Filling indian logbook...
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Cyrilroy. From what I understand, when DGCA asks for PIC time. It wants you and only you inside the Single Engine airplane.
Instrument Flying with Instructor is Dual Training Time and hence the Instructor is the PIC and you are Under Training.
I am not completely aware of the FAA Safety Pilot norms, but I do not think DGCA will be happy with the Safety Pilot in the Aircraft when you are Hour Building. Try to go up alone as much as you can.
Fly Safe !
Silent.
Instrument Flying with Instructor is Dual Training Time and hence the Instructor is the PIC and you are Under Training.
I am not completely aware of the FAA Safety Pilot norms, but I do not think DGCA will be happy with the Safety Pilot in the Aircraft when you are Hour Building. Try to go up alone as much as you can.
Fly Safe !
Silent.
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well i agree with the post above...
transport canada confirms with the idea above.. and we guys have pure solo...i.e me at the helm there was no such thing as safety pilot for us in the single engine cessna we flew..
@ cyril
i dont think logging urself as the pic while doing instrument would go down well with the babus
as for the safety pilot thing im a lil confused
my question to the more experienced guys here is that if something was to happen i.e an incident or something u bang d prop in.. or twist the under carriage happen to land in a field or something..then who will take the responsibility when the inquiry is set up??you or the guy in RHS i.e the "safety pilot"
p.s
i am not aware of all the CAR'S etc to the T bt i went through the dgca process unscathed so i thought i could advice to be safe then be hassled at the chai sipping babu's hands so keep it least complicated nd do not include the safety pilots name
transport canada confirms with the idea above.. and we guys have pure solo...i.e me at the helm there was no such thing as safety pilot for us in the single engine cessna we flew..
@ cyril
i dont think logging urself as the pic while doing instrument would go down well with the babus
as for the safety pilot thing im a lil confused
my question to the more experienced guys here is that if something was to happen i.e an incident or something u bang d prop in.. or twist the under carriage happen to land in a field or something..then who will take the responsibility when the inquiry is set up??you or the guy in RHS i.e the "safety pilot"
p.s
i am not aware of all the CAR'S etc to the T bt i went through the dgca process unscathed so i thought i could advice to be safe then be hassled at the chai sipping babu's hands so keep it least complicated nd do not include the safety pilots name
Last edited by tangowithtushar; 9th Aug 2009 at 04:57.
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I heard the dgca is very strict about corrections in the log book, I have erased some mistake with an erasor, will that be a problem? What do the dgca require us to do when we make a mistake in adding the columns etc.?
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Alfamissimo,
What is erased once, is gone. Can't do anything about it.
But for the future reference, keep it it mind that not just DGCA, But FAA, JAA, CASA and all other Aviation Authorities will want you to "strike out the mistake with a Single line" so as whatever your mistake was, that you had striked off, is visible to them and it can be proven a legitimate excuse. And if you would say that the Logbook would look messy, Well we should take care of that before writing.
Besides I am aware of Some Pilots painting their Log books with Whiteners and the likes. But I would not recomment that.
Silent.
What is erased once, is gone. Can't do anything about it.
But for the future reference, keep it it mind that not just DGCA, But FAA, JAA, CASA and all other Aviation Authorities will want you to "strike out the mistake with a Single line" so as whatever your mistake was, that you had striked off, is visible to them and it can be proven a legitimate excuse. And if you would say that the Logbook would look messy, Well we should take care of that before writing.
Besides I am aware of Some Pilots painting their Log books with Whiteners and the likes. But I would not recomment that.
Silent.
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thanks silent. My mistake was the total adding of the columns in some pages. I had asked my cfi to sign near that as well, the last page of the log book had no mistakes.
I have also got a document with the summary of the total hours in everything signed stamped by the chief flight instructor of the school and notarized. If dgca throws up a fuss, I guess I will have to fill a new logbook and courier it back for new stamps (every page in my log book is stamped and signed)!
I have also got a document with the summary of the total hours in everything signed stamped by the chief flight instructor of the school and notarized. If dgca throws up a fuss, I guess I will have to fill a new logbook and courier it back for new stamps (every page in my log book is stamped and signed)!
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alfamassimo,
Adding and Totaling mistakes are very common and you need not rub it from next time. Just do as i posted above.
Besides, You seem prepared. The possibilities of DGCA not accepting your Logbook entries when supported by other Documents is very Less. But do keep copies of all the certificates with you.
All the best with your Application.
Silent.
Adding and Totaling mistakes are very common and you need not rub it from next time. Just do as i posted above.
Besides, You seem prepared. The possibilities of DGCA not accepting your Logbook entries when supported by other Documents is very Less. But do keep copies of all the certificates with you.
All the best with your Application.
Silent.
