3 Engine ferry flights with piston/ turboprop aircraft ?
Thinking more on three engine ferries, we had a DC-51 (ex-Trans Carribean) that made, some years apart, three engined ferries JFK to MIA. Literally 3 engines. The first was a crosswind landing resulting in dragging the nbr. 4 which came off. and was left behind. Pylon stayed on but was deformed. The pylon was removed before the ferry.
Some years later I was called to take the binoculars and go with the airport fire chief to a runway and observe a low fly-past of the sane aircraft. The right main landing gear was not locking down. Sure enough, I could see the RMLG was swaying inboard as he gave a little bank.
They set up for an emergency landing and called in the NY City Fire Department to back up the JFK crash trucks. I stayed with the Port Authority fire chief in his car. Crash truck at every taxiway down the runway, city providing backup. The chief and I were at the approach end and as the DC-8 flew over raced down the runway after t. Smooth landing in a stiff crosswind and the DC-8 rolled for a distance and then the RMG walked in and nbr. 4 engine started dragging, sparking, flames. A/C came to a stop and nbr. 4 engine disappeared under a mountain of foam.
Long story about the emergency chutes on port side all blowing under the fuselage.
After we offloaded the pax via mobile steps we jacked the aircraft up. The pinion in the RMLG that the actuator attached to had come out. The big actuator with no load had sent a shock wave thru the gear hydraulics and the little downlock cylinder had inflated into a perfectly round bal. This shortened the stroke so gear wouldn't lock down.
After a gear change and removal of nbr. 4 and its pylon she ferried on 3 engines to MIA. How many aircraft can boast of that?
Some years later I was called to take the binoculars and go with the airport fire chief to a runway and observe a low fly-past of the sane aircraft. The right main landing gear was not locking down. Sure enough, I could see the RMLG was swaying inboard as he gave a little bank.
They set up for an emergency landing and called in the NY City Fire Department to back up the JFK crash trucks. I stayed with the Port Authority fire chief in his car. Crash truck at every taxiway down the runway, city providing backup. The chief and I were at the approach end and as the DC-8 flew over raced down the runway after t. Smooth landing in a stiff crosswind and the DC-8 rolled for a distance and then the RMG walked in and nbr. 4 engine started dragging, sparking, flames. A/C came to a stop and nbr. 4 engine disappeared under a mountain of foam.
Long story about the emergency chutes on port side all blowing under the fuselage.
After we offloaded the pax via mobile steps we jacked the aircraft up. The pinion in the RMLG that the actuator attached to had come out. The big actuator with no load had sent a shock wave thru the gear hydraulics and the little downlock cylinder had inflated into a perfectly round bal. This shortened the stroke so gear wouldn't lock down.
After a gear change and removal of nbr. 4 and its pylon she ferried on 3 engines to MIA. How many aircraft can boast of that?
Nairobi to Mombasa
C 130 Heavy oil leak No 3 at Nairobi requiring ECU change. Told no room at Nairobi to do it OAU meeting of P.Ms get off our airport.3 engine ferry orgsnised to Mombasa with 4 engine take off for WAT limits, shut down no 3 after takeoff and proceed to Mombasa.
Aircraft was a trainer so apart from basic crew plus G.E
( me ), all others travelled to Mombasa by train, quite an experience I was told. ECU changed and route resumed.
Aircraft was a trainer so apart from basic crew plus G.E
( me ), all others travelled to Mombasa by train, quite an experience I was told. ECU changed and route resumed.
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DH7 done many times in my company, also from 800m rwys. I never did it, but remember that there was a lot of preperation for a 3eng ferry. The DH7 didnt perform well at altitude, even with all four engines running, so during a 3eng ferry, we would be more challenged with icing conditions than loosing a second engine...
Avoid imitations
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I once had to fly a Puma helicopter on one engine from an offshore island (Caye Capel, Belize) after the other one refused to start. We needed the permission of the Air Officer Commanding to do it. Bearing in mind that he was supposed to have been the senior passenger and would otherwise have been stranded, that was immediately forthcoming. We flew back, changed aircraft, returned to fetch him and his entourage.
Cubana Bristol Britannia occasionally ferried into Luton for attention by Monarch (AEL). There was at least one flight direct from Havana on 3 engines! The U/s Proteus had the prop removed and a natty temporary fairing placed over the front of the cowling. I’m afraid I don’t have any photos but those of us in ATC were most surprised when it materialised out of the murk in that condition!
According to my log book we did a three engine ferry on the C130K from Seeb to Akrotiri (8.35) . The us engine was changed at Akrotiri and during the climb out started leaking oil ! Back to Akrotiri to await a new engine from UK. I once authorised a three engine ferry from Mogadishu to Mombasa but that's another story !
