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Old 4th Mar 2011, 07:45   #1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 107
Now Lion Air wants to make money out of jobless pilots from India

Just found this on face..book!

LionAIr Indian pilot programme 2011

What is the required experience to apply to the program?
Valid C.P.L
Multi engine instrument rating
Current Class one medical
Passport with minimum one year validity.
Willing to relocate outside India.

What is the maximum age for applicants?
First Officer 35 years old

After Type Rating which company I would be employed for?
Lion Air. Asia’s fastest growing Airlines. It has highest number of Boeing 737-900ER in world.

Will Lion Air guarantee a job?
Pilot passing the Lion Standard, are assured to be hired.

What are Lion Air standards?
Lion Air Standard mentioned is passing Simulator check and Passing Class 1 medical upon reaching Jakarta, Indonesia.

Once selected from when can I expect salary?
After being evaluated by company check airman on simulator and passing Class 1 Medicals in Indonesia , Crew member would be paid a Monthly Salary.

What salary can I expect after getting successfully evaluated?
After getting evaluated successfully you would be entitled with a monthly salary of 2000; Two Thousand U.S Dollars

What kind of contract do I get (permanent/temporary)?
First employment contract for 36 months. Thereafter, the contract will be renewed on mutual agreement.

How can I obtain an Indonesian work permit? How long it takes?
The Company, Lion Air will act as sponsor for your employment and residence in Indonesia including spouse and children. Usually it takes 2-3 weeks during which you would be completing your necessary ground training

Company will provide accommodation, either at base Jakarta or at outstation

Company will provide transportation for Flight Duties; Simulator and all other ground training.

Company will provide crew uniform

Air transportation on Lion Air network at the beginning and end of contract. Closest to India would be Singapore to Jakarta. In this case crew member is responsible of arranging Visa to Singapore.

Will I get a chance to upgrade as captain?
Opportunity to upgrade as a captain would be given upon meeting company requirements and standards.

What all routes will I be flying as pilot in Lion Air?
You would get a chance to fly all over Indonesia. Also international flights into some of the world’s busiest airports like Singapore and Vietnam giving lifetime exposure

Personal travel
Company will provide 2 (Two) FOC ticket per year to each crew member valid for Lion flights

What is notice period for Resignation?
Resignation on 180 days notice

What bases are available? Will I get my preferred base?
Currently in Jakarta; Indonesia only.

How does the roster look like?
Bi-weekly basis, follow CASR (Civil Aviation Safety Regulation)

Number of flying hours per month/year?
Average 100 hrs per month, max 1050 hrs/year

How many annual leaves will I get?
28 Annual leaves. You will be entitled for 14 days after 180 days of completion of service.

How many paid sick leaves I would get?
5 sick leaves per year.

What is the course price and duration?

The B737NG type rating course is mainly delivered at TRTO designated by Lion Air. It will be 4 weeks course. Cost of the program is INR 25, 00,000 (TWENTY FIVE LACS).Training price includes accommodation and return tickets for type rating and simulator assessment with Airline.

What is the penalty of early termination of contract?
Any termination at the initiative or caused by the behavior of the pilot will lead to a penalty of 100,000 USD.

To whom I would be giving my course fees? Who will take care of all documentation?
Interested pilot would have to deposit course fee to MSD Aviation in the following phases :-
1. 5 Lacs on being selected for the course in order to sign the contract
2. 10 Lacs before going for type rating course
3. 10 lacs after getting endorsement on License.

We pay 30 lacs for our pilot training then 25 lacs more for this Lion air type rating just to earn 80k per month. The lucky ones in India are earning over 2 lacs for the same airplane and got the job with only a CPL.....
vdaff is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2011, 08:03   #2 (permalink)
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Is it a rumour?

Not sure if this is authentic information or not. Couldn't find any information on the internet about it. Seems quite a fishy contract if it is the case. But still a lotta people would go for it i guess.

Mathematically, money wise it is worthless.
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Old 4th Mar 2011, 09:06   #3 (permalink)
Dep Chief PPRuNe Pilot
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A sleazeball has already had two attempts at placing this ad booted off the site for slavery reasons.

6 months notice? $100,000 usd 'fine' for baling out?

The desperate and naive will get exactly what they deserve.

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Old 4th Mar 2011, 09:34   #4 (permalink)
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Thats funny..

