Filling indian logbook...
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Ok ... just to clear things up, this is how flight time is logged :
(which is what I meant by saying different countries different interpretations)
In the USA :
After PPL, you log under PIC as well as DUAL.
This DUAL-PIC (After PPL) means the same as P1 UNDER TRAINING in Canada and other JAA/Commonwealth countries.
It is also the same as logging P1 U/T in India.
and is also the same as logging SPIC (Student PIC) in India.
In India :
DUAL is DUAL only.
One can not log flights under PIC and DUAL simultaneously when flying in India.
Hence ... the confusion rises in this case because people think that the DUAL logged in USA after PPL is purely DUAL.
There is no concept of P1 UNDER TRAINING in USA.
P1 U/T in USA = logging under both DUAL and PIC columns.
Hope this clears confusions.
(which is what I meant by saying different countries different interpretations)
In the USA :
After PPL, you log under PIC as well as DUAL.
This DUAL-PIC (After PPL) means the same as P1 UNDER TRAINING in Canada and other JAA/Commonwealth countries.
It is also the same as logging P1 U/T in India.
and is also the same as logging SPIC (Student PIC) in India.
In India :
DUAL is DUAL only.
One can not log flights under PIC and DUAL simultaneously when flying in India.
Hence ... the confusion rises in this case because people think that the DUAL logged in USA after PPL is purely DUAL.
There is no concept of P1 UNDER TRAINING in USA.
P1 U/T in USA = logging under both DUAL and PIC columns.
Hope this clears confusions.
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In India :
DUAL is DUAL only.
One can not log flights under PIC and DUAL simultaneously when flying in India.
Hence ... the confusion rises in this case because people think that the DUAL logged in USA after PPL is purely DUAL.
There is no concept of P1 UNDER TRAINING in USA.
P1 U/T in USA = logging under both DUAL and PIC columns.
DUAL is DUAL only.
One can not log flights under PIC and DUAL simultaneously when flying in India.
Hence ... the confusion rises in this case because people think that the DUAL logged in USA after PPL is purely DUAL.
There is no concept of P1 UNDER TRAINING in USA.
P1 U/T in USA = logging under both DUAL and PIC columns.
In India :
DUAL is DUAL only.
One can not log flights under PIC and DUAL simultaneously when flying in India.
DUAL is DUAL only.
One can not log flights under PIC and DUAL simultaneously when flying in India.
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A person with an FAA logbook, will have logged flight time under DUAL and PIC.
This is not the same as DUAL in India.
This DUAL and PIC logged simultaneously in USA is the same as logging P1 UNDER TRAINING in India or other countries.
Thats it. Simple.
Hence, when someone submits an FAA logbook to DGCA, the DGCA knows that this person has done his/her flying in USA and will hence accept the logbook as it is.
Which is why I again repeat ... There is no problem in submitting your FAA logbook to DGCA.
BUT .. If you still badly want to create another logbook, then buy an Indian logbook and simply log all the DUAL-PIC time in your FAA logbook as P1 UNDER TRAINING or create a column called SPIC. (Student Pilot in Command)
This is not the same as DUAL in India.
This DUAL and PIC logged simultaneously in USA is the same as logging P1 UNDER TRAINING in India or other countries.
Thats it. Simple.
Hence, when someone submits an FAA logbook to DGCA, the DGCA knows that this person has done his/her flying in USA and will hence accept the logbook as it is.
Which is why I again repeat ... There is no problem in submitting your FAA logbook to DGCA.
BUT .. If you still badly want to create another logbook, then buy an Indian logbook and simply log all the DUAL-PIC time in your FAA logbook as P1 UNDER TRAINING or create a column called SPIC. (Student Pilot in Command)
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How to go about Logging time as a Safety Pilot in a way DGCA doesnt raise an eyebrow?
Say if i acted a Safety Pilot for another person in a C - 152 he was under the hood, how would i log that time? PIC? Second in Command (SIC)?
Say if i acted a Safety Pilot for another person in a C - 152 he was under the hood, how would i log that time? PIC? Second in Command (SIC)?
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In your FAA logbook, safety pilot time can be legally logged as PIC.
Anyway, here's one way for you to PACIFY your conscience (if it pricks you
) regarding logging safety pilot hours ...