No idea what the cargo aircraft in question was, but during the US involvement in Viet Nam, I remember hearing stories of a particular USAF cargo aircraft - piston engine powered - that had such a horrid engine MTBF that losing an engine somewhere on the trip from Hawaii to Vietnam was not uncommon. Since the US airbases were a regular target of rocket and mortar attacks, the crews would rather risk a 3-engine departure from South Viet Nam rather than having to stay there long enough to perform and engine change...
No idea what the cargo aircraft in question was, but during the US involvement in Viet Nam, I remember hearing stories of a particular USAF cargo aircraft - piston engine powered - that had such a horrid engine MTBF that losing an engine somewhere on the trip from Hawaii to Vietnam was not uncommon. Since the US airbases were a regular target of rocket and mortar attacks, the crews would rather risk a 3-engine departure from South Viet Nam rather than having to stay there long enough to perform and engine change...
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#21. Perhaps the inspiration for Ken Maynard's old Ettamogah Pub cartoon with the punchline "yer right, Taffy, that engine IS missing". If I can find it, I'll post it.
I flew the CL44 with Transmeridian. In the 1000 or so hours I flew it, t flew 4 engine out ferries. Kano to Stansted, Taif to Stansted, Mineralnye Vody to Karachi and Lubumbashi to Kinshasa.
On our six monthly checks (always on the aeroplane, no simulator) the Captain’s check always involved a 3 engine take-off.
I seem to recall it went like this: the rudder trim was pre-set 2/3rds towards the “good” side, the aileron trim 1/3rd. To start the task-off, the F/E would wind up the “matched pair” to full power, then when he was satisfied, the Captain (always a Captain’s take-off) released the parking brake and opened up the 3rd throttle, increasing power carefully so as not to lose directional control.
I can’t remember what we did for V speeds or how we thought about the further loss of an engine, en-route terrain clearance etc, but I do recall the max take-off weight was 165000 lbs - coincidentally the max landing weight. The crosswind limit was also reduced. Other stuff: operating crew only, no revenue freight etc.
At that weight, some 50,000 lbs below max all up weight, the old thing flew pretty well. In fact, as you were down around 20% on fuel flow and only 10% down on true airspeed, the “air nautical miles per gallon” increased. It could go a blooming long way on 3!
It was also not uncommon on some range limited flights to get airborne on 4 engines, climb to the 3 engine cruise altitude and shut one down. Our CAA flight ops inspector had a pink fit when he found out as he was concerned if the engine needed to be relit there was a chance the prop might overspeed. The company chief F/E reckoned that was rubbish, as the 44’s Tyne had so many protection devices on the prop. Result: CAA 1, TMAC O. The process was discontinued.
I do recall though, being in Cairo, sometime around 1976/7, when a 747 (Can’t remember if it was TWA or Pan Am) was flown out on 3 engines. I’m pretty sure it was flown out by a Boeing crew.
Also, a tragic event in Jeddah one night when a Lear jet (35?) attempted a single engine take-off as one starter mother was U/S. The pilot’s intention to windmill start the other engine when airborne. He was also attempting it single pilot, which at least spared the co-pilot and or passengers when it all went wrong.
All a very long time ago and thankfully, I suspect, engine out ferries are a thing of the past!
Cheers,
On our six monthly checks (always on the aeroplane, no simulator) the Captain’s check always involved a 3 engine take-off.
I seem to recall it went like this: the rudder trim was pre-set 2/3rds towards the “good” side, the aileron trim 1/3rd. To start the task-off, the F/E would wind up the “matched pair” to full power, then when he was satisfied, the Captain (always a Captain’s take-off) released the parking brake and opened up the 3rd throttle, increasing power carefully so as not to lose directional control.
I can’t remember what we did for V speeds or how we thought about the further loss of an engine, en-route terrain clearance etc, but I do recall the max take-off weight was 165000 lbs - coincidentally the max landing weight. The crosswind limit was also reduced. Other stuff: operating crew only, no revenue freight etc.
At that weight, some 50,000 lbs below max all up weight, the old thing flew pretty well. In fact, as you were down around 20% on fuel flow and only 10% down on true airspeed, the “air nautical miles per gallon” increased. It could go a blooming long way on 3!
It was also not uncommon on some range limited flights to get airborne on 4 engines, climb to the 3 engine cruise altitude and shut one down. Our CAA flight ops inspector had a pink fit when he found out as he was concerned if the engine needed to be relit there was a chance the prop might overspeed. The company chief F/E reckoned that was rubbish, as the 44’s Tyne had so many protection devices on the prop. Result: CAA 1, TMAC O. The process was discontinued.
