Terms and EndearmentThe forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.
Just got a message from my local ALPA that IALPA will be making visits to many Ryanair bases over the coming weeks. This will be a joint effort by IALPA and the local ALPA for the country affected. Purpose of the visit will be to meet the Ryanair pilots and discuss their particular issues.
Last edited by seat 0A; 11th Jan 2012 at 13:14.
Reason: secrecy......
You probably should not be posting this here. Anyone from Dublin can see this and show up at the meeting. That is the whole point of sending people emails
well said Johnnytightlips. Pilots need to show up to these meetings if you want your contracts to change for the better otherwise they never will and you can look forward to a nomadic lifestyle on decreased conditions throughout the Ryanair network. Night flights anyone?
No meetings are going to be held on 'Ryanair' property. The chances of any management being let in is minimal. It would however be very good for the likes of 'Eddie' and co to sit outside and see 'all' the pilots troop in. The more go in the more they will realise that the are about to have a fight on there hands. We should be actively talking about these base meetings and be talking of possible future industrial action. It's not a secret FFS , the whole point that there are over 2100 pilots in REPA is because they all realise something has to give. There is no law against talking ...even the thought police in Ryanair have not gone that far yet. So say it loud and proud guys " Yes I'm in the Union , Yes I will go to a meeting and yes I'm willing to do what is necessary to prevent my T and C's from becoming any worse ...." . Ryanair are going to make 550 million profit this year and like it or not the only idiots I see are the pilots for letting MOL and Co emasculate our T & c's.
I am hearing rumours that Ryanair are planning already through the grapevine. Their plan is to hold ERC meetings in certain bases and say that said ERC has miracolously negotiated a payrise.
Management WANT you to feel fear. Is the fear valid? Hands up anyone who has had anything happen to them over attending a union meeting? How the hell in an airline of 2000+ pilots are they going to know you on sight? How many of you know what these people look like anyway? Like B4S says, go up to them and ask them to come in to give the company's position on it, rather than stay outside in the cold. There might even be tea inside provided at the cost of the union!
Christ. This is why RYR management wins. Because pilots are too f'ing scared to even attend a meeting! A long time ago I explained my pro-union slant to DOB and how it differed from what he was offering. After he thanked me for taking the time and that was that. No animosity, no moving base to the arse-end of nowhere, just two people having different views expressing them.
Management create the opportunity, but it is the pilots themselves who create - and perpetuate - the fear.
If a payrise happens then it'll be delivered in the usual "take it or leave it" approach. Also there will be a clause that if union recognition happens then it will be immediately revoked. Same old bull. trust me, it'll be revoked anyway, just long enough after the threat of union recognition has gone away again!
There are more issues in RYR today than will be fixed by a simple payrise - and I seriously doubt they will raise it to the industry standards, which means it is no way near enough anyway.
The ONLY way to go is union recognition. I would rather put my trust in my fellow pilots than in my management. Only unionised pilots have the strength to take on these downward spirals management try to force on us.
They play divide and conquer. We play strength in numbers. It's as simple as that.
Sorry guys but I have to give my 2 cents here now. I really get shocked when I read all this stuff about RYR and the union. I am in my late 20ies and fly a 70+ turboprop for a small german regional airline. 17 aircrafts, that's 7 jets and 10 turboprops. Lets say about 150 pilots. Of course it's not the Lufthansa pay but we have a good life here (FO bout 50000€, CPT 75000+€). Good contracts regarding duty time, off time, roster etc. Long term contract, annual payrise and you get your typerating payed. And we have a strong union here. Of course the management is not pleased with that, but who cares? No one will fight for our conditions. WE have to fight. I seriously can't believe that a huge company like RYR is not able to unify. What is your size? Almost 300 aircraft I guess. What is wrong there? You fly thousands of thousands people round europe and don't have the balls to rebel against some office sitters?! Getting organised doesn't hurt. Trust me. The airline industry gets sicker and sicker each and every day! And no manager will stop it for us. WE have to stop it!!!
It would take more than all the tea in China to keep me satisfied living in the backwater arse ends of Europe on a 7/2 uncommutable contract away from friends and family, one eye over my shoulder looking out for the taxman.
Vexed, I am with you on this one, never had any backlash in my time there resulting from pro-union views, in fact I think they actually admire a bit of back-bone & secretly despise the @rse licking ERC "Representatives" I remember EW once coming out with the classic line during discussions about T's&C's , "you guys are eejits, what you need is a union" & No , he wasn't joking. I believe they are truly amazed, & cannot quite believe their luck ,that you have constantly seized defeat from the jaws of victory in your failure to unify.