Anyone who enrolls ...deserves to go through thru the consequences..
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Old 4th Mar 2011, 10:45   #5 (permalink)
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Lion Air

seems like a big fraud is going to happen , no info on internet or Lion Air website , also Lion air was inducting earlier with CAE or Eaglejet and now this crap...looks like they need despo pilots who wanna spend anything to buy a job!!!
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Old 4th Mar 2011, 10:47   #6 (permalink)
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I saw this from a face..book fan page of msd aviation
here is their website MSD Aviation is India’s first organization in leasing flight crew internationally.

For your information there are few guys who are currently in lionair through this programme. Really feel sorry for them
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Old 4th Mar 2011, 11:38   #7 (permalink)
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ah,the good old MSD Aviation... that's a no no i think.
Certainly when i heared that this Kush Bhasin who workes as F.O. in Lion is a contact person in all this for Lion/MSD... I bet he is getting some Lacs from all this. how disgusting... his own colleagues are disgusted of him being affiliated with this. But that's how the cooky crumbles. He is even putting promotion for it on his own Face...book page. . Ah well. if you are stupid to fall for this, then indeed it's what they deserve.....
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Old 4th Mar 2011, 12:12   #8 (permalink)
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This sounds very fishy.... be careful guys. I know Lionair is hiring from CAE and Eaglejet only.. NO ONE else.

I think this facebook advertisement is false. I think someone is taking advantage of pilots who are desperate for jobs. Desperate people are prime targets for conmen.

I expect the mention PERSON (KB) is trying to get some money out of this. I expect he friendly with management and trying his charms to bring in pilots to earn some cash..too much cocky is not good in aviation.. i like to know what he has done to be hated so much by his friends....

Guys Pls.. dont be used by cra*(y agencies. I have been a desperate pilot too.. for many years..I learnt there are many cra*&y agencies, all looking to line there pockets with your money.... try Eaglejet or CAE aleast.. they have a proven contract with lionair. But at the end of the day, all agencies are there to make a profit...it business.

Good hunting...
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Old 4th Mar 2011, 12:15   #9 (permalink)
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Is This Only For Indian Nationals????????????????????
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Old 4th Mar 2011, 12:20   #10 (permalink)
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its only for money holders....try contacting them , i m sure they wont say NO.
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Old 4th Mar 2011, 12:30   #11 (permalink)
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I am afraiid it's quite real....
the website works and has a quoute PDF as mentioned above in the first post.
and his face...book is up and spamming on every Indian newspage as well.
painfull as it is... he put it on the 'jobless indian pilot association'...
Hurts to see this. He will get his duty paid one day i think.

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DragonFly-ing is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2011, 13:05   #12 (permalink)
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I actually took this from the "unemployed Indian pilots" page on face..book. That person who posted this is a FO with LionAir.

pls people dont belive this, if you really want to waste your daddy's money to work for lion air at least go with CAE or eaglejet.
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Old 4th Mar 2011, 17:38   #13 (permalink)
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the title of this thread shouldn't be Lion Air trying to make money..
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Old 4th Mar 2011, 18:04   #14 (permalink)
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I had registered on CAE, but the never seem to reply! the CAE website status just says that you have already applied for this if you no longer want your application to be considered to click here..
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Old 4th Mar 2011, 18:21   #15 (permalink)
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Hey guys,

I gave a call on that number on their website. Its only for Indian nationals and they claim that they're the only one's allowed to do the recruitment for Indians. CAE does it only for EU nationals and not for Indians. The Indian biz is looked after by a pilot from 9W who claims to have lots of hours on the 737. As far as the job guarantee is concerned, there is a job confirmation and you sign the contract with Lion Air for 3 yrs. But the million dollar question is, do you want to prostitute yourself for this? 25L for a mere 2000$/month with an increment of 300$ every year??

Paying for your TR/SSTR is the standard set in the Indian industry now a days. But you must ensure that you get a decent salary with it. If not, please don't degrade the standards for others who are also in this industry and for the many to come.

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Old 5th Mar 2011, 05:40   #16 (permalink)
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Niksmathew24 :
CAE does it only for EU nationals and not for Indians. The Indian biz is looked after by a pilot from 9W who claims to have lots of hours on the 737. As far as the job guarantee is concerned, there is a job confirmation and you sign the contract with Lion Air for 3 yrs.
As I believe, this Kush B (name stated above) did arrive in Lion with a P2F scheme himself. I believe it's CAE since they live in the housing provided for CAE guys. Here in Indonesia there is already some wild stories about this chap. Even in the flag carrier GA there is talk about this guy. I just hope nobody let's himself get ripped off, since rumors are he is the contact person in all this and the company set up in Delhi is actually his old hometown.

