PPRuNe Forums

Go Back   PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Forgotten your Username/Password?

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 28th Dec 2012, 08:02   #21 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 14 days away 14 at home
Posts: 716
If you compare them to Nazis on here I wander what your attitude to the staff must have been and can completely understand why you got this treatment. Me thinks you are telling porkies on here and not telling the full story big time....
No RYR for me is offline   Reply
Old 28th Dec 2012, 08:04   #22 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Planet Earth (sometimes)
Posts: 2,513
Wirbelsturm

Quote:
I have had bags turn up late on a couple of ST flights with BA (I use it alot!). The bags have always been delivered, albeit late, and I have never had a claim refused/not refunded.
Likewise, similar has happened to me twice in the last 10 years ( FWIW less than 1% of my ST flights). On both occasions I was on standby travel and even so the bags were delivered by courier/cab the next day.

Like you and others I suspect there's more to this than outlined in the initial post.
wiggy is online now   Reply
Old 28th Dec 2012, 08:18   #23 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Cape Town / UK / Europe
Posts: 732
When I used to travel on ST tickets (various airlines) we were generally better treated than paying pax! Happy days!
Tableview is offline   Reply
Old 28th Dec 2012, 21:13   #24 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK/Far East
Posts: 35
Thumbs down Genuine incident.....

I seem to have stirred up a 'hornets nest' of some people doubting my facts and assertion on this loss of concessions.

I have taken this matter up the chain of Management to the top and unless I take legal action, I am quite simply without my long-service concessions.

My reference to 'nazi' was said with 'shadenfreude'....perhaps there are too many cultural differences with folks taking that too seriously perhaps?

However, when one has no right of appeal, such as in my case taken up to B.A. C.E.O. level, this matter just stinks quite frankly.

I luckily have the wherewithal to pay for commercial J tickets on other airlines. I just wanted to use what as I see as a well-earned annual 'retirement' concession once annually with 'firm' onload priority...and done with research into 'loads' etc., My interest was to see if this had happened to others.

Many thanks to those others who have e-mailed me privately. It seems to me somewhat sad that perhaps there is a very strong culture of 'fear' from current management in what some people think (via PR perhaps?) of as a 'good' company to work for. It certainly was pretty good in my days there, with 'sensibility' ruling the day most often.

I can see no logic whatsoever in removing my concessions, as I genuinely hold Gold (or equiv.) top-tier membership of One World, Star and Skyteam alliances. I'm just left with a sour taste in my mouth from B.A. for putting in a frugal 200 claim (minus the 50 payment at the airport) for loss of luggage for 4 days.

If anyone doubts my case, they can contact Mrs. C. Da Cunha who is head of B.A. legal services (Board Member). De facto.

Bond'll Do is offline   Reply
Old 28th Dec 2012, 21:42   #25 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 399
Since staff travel is discretionary, I see no possibility for any legal challenge. BASSA discovered that they could not deliver on their promise to members to have such privileges returned!

Seems to me your only chance is to lick arse and win people over with your charm. I have a sneaking suspicion that could have been your problem in the first place?

As you say, you can afford 'j' tickets on BA's competitors, so no great loss to either side?

Do let us know how you get on.

PS: Very interested to hear how, as a pensioner, you are able to "research into 'loads' etc."? Perhaps that's a factor Mrs C da Cunha may wish to include in her deliberations??

Last edited by 4468; 28th Dec 2012 at 21:47.
4468 is offline   Reply
Old 28th Dec 2012, 22:26   #26 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK/Far East
Posts: 35
Hi 4468...

Hi 4468,

Thank you for your reply.....yes the BA retirement concessions website gives load information and even who and what priority they have. Very interesting, legally. FACT.

Yes, as I reiterate....not crying here...just upset that a frugal claim ended up causing such disturbance and sour taste in my mouth.

Yes, I also have various current long-term friends in B.A. who could, if I asked provide any information I like. However, I have never done that and do not intend to. I am very grateful for the personal replies to my original post, as this shows me just what I was suspicious of....a very chaotic type of management whereby the hand doesn't know what the elbow is doing...sorta thing. I trust you get me on that. That was why I posed the original question, Sir.

These kind of 'weird' current management calls right up to the top brass just reinforce what I've been hearing from my current seniour colleagues still there. I just wanted to know some facts in reply...and I am very grateful to those that have taken time to provide me with that information.
Bond'll Do is offline   Reply
Old 28th Dec 2012, 22:51   #27 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK/Far East
Posts: 35
oops 4468...one codicil I forgot to mention....

Again 4468, one legal codicil that I forgot to mention relating to your kind reply was that current contracts do, unproven legally, clearly state a 'discretionary' aspect to long-service 'award' benefits. Contracts such as mine do not.

I have no intention of taking up a legal battle with B.A., as I have better uses of my money/savings/time. I would probably 'win' my case legally and get a small payout after legal fees....however....I have no time for that.