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I hold FAA/DGCA/GCAA CPL and am an FAA CFI CFII MEI
now when i was doing my initial training in california..
after my private pilot single engine land v ride..
all my flight times were PIC except complex and multi engine..
and after i got my complex endorsement I was PIC on that too..
regarding Instrument Training.. as long as u r in VMC conditions ..
the trainee (if holding atleast a pvt) then he is the PIC
BUT if the aircraft enters IMC then only your instructor can log as PIC
ALSO I ve noticed a lot of people here talking abt Safety pilot and crap
you are completely illegal if you log flight hours as safety pilot according
DGCA cars.. So basically the matter of who s the PIC does not
arrise whenyou take another friend with you on your solo
The only person who has the right to log PIC from the right seat is your
instructor.. Also even if you are under the hood and your buddy is
reponsible for seeing and avoding traffic doesnt make him PIC..
For god sake even a student pilot can see
and avoid traffic..
SO DOES THAT MAKE HIM PIC ?
____________________________________________________________ ___
ALL THAT DGCA CARES IS ..
1. YOU HAVE YOUR MINIMUM REQUIRED HOURS.
2. YOU HAVE ALL YOUR CHECKRIDES SIGNED BY YOUR EXAMINER.
3. YOUR FLT OPS MANAGER OR CHIEF PILOT OF CFI HAS SIGNED YOUR LOG BOOK PAGES AND STAMPED IT.
THEY GIVE A DAMN ABOUT WHETHER YOUR LOGBOOK ENTRIES ARE IN DECIMALS OR HOURS.
ALSO FOR GUYS WHO ACT SMART DOING SAFETY PILOT FLYING ARE THE ONES WHO ARE LIKELY TO GET INTO TROUBLE..
BE STRAIGHTFORWARD AND ENSURE YOU HAVE YOUR MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS .. THERE IS NO BIG DEAL IN CONVERSION AT ALL..
AND DONT LISTEN TO
ESP FROM PEOPLE WHO GET TRAINED IN INDIA .. AFTERALL MOST OF THEM HAVE NEVER SEEN MORE THAN 2 AIRPORTS IN THEIR ENTIRE TRAINING PERIOD..
DGCA DOES NOT GIVE A DAMN EVEN IF YOUR INSTRUCTOR HAS NOT SIGNED AN DUAL FLIGHT .. BUT AM SURE EVERY ONE ESP IN UNITED STATES GETS IT BECAUSE ITS REQD THERE..
ALSO DONT SCRATCH OR ERASE ANYTHING IN YOUR LOGBOOK
OR IT MIGHT LEAD TO BABUS LOOKING FOR U UNDER THE TABLE
DONT OVER DO THINGS JUST BE URSELF
AND
GET UR BLUE BOOK ISSUED
HAPPY LANDINGS
now when i was doing my initial training in california..
after my private pilot single engine land v ride..
all my flight times were PIC except complex and multi engine..
and after i got my complex endorsement I was PIC on that too..
regarding Instrument Training.. as long as u r in VMC conditions ..
the trainee (if holding atleast a pvt) then he is the PIC
BUT if the aircraft enters IMC then only your instructor can log as PIC
ALSO I ve noticed a lot of people here talking abt Safety pilot and crap
you are completely illegal if you log flight hours as safety pilot according
DGCA cars.. So basically the matter of who s the PIC does not
arrise whenyou take another friend with you on your solo
The only person who has the right to log PIC from the right seat is your
instructor.. Also even if you are under the hood and your buddy is
reponsible for seeing and avoding traffic doesnt make him PIC..
For god sake even a student pilot can see
and avoid traffic..SO DOES THAT MAKE HIM PIC ?
____________________________________________________________ ___
ALL THAT DGCA CARES IS ..
1. YOU HAVE YOUR MINIMUM REQUIRED HOURS.
2. YOU HAVE ALL YOUR CHECKRIDES SIGNED BY YOUR EXAMINER.
3. YOUR FLT OPS MANAGER OR CHIEF PILOT OF CFI HAS SIGNED YOUR LOG BOOK PAGES AND STAMPED IT.
THEY GIVE A DAMN ABOUT WHETHER YOUR LOGBOOK ENTRIES ARE IN DECIMALS OR HOURS.
ALSO FOR GUYS WHO ACT SMART DOING SAFETY PILOT FLYING ARE THE ONES WHO ARE LIKELY TO GET INTO TROUBLE..
BE STRAIGHTFORWARD AND ENSURE YOU HAVE YOUR MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS .. THERE IS NO BIG DEAL IN CONVERSION AT ALL..
AND DONT LISTEN TO
ESP FROM PEOPLE WHO GET TRAINED IN INDIA .. AFTERALL MOST OF THEM HAVE NEVER SEEN MORE THAN 2 AIRPORTS IN THEIR ENTIRE TRAINING PERIOD..DGCA DOES NOT GIVE A DAMN EVEN IF YOUR INSTRUCTOR HAS NOT SIGNED AN DUAL FLIGHT .. BUT AM SURE EVERY ONE ESP IN UNITED STATES GETS IT BECAUSE ITS REQD THERE..