I hope he is doing a good deal for himself, as maybe his flying career will end if someone kicks his ass too hard if they find out he is ripping off his fellow Indian friends who seek a job.

disgusting to see the package like this. i mean : '6 months notice for terminating the contract'? Then you can never apply for a job in between, because of you tell the new company 'sorry, i am applying now, but you need to wait 6 months until I come available' ... and that's only after the 3 years you must spend in Lion... who has a pretty disputable management themselfs.

Good luck......
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Old 5th Mar 2011, 17:01   #17 (permalink)
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I called up on the numbers given on website the guy over there is siddharth kasana he is the owner of the company he told me that everything is fair as we are the only agents in india to provide pilots to lion air !! he told me he had posted the link of the contract on the website. and abt kb what i heard is he is abt to join flag carrier GA
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Old 6th Mar 2011, 02:56   #18 (permalink)
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edit/posted 2 times
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Old 6th Mar 2011, 07:38   #19 (permalink)
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It's all up to the Indian CPL holders to decide if they want to sell out there souls to this Kush Bhasin , siddharth kasana and MSD Aviation...

Everybody in Indonesia knows about the lucky 4 that wanted to go from Lion to GA (Garuda) last november 2010.

The chief pilot 739ER (Andi 'the crook' Mufty) was even so sick to stop this exodus from expats that wanted to leave Lion in a new and aggressive way. He found out that the selections/screenings for Garuda were in Singapore, so the Lion chief pilot went to Singapore (of course fully paid by Lion Air) and rented a NG Sim in the oxford aviation building, the same building as where the Garuda screenings that day were held. There he waited and 'caught' some guys from Lion that wanted to do selections. Back in Indonesia they were forced into sky rocketing fines or they got the choice to get fired (lawsuit, fines the whole hoebla was released on those guys if they decided not to cooperate). This was mostly a scare tactic from this 'not so 100% healthy' mind. Before most expat contracts stated a 10.000 USD fine if you left before the contract. Most people that went to garuda happily paid to Lion... because Garuda gives you good hotels and provides double the paycheck on the end of the month (around 6000 USD a month for F.O.) .

Then Lion, short of pilots since everybody that enters the company wants to leave, except for some heads, went back a step and offered some guys to stay in the company with NO fine if they kept it quiet or if they wanted to go they must pay (i heared this from other eagle guys here, so 99% sure) 28.000 USD + 10.000 USD that was stated in the contract. Totalled up to 38.000USD. after some time it went down to, i believe 28.000 USD.... and then some guys decided they dont have that money and stayed in Lion and some guys paid the freaking 28.000USD raised there middle finger (i hope) to Andi Mufty and left to Garuda.
This is how it goes in Indonesia.

So I don't know what kind of deal this Kush Bhasin has with Lion, but if he is leaving to Garuda soon, as you heared from MSD/his colleague siddharth... maybe he made a deal with Ertata (stated in the PDF contract between MSD aviation and Lion as signer from Lion side) and Mufty from Lion that he can leave himself if he tricks at least 3 indian cpl holders in joining Lion for 3 years and with a 100.000 USD bond with 6 month notice.

Furthermore, as PPRuNe towers stated above, slavery in this kind must not happen, but will because of the many rich (parents) Indian cpl holders who are dying to sit and die, oeps i mean fly, in the right seat.

also there is some interesting stories about Lion in :
page 11 and 12 from PKLUCKY888 . this will also give some light shed on the management and things going on in Lion Air.

The last months there has been multiple rwy excursions from lion in Pekanbaru (in february). 2 in a row. And some high speed RTO's and a tailstrike last december. But all these quietly kept out of the news of course. Some L1 and R1 windows on 900ER's have ASH debris on it because lion like to fly through ash clouds and get good money from tickets if other airlines decide to cancel a flight due to ash clouds and volcanoes. I don't know if Boeing or the authorities like this but that's up to them to screen Lion.

To get back to this MSD Aviation... good luck for anyone who wants to sign this deal with their blood.....
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Old 6th Mar 2011, 09:19   #20 (permalink)
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highlys suspicious

Kasana? there was a Siddharth Kasana in Spicejet who recorded Capt. Banerjee smoking in the flight deck and released it to the news channels, he got knocked out of SG & joined IndiGo. If this is the same guy. Stay away. Very far away. He has issues which need medical assistance.
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