I do recall though, being in Cairo, sometime around 1976/7, when a 747 (Can’t remember if it was TWA or Pan Am) was flown out on 3 engines. I’m pretty sure it was flown out by a Boeing crew.
Also, a tragic event in Jeddah one night when a Lear jet (35?) attempted a single engine take-off as one starter mother was U/S. The pilot’s intention to windmill start the other engine when airborne. He was also attempting it single pilot, which at least spared the co-pilot and or passengers when it all went wrong.
All a very long time ago and thankfully, I suspect, engine out ferries are a thing of the past!
Cheers,
Also, a tragic event in Jeddah one night when a Lear jet (35?) attempted a single engine take-off as one starter mother was U/S. The pilot’s intention to windmill start the other engine when airborne. He was also attempting it single pilot, which at least spared the co-pilot and or passengers when it all went wrong.
Cheers,
Cheers,
That didn't end well either, although I think the pilots survived (but not the aircraft).
There was an invent in Portland, Oregon perhaps 25 years ago - twin engine biz jet (don't recall type) that couldn't get an engine started, so they tried to do a windmill light on the ground during a takeoff roll.
That didn't end well either, although I think the pilots survived (but not the aircraft).
That didn't end well either, although I think the pilots survived (but not the aircraft).
Also an Eastern L1011 had an engine go u/s at Mexico City, so they prepared for a 2-engine ferry back to Miami base. Mexico City of course at 6,000ft altitude. On liftoff a second engine failed, crew just managed to get it back. TWO replacement engines then shipped down to Mexico on a Hercules !
During my time at EAL, I hear that story a couple of times.
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Small world-I used to fly CL 44s for Wrangler Aviation (one of them was an ex TM bird). In my 7 years there I did about 4 three engine takeoffs and ferry flights. On three it would fly about 2000 feet lower and about 10-15 knots slower. On a US certificate were were limited to no freight and no passengers. FWIW-it flew a lot better with about 10,000 pounds of "ballast" on the airplane.
As BSD stated all training was done in the aircraft-three engine stall does at night will get your attention, but again with no cargo on board the airplane was almost overpowered.
As BSD stated all training was done in the aircraft-three engine stall does at night will get your attention, but again with no cargo on board the airplane was almost overpowered.
I did a 3 engine ferry on a DC 6 firebomber once after an inflight shut down due to a spun blower seal. The seal failed right at lift off from a shortish dirt strip of course. 
.
The engineer had a 3 engine prep checklist and the company applied for a ferry permit. Takeoff procedure was full wet power on the 2 symmetrical engines holding the brakes and them feed in the remaining engine as the airplane accelerated and the rudder became effective. In practice not a big deal and we had the benefit of a cross wind from the "right" direction.
Company had a fully built up QEC with prop and tin on always ready to go . We rolled up to the company hangar at 0800 and they had the new engine hung by 11:00 It took longer to do the paper work and runup checks than it did to re and re the engine. We took off for our base fully serviceable at 16:00. It was fun to watch the guys at work.
.The engineer had a 3 engine prep checklist and the company applied for a ferry permit. Takeoff procedure was full wet power on the 2 symmetrical engines holding the brakes and them feed in the remaining engine as the airplane accelerated and the rudder became effective. In practice not a big deal and we had the benefit of a cross wind from the "right" direction.
Company had a fully built up QEC with prop and tin on always ready to go . We rolled up to the company hangar at 0800 and they had the new engine hung by 11:00 It took longer to do the paper work and runup checks than it did to re and re the engine. We took off for our base fully serviceable at 16:00. It was fun to watch the guys at work.
I remember hearing stories of a particular USAF cargo aircraft - piston engine powered - that had such a horrid engine MTBF that losing an engine somewhere on the trip from Hawaii to Vietnam was not uncommon. Since the US airbases were a regular target of rocket and mortar attacks, the crews would rather risk a 3-engine departure from South Viet Nam rather than having to stay there long enough to perform and engine change...
Jimxty - blooming ‘eck! It might be more difficult to find 44 pilot who hasn’t logged a 3-engined ferry!
So, if Transmeridian had 7 (I think it was 7, plus the Guppy) and one of them went to Wrangler, there’s a goodly chance we’ve 3-engine ferried the same aeroplane.
Happy new year!
So, if Transmeridian had 7 (I think it was 7, plus the Guppy) and one of them went to Wrangler, there’s a goodly chance we’ve 3-engine ferried the same aeroplane.
Happy new year!