"Negotiating" for them is like taking candy from a baby, and whose fault is that ?
Was not aware that a 7/2 roster was available . you whinging **** think of the money you are earning 7 days on. and only 2 days to spend it. got the girls must think you have a big ***** or something
Pilot999 Do you usually take comfort in other peoples misfortune? You sound like a nasty person. If you can't construct a meaningful sentence for or against don't bother. I know like the rest of us here we are waiting to hear an articulate argument against a union in Ryanair. So far nothing.
I don't understand this comment: "one eye over my shoulder looking out for the taxman."
Do you mean:
1) You are concerned that your "employer" is not paying your taxes/social security correctly? Or;
2) Are you for some reason concerned that you, yourself, may wittingly be involved in tax evasion in order to raise your poor salary package to a liveable wage?
If you're involved in tax evasion, I'd be more worried about judgment day if the authorities catch up with you rather than being concerned about Ryanair's ability to crew its aircraft.
As for an argument against a union in FR? There is no cogent argument against. MOL and his cronies are a bunch of crooks. You should stick it to them. 2 days before the Olympics begin.....
I am probaly one of the least whinging ,polite peeson you will ever meet . However I cannot stand constant moaning, complaining etc. If a guy takes a base on 5/4 and commutes than that is their problem. years ago When I was offered an upgrade I moved with my wife to our new home. We left behind parents etc. Did we moan .No!!!!!!! we got on with building our new home and making it home. Or I could have commuted and saved a lot of money in tax.
Pilot999, .....PLEASE go away, ......I understand you are bored, and lack a life filled with most of the normal things that occupy the rest of us,but you are like an annoying fly in the room, albeit as stated in the above post...one with a nasty streak.
Pilot999 I don't think you are alone in being a pilot and not liking unions. Its a strange fact that some of the people most in need of a union are pilots due to excessive contracter and constant spiralling in terms of conditions. Your dislike of unions is really totally irrational. A union is a collective voice for workers given the nature of our employeer we are in need of a collective voice. Maybe you can explain your reason for disliking unions? A nice articule well formatted argument would be more than welcome.
you are not as polite as you like to think of yourself as your comment can be found quite arrogant and offensive.
Your statement is not only arrogant, it also lacks intelligence! And why? Because the thing is that in RYR you CANT choose. It is presented as if you can, but in reality you cant. A person might take and accept a 5/4 base, but doesnt want to be there. Their choice might be the best of the worst options presented and therefore they will have to make it work for themselves and their family. But some people might not move as simple as you did. So please spare us your shortsighted comments.
If not mistaken you are 66 years of age and you say they moved you a few years ago? Are you still actually flying for RYR? And dont forget T&C's have gone down fast since you got your base transfer and are still going down. You possibly still got the 'good' deal. Now it is all a lot less! Yes that is possible and keeps going down!
That you appear to be willing to collaborate with a management that you might think gives you a reasonable deal now, but forget to see that this might be gone tomorrow because the management feel like it makes you a fool. And you wont be able to stop them and you might just find yourself in a base where you wont be happy and cant make it work as you do now and make less money than you wanted. How stupid and kidding yourself is that really?
Well done that you made it work wherever it is they did send you, but you clearly dont want the best for yourself and your family and are therefore denying yourself and family a better life. What idiot does that? Or you just want a quiet life and sit and think it will last your time. Because then you are probably right, but you should think of the future of others and the industry as well if you like aviation. Or you are more selfish than I even thought.
So please spare us your foolish comments, although they are slightly amusing
Personally I am not a big fan of unions as well, but pilots in RYR need the union!!
pilot999, It is exactly why we need union representation. To keep or make it possible to built a home and making it a home. I would like to see the smile on your face when they close your base or make you change base or you have to move when after next pay cuts you are no longer able to afford your 'new home' or they sack you because you just misread your roster or your were really ill for too long... Your plea is exactly why we want a union. To keep you and all of us happy. Thanks for that!
I was starting to write an in depth reply saying something along the lines of; "Yes, I imagine everyone is paying tax, maybe not the full amount due to expenses etc but the are paying" But I really couldn't be bothered to explain it, as it has already been done to death on these forums!
eejits, what you need is a union" & No , he wasn't joking. I believe they are truly amazed, & cannot quite believe their luck ,that you have constantly seized defeat from the jaws of victory in your failure to unify.