I just wanted to know what was going on and I have found out sufficient information for my 'issue' as stated.

Yep, in fact I just got a Finnair deal for 2 to the Far East for 1,500 a head in 'J' and can not 'worry' about supposed 'firm' B.A. Retirement Annual Award issues of onload, get to use the lounges et al., sure you know where I'm coming from, especially as the 'taxes/surcharges' on the B.A. 'award' currently amount to over 1,000 on that route on the pretense of 'F', more likely 'J' and I'm not exactly over the moon on the current B.A. offerings/product in either classes....heheh.

Go well!
Bond'll Do is offline   Reply
Old 29th Dec 2012, 07:11   #28 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: In front of a computer
Posts: 1,288
As an aside - I remember how the OP got his "name" on the 757 fleet some years ago. Very pretty French girl............
ETOPS is offline   Reply
Old 29th Dec 2012, 07:22   #29 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,018
No serving staff below the board/CEO level has 'firm' F class tickets in BA. Why should you be any different. My 'firm' F tickets are downgraded if my family travels with me operating the flight. The become 'waitlisted'. Often commercial ops will temporary embargo the F cabin to allow for commercial upgrades leading to the F priority staff travel ticket holders being waitlisted until <24 hrs prior to departure.

ST is not a 'right' it is a concession as such it is BA's concession to play with, as stated above BASSA found this out the hard way.

In my experience the Gate Crew, Cabin Crew and Flight Crew will ALL do their very best to get ST passengers to most comfy seat they can when the opportunity arises. In all honesty the 'booked seat' element is primarily for catering and I will try and get ST travellers as far up the front as I possibly can. But then you don't like the product so no loss there then.

As to the baggage issues, BA doesn't differentiate between ST passengers and commercial passengers when it comes to processing baggage claims. They can't, the claim process is a legal process. In my experience again, and obviously the experience of posters above, on the very few occasions my bag has been delayed a poilitely worded letter with receipts for obvious essentials has had my claim settled promptly. Perhaps a 'bull in a china shop' approach doesn't garner the same results? I don't know but I'm just guessing.

As far as 'checking' loads on both the ST and the Retired Travel sections of the intranet goes they never, ever, reflect the actual commercial load of the aircraft. They do show an estimated commercial overbook position. Hence it may show free seats and onload priorities for staff but those seats might not actually be there in the event of an industry standard overbook policy. The only way to get an accurate figure, as 4468 was alluding to, is through FICO.

But as you seem to be an upstanding, high level member with all of the alliances around the world then all of this is irrelevant isn't it.

Enjoy Finnair.
Wirbelsturm is online now   Reply
Old 29th Dec 2012, 08:40   #30 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 734
Staff Travel changed significantly in 2009. If you have used it since - which given the reason for this post we can clearly take it that you have - you will have acknowledged and accepted the changed T&Cs that go with the 2009 changes. Those T&Cs clearly state that ST is discretionary and not contractual, so I suspect that despite the bandying around of such words as 'codicil' you are really blustering.

So much about this thread and the complaint that started it sound ill informed or just plain wrong.

I have just had the pleasure of a seven year old niece for Christmas and this all reminds me of one of her tantrums.

Last edited by Juan Tugoh; 29th Dec 2012 at 08:54.
Juan Tugoh is offline   Reply
Old 29th Dec 2012, 11:10   #31 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London
Posts: 1,271
Juan
spot on.
Ancient Observer is offline   Reply
Old 29th Dec 2012, 12:25   #32 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: "Big silver bird in sky"
Posts: 44
It's such a shame this "dirty washing" is being rinsed on a public forum and in an inappropriate section such as this.....!!!

I am a long haul commuter and in First class 3-4 times a month where the crew have been generally awesome, nothing too much bother..... Or sat suffering on a jump seat when the a/c is full

If I am correct the author of this missive was an amazingly great Captain and person when in BA, are you sure about the "whole" story as I have had bag claims on staff travel without the slightest trouble...???

Please tell me you haven't turned into the grumpy old man we all fear turning into.
toro is offline   Reply
Old 29th Dec 2012, 14:15   #33 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK
Age: 66
Posts: 427
Excellent post toro. As you say, Bond'll Do was a popular and loyal captain and therefore I cannot believe that BA would remove staff travel purely on the basis of a baggage claim. There has to be more to this story, but as you also say, this probably isn't the place to discuss it.

I believe that the incident to which ETOPS refers was on a VC10, not a 757.
Airclues is offline   Reply
Old 29th Dec 2012, 16:26   #34 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Location Location
Posts: 382
4468, serving and retired airline employees can research into loads on any airline, including those based near Hounslow, here.
Hobo is offline   Reply
Old 29th Dec 2012, 23:45   #35 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: uk
Posts: 64
TBH staff travel concessions, like the company car, are relics from a bygone age and I suspect will be gradually eroded to nothing as they are almost all non-contractual. Ours have recently been slashed to the bone, which for some could be a loss of around 7000 per year in entitlement. Its a shame, but brave new world and all that....
bacp is offline   Reply
Old 30th Dec 2012, 00:37   #36 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 399
"relics" indeed!

