
For single folks, life here is much easier, and if you are young and like partying, restaurants, and malls (and are not particularly interested in saving money), it's probably not too bad.
Overall it's an extremely false existence in a materialistic world and any exonerating factors pall very quickly.