See this in the Indian CARs : (Aircraft's act 1937) related to logging flight time :
(8) The holder of a Private Pilot’s Licence may log as pilot-in-command only the flight time during which he acts as pilot-in-command.
(9) The holder of a Commercial, Senior Commercial or Airline Transport Pilot’s Licence may log as pilot-in-command the flight time during which he acts as pilot-in-command. He shall log as co-pilot the flight time during which he acts as co-pilot.
Now the question is, IS A SAFETY PILOT ACTING AS THE PILOT IN COMMAND IN THAT FLIGHT ?
If you ask me frankly, I'd say YES.
Here's my justification :
What is the definition of pilot in command ?
Ans : (from the DGCA Aircraft's act 1937 )
IS THE FLIGHT SAFE IF THE PILOT MANIPULATING THE CONTROLS IS UNDER THE HOOD ?
NO !
Collision avoidance and looking out for potential danger in terms of traffic and terrain, and avoiding the clouds and other prohibited airspace is the primary responsibility of the safety pilot.
Hence, the safety pilot is very much equally responsible as the other pilot, for SAFETY OF THE FLIGHT.
Therefore, go ahead and log those hours !
Anyway, here's one way for you to PACIFY your conscience (if it pricks you
) regarding logging safety pilot hours ...See this in the Indian CARs : (Aircraft's act 1937) related to logging flight time :
(8) The holder of a Private Pilot’s Licence may log as pilot-in-command only the flight time during which he acts as pilot-in-command.
(9) The holder of a Commercial, Senior Commercial or Airline Transport Pilot’s Licence may log as pilot-in-command the flight time during which he acts as pilot-in-command. He shall log as co-pilot the flight time during which he acts as co-pilot.
Now the question is, IS A SAFETY PILOT ACTING AS THE PILOT IN COMMAND IN THAT FLIGHT ?
If you ask me frankly, I'd say YES.
Here's my justification :
What is the definition of pilot in command ?
Ans : (from the DGCA Aircraft's act 1937 )
(42) "Pilot-in Command" in respect of a pilot, -
(i) engaged in commercial operations means the pilot
designated by the operator as being in command and
charged with the safe conduct of a flight; and
(ii) engaged in general aviation or helicopter operations
means the pilot designated by the operator or owner
as being in command and charged with the safe
conduct of a flight;(i) engaged in commercial operations means the pilot
designated by the operator as being in command and
charged with the safe conduct of a flight; and
(ii) engaged in general aviation or helicopter operations
means the pilot designated by the operator or owner
as being in command and charged with the safe
IS THE FLIGHT SAFE IF THE PILOT MANIPULATING THE CONTROLS IS UNDER THE HOOD ?
NO !
Collision avoidance and looking out for potential danger in terms of traffic and terrain, and avoiding the clouds and other prohibited airspace is the primary responsibility of the safety pilot.
Hence, the safety pilot is very much equally responsible as the other pilot, for SAFETY OF THE FLIGHT.
Therefore, go ahead and log those hours !
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@ Shanx.
Informative Post.
I Anyways will be logging these Safety Pilot Hours other than the other requirements of DGCA, which basically means that these are extra hours and do not have any significance in the certificates the DGCA asks for Conversion thus i too see no problem in logging em as i had actually done the Safety Pilot Duty
Thanks a Lot Shanx youve been of great help.
Informative Post.
I Anyways will be logging these Safety Pilot Hours other than the other requirements of DGCA, which basically means that these are extra hours and do not have any significance in the certificates the DGCA asks for Conversion thus i too see no problem in logging em as i had actually done the Safety Pilot Duty
Thanks a Lot Shanx youve been of great help.
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Multi instruction in Indian Log book
Hi all,
I went thru all pages of this thread but still in confusion. I hav indian cpl with ir & mer in PA 34-200.I am using Indian log book (ie English book store,delhi). scenario is now I am going to take training on king air c90.I need to fly 10-15 hours for the type endorsement. I have only U/T , Co-pilot, PIC, P1(U/S) columns in my log book. hence which is the correct column for adding this multi instructional hours ?
I went thru all pages of this thread but still in confusion. I hav indian cpl with ir & mer in PA 34-200.I am using Indian log book (ie English book store,delhi). scenario is now I am going to take training on king air c90.I need to fly 10-15 hours for the type endorsement. I have only U/T , Co-pilot, PIC, P1(U/S) columns in my log book. hence which is the correct column for adding this multi instructional hours ?