ALSO DONT SCRATCH OR ERASE ANYTHING IN YOUR LOGBOOK
OR IT MIGHT LEAD TO BABUS LOOKING FOR U UNDER THE TABLE
DONT OVER DO THINGS JUST BE URSELF
AND GET UR BLUE BOOK ISSUED
HAPPY LANDINGS
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@ Indianair967, Agreed.
But usually when a student does Instrument Training, He/ She is in VFR, but under the Hood, and thats the time the Instructor is looking out. So in this case, The flight would still be PIC for the Instructor and Under Training for Student.
Wouldn't it ?
And I would request you to remove the Caps in the Later part of your post. Makes it difficult to read.
Silent.
But usually when a student does Instrument Training, He/ She is in VFR, but under the Hood, and thats the time the Instructor is looking out. So in this case, The flight would still be PIC for the Instructor and Under Training for Student.
Wouldn't it ?
And I would request you to remove the Caps in the Later part of your post. Makes it difficult to read.
Silent.
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But usually when a student does Instrument Training, He/ She is in VFR, but under the Hood, and thats the time the Instructor is looking out. So in this case, The flight would still be PIC for the Instructor and Under Training for Student.
Wouldn't it ?
Wouldn't it ?
And I would request you to remove the Caps in the Later part of your post. Makes it difficult to read.
cheers!
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When a Private Pilot is on the left seat under the hood in VMC alone in the aircraft, then that flight IS NOT LEGAL. Why ? Because by definition ... PIC is one responsible for safety of the flight. If a pilot is under the hood, then he can not see outside and watch for traffic. Apart from collision avoidance, PIC is also responsible for other things ... like maintaining certain distance and height from clouds in order to maintain rules governing such criteria in different classes of Airspaces.
(example, in class C airspace in the US, the PIC is responsible to see to it that he maintains atleast 500 feet below, 1000ft above and 2000 ft horizontal distance from clouds in order to LEGALLY remain VFR).
1. If weather conditions begin to worsen, like for example visibiity becoming lower, light rain obscuring vision, mountainous terrain in the vicinity which would mean maintaining atleast 2000 feet vertical distance in designated mountanous areas etc ..
2.Also, PIC MUST SEE TO IT that he does not fly into Prohibited areas, Restricted Areas etc when flying VFR.
3. If overtaking other aircraft when on the same airway or course, then it is the responsibility of the PILOT IN COMMAND to overtake the RIGHT WAY ... ie by overtaking the traffic from the RIGHT.
THUS THERE ARE LOTS AND LOTS OF RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE PILOT IN COMMAND.
The above can NOT be accomplished at all by someone wearing under the hood on the left seat EVEN though he may possess all the necessary certificates/ratings.
HENCE THE REQUIREMENT OF A SAFETY PILOT.
The safety pilot has a HELL OF A LOT of responsibilities which is DEFINITELY a lot more than simply terming it as "looking outside" or for some people, a joyride !!!!!!!!!!!
(example, in class C airspace in the US, the PIC is responsible to see to it that he maintains atleast 500 feet below, 1000ft above and 2000 ft horizontal distance from clouds in order to LEGALLY remain VFR).
1. If weather conditions begin to worsen, like for example visibiity becoming lower, light rain obscuring vision, mountainous terrain in the vicinity which would mean maintaining atleast 2000 feet vertical distance in designated mountanous areas etc ..
2.Also, PIC MUST SEE TO IT that he does not fly into Prohibited areas, Restricted Areas etc when flying VFR.
3. If overtaking other aircraft when on the same airway or course, then it is the responsibility of the PILOT IN COMMAND to overtake the RIGHT WAY ... ie by overtaking the traffic from the RIGHT.
THUS THERE ARE LOTS AND LOTS OF RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE PILOT IN COMMAND.
The above can NOT be accomplished at all by someone wearing under the hood on the left seat EVEN though he may possess all the necessary certificates/ratings.
HENCE THE REQUIREMENT OF A SAFETY PILOT.
The safety pilot has a HELL OF A LOT of responsibilities which is DEFINITELY a lot more than simply terming it as "looking outside" or for some people, a joyride !!!!!!!!!!!
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@Cyrilroy21
To answer your questions specifically :
My training was done under part 91, hence we did not have to do much of time building in order to meet the minimum hour requirements according to FAR... therefore All my flight time in my logbook has been either alone or with an Instructor.
(except for about 8 hours when I rented an aircraft to take my family out for a joyride ! ... )
We all know that FARs specifically mention the safety pilot thing and permit the safety pilot to log PIC.
Now, is that legal under the DGCA ?
Well, here is an interesting way to look at it :
This is what the DGCA CARs (