Mmmmm....

Edited to add: As a retiree Bond's 'contract' has clearly expired?!

I have no desire to know who he was in the 'real' world, I can only judge from his contributions here. No doubt I am not alone. I'm sure many will have missed his plea to contributors to protect their anonymity?

I can't help wondering why anyone would be so determined to be anonymous????

Or maybe he was scared off???

Last edited by 4468; 30th Dec 2012 at 01:06.
4468 is offline   Reply
Old 30th Dec 2012, 09:07   #37 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: uk
Posts: 64
Well, it is pretty much that simple, if you have a contract of employment that said that you would get discounted air travel until death, then sue them! They will soon back down as the legal costs will outweigh the financial gain. If you don't have that, then you have a concession, which is granted by the goodwill of the airline. As such, like my own airline, the management can judge that to remove it saves enough money to outweigh the loss of morale felt by the workforce.
It isn't right or fair, but with food banks springing up all over the country, I am afraid there won't be a lot of public sympathy around for the loss of a non contractual travel perk. (which by the way, is why in my airline the new travel concession has been accepted with barely a whimper of protest)
bacp is offline   Reply
Old 30th Dec 2012, 09:33   #38 (permalink)

Uncle Pete
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: The rich pastures of the Trent basin
Posts: 823
Well, that's one thing the ex bmi folk don't have to worry about.
MaximumPete is offline   Reply
Old 2nd Jan 2013, 21:02   #39 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK/Far East
Posts: 35
Various rather strange replies here.....

Various rather strange replies here......

Perhaps with the usual chat network sites some have failed to read from the beginning?

I thank those with similar experiences for their confidential sharing back by e-mail.

As I re-iterate, yet again, any 'staff travel' for long-service was both a verbal contract and a written one in my early days of joining 'X' airline.

What seems to be happening now is that 'X' airline on whatever whim it is/convenience is deciding to renege based on, as far as I can say, some silly issue over lost baggage for 4 days. (amounting to approx. 200).

After 30 years of dedicated Professional service to 'X' company, I had only decided to use what was called an 'annual award' ticket once. (I had the ability to use Staff travel at the usual standby unlimited rates, including new premium options etc.,). On this occasion, after I duly submitted my genuine and frugal clothes purchases receipts, I was e-mailed by the legal department of 'X' airline and informed quite simply that as these 'benefits' were seen as available to be revoked at any time...they were choosing to do that in my case.

I sought clarification into this matter as this e-mail 'missive' was sent by an employee of a 'long-winded' Departmental name that I had never heard of in 'X' airline. I actually thought it was a kinda 'spoof'/joke e-mail as I still have several senior ex-colleagues in various departments with that airline.

To my surprise, this turned out to be a genuine e-mail and I took this matter up to current C.E.O. level in my incredulity...and in fact asking if there had been anything incorrect in my behaviour whilst using this ticket. e.g. I've heard of people having Staff Travel removed for being drunk, complaining to staff etc., I have never had any report during my tenure at 'X' airline over decades or since.

So, to close this case, it appears currently that this has happened to a few other people with no reason given from the airline involved. I am grateful for those responses as they help me try to 'figure out' where I may have transgressed. I have not. I have a bitter-taste left in my mouth as to why this has happened.

As I re-iterate, I feel very lucky to have a sufficient-enough retirement income to be able to afford to travel frequently both short-haul and long-haul.

I genuinely do not care which airline I fly on, as long as I deem them to be 'safe'. I've done the basic economy seating over my long career and with myself and older family I wish to travel in a larger seat than basic offerings.

For example, when I used my 'annual reward ticket' with my family member, if circumstances (airline OPS on the day) had meant that I was only offered an economy seat or jumpseat, I would have gladly declined and returned to my hotel either to take a 'firm' flight the next day or, if there was an ongoing problem....just pay for a 'premium economy' or business-class seat. End of story. I do NOT expect nor ever have that any form of travel benefit is guaranteed premium seat available either to current staff or to long-service retirees, like myself.

I trust that this matter is now closed unless someone who has read the full original post has some other 'gem' to offer. That's all.

I've made this matter as clear as I can.

Happy New Year to all readers.
Bond'll Do is offline   Reply
Old 3rd Jan 2013, 10:27   #40 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: House
Posts: 280
Quote:
BASSA discovered that they could not deliver on their promise to members to have such privileges returned!
So please do enlighten us 4468, what did eventually happen?
Watersidewonker is offline   Reply
Reply
 
 
 


Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 07:46.


vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network