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Ya i think I'll just stick to my old log book and get specific signatures near the errors in the entries. Thanks Shanx.
I was going through the form to be filled during application/conversion to a DGCA CPL, and came across this table which had me a little stumped. If someone who flew in the US (logging hrs after PPL as PIC), and got their license converted to an Indian, could spare a minute it would help a lot.
Page 2 from the link:
http://dgca.nic.in/forms/crew-d/cpl_a.PDF
The table only has places for S.E. day solo/dual, and S.E. night solo/dual. In this case where do I put in the PIC hours after PPL, done on a single engine? Mention in remarks? Make a new column?
Another quick question,
Supervised solo in an M.E. would come under PIC right? and dual under U/T
Thanks a lot!
I was going through the form to be filled during application/conversion to a DGCA CPL, and came across this table which had me a little stumped. If someone who flew in the US (logging hrs after PPL as PIC), and got their license converted to an Indian, could spare a minute it would help a lot.
Page 2 from the link:
http://dgca.nic.in/forms/crew-d/cpl_a.PDF
The table only has places for S.E. day solo/dual, and S.E. night solo/dual. In this case where do I put in the PIC hours after PPL, done on a single engine? Mention in remarks? Make a new column?
Another quick question,
Supervised solo in an M.E. would come under PIC right? and dual under U/T
Thanks a lot!
Last edited by nikhilheb; 10th Aug 2010 at 08:45. Reason: Incomplete post
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True
absolutely right, just fill up your FAA logbook with proper documentation. There are so many people trying to mess with new pilot's brains. I along with atleast 40 other Pilots did the FAA logbook sans any kind of summary(with all the transcript offcourse). And we have the license in hand.
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on a lighter note.....
Forget it dont fill it.... other than a license to look at .... it's not gonna get you ne thing....
On a serious note...
Why such confusion..... I have all my flying logged in as decimal hours... NO INDIAN log book..... even my type is looged in as decimal hours.....i did buy one of those EBS logbooks before my flying but never used it. If your papers are in order they'l give it to you....
Once you get back to India.... and by GOD ALMIGHTY's grace land not just on a runway but a job as well, start puttin in hh:mm.... I know quite a few who do that.
Forget it dont fill it.... other than a license to look at .... it's not gonna get you ne thing....
On a serious note...
Why such confusion..... I have all my flying logged in as decimal hours... NO INDIAN log book..... even my type is looged in as decimal hours.....i did buy one of those EBS logbooks before my flying but never used it. If your papers are in order they'l give it to you....
Once you get back to India.... and by GOD ALMIGHTY's grace land not just on a runway but a job as well, start puttin in hh:mm.... I know quite a few who do that.
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My Friends, Why Discussion
Submit your FAA Logbooks, nowhere in DGCA FoRMS it is mentioned that you need submit SEPERATE INDIAN LOGBOOKS.
Show me if it is.
CoMIng to discussion for Logging PIC After IR,
Do as your instructor in USA Says, follow him as long as you do your training in USA.
In INDIA before Multi [there where the confusion is]
Only Solo time is Considered as PIC,
But do not worry about logging time as PIC in FAA Logbooks. Log PIC, DUAL both. As they tell you in USA.
BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT, here is what you should take care of.
As in DGCA form point no 12. It is clearly mentioned that PIC what DGCA considers isAs PIC {Col (2) +(4)+(7)+(10)}
2: Solo day
4: Solo Night
7 and 10: Multi engine PIC day and night.
[In short, Only Solo before Multi is PIC]
Make sure you have these requirments, rest aside.
No one in this world, No Authority is As simple as DGCA.
Its just fools are lot more than what DGCA can take care of.
Do not follow advice from FOOLS [Pilots Who have never step foot in DGCA, never spoken with DGCA officials. Never Seen this form attached below]Follow only which can be authenticated at DGCA website.
http://dgca.nic.in/forms/crew-d/cpl_a.PDF
LONG LIVE DGCA. And belive me they are there for our own GOOD.
If you read and like my post please give feedback.
Show me if it is.
CoMIng to discussion for Logging PIC After IR,
Do as your instructor in USA Says, follow him as long as you do your training in USA.
In INDIA before Multi [there where the confusion is]
Only Solo time is Considered as PIC,
But do not worry about logging time as PIC in FAA Logbooks. Log PIC, DUAL both. As they tell you in USA.
BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT, here is what you should take care of.
As in DGCA form point no 12. It is clearly mentioned that PIC what DGCA considers isAs PIC {Col (2) +(4)+(7)+(10)}
2: Solo day
4: Solo Night
7 and 10: Multi engine PIC day and night.
[In short, Only Solo before Multi is PIC]
Make sure you have these requirments, rest aside.
No one in this world, No Authority is As simple as DGCA.
Its just fools are lot more than what DGCA can take care of.
Do not follow advice from FOOLS [Pilots Who have never step foot in DGCA, never spoken with DGCA officials. Never Seen this form attached below]Follow only which can be authenticated at DGCA website.
http://dgca.nic.in/forms/crew-d/cpl_a.PDF
LONG LIVE DGCA. And belive me they are there for our own GOOD.
If you read and like my post please give feedback.
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guys , my australian logbook is kinda messy with few whiteouts ! will DGCA create any issue during conversion or should i get the CFI to sign where all i've put the whitener ?? 
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Make New Logbook
If you are still in AUS, ask your CFI wether you can copy your logbook to new one, take same signatures everywhere as in previous logbook.
[even your instructors]. and then destroy old logbook.
First ask your CFI wether he will allow it [mostly he will].
If not, you should take signatures near errors.
I believe few whiteouts will be forgived as long as you have CA-39 Form signed on School's Letterhead, so that if DGCA doubts, than they can verify with your school.
Provide your feedback [Did you like my answer ?]
[even your instructors]. and then destroy old logbook.
First ask your CFI wether he will allow it [mostly he will].
If not, you should take signatures near errors.
I believe few whiteouts will be forgived as long as you have CA-39 Form signed on School's Letterhead, so that if DGCA doubts, than they can verify with your school.
Provide your feedback [Did you like my answer ?]
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What bout the ATA and ATD
as per the DGCA, the ATA and ATD is required which is not mentioned on the FAA log book. Is that a Problem as well?
Besides, this 100 hours PIC (which has to be solo, where did that come from?). I mean I have a huge amount of PIC time but most proabably about 80 hours is solo.
Advise.
Besides, this 100 hours PIC (which has to be solo, where did that come from?). I mean I have a huge amount of PIC time but most proabably about 80 hours is solo.
Advise.
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just one more thing
I have two log books actually...
one is from USA that has all the training records etc. but it doesn't has any ATA (Actual Time of Arrival) Or ATD( Departure Time). It is all good and signed by the CFI, CFII, MEI. But the school didnt stamp the log book nor has any certification. But I do have documents and recipts from the school that is signed and stamp. Which states the hours I flew at their school. Would this work as well?
Using the above, I got a conversion done and flying single turbines and now i have this log book where i forwarded all my hours from training that has all the commercial hours. it does have ATA and ATD. This log book is certified by the company i am working for.
For conversion, can i just forward my log book? Or do i also need to get my US log book endorsed?
one is from USA that has all the training records etc. but it doesn't has any ATA (Actual Time of Arrival) Or ATD( Departure Time). It is all good and signed by the CFI, CFII, MEI. But the school didnt stamp the log book nor has any certification. But I do have documents and recipts from the school that is signed and stamp. Which states the hours I flew at their school. Would this work as well?
Using the above, I got a conversion done and flying single turbines and now i have this log book where i forwarded all my hours from training that has all the commercial hours. it does have ATA and ATD. This log book is certified by the company i am working for.
For conversion, can i just forward my log book? Or do i also need to get my US log book endorsed?
Last edited by jackcarls0n; 10th Feb 2011 at 14:20. Reason: Adding stuff
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I have an FAA electronic logbook with 8000+ hrs and few type ratings. I have them neatly printed out and put in a binder. However, I do not have any instructor signatures or flight school seals. Will DGCA accept my logbook in the present form for an ATPL conversion? Thanks.
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you can see for your self
pull oyut DGCA conversion form from theri website, there is no column for PIC
Only SOLO, and mentioned below that only solo qualifies as PIC for all Single engine aircrafts
Only SOLO, and mentioned below that only solo qualifies as PIC for all Single engine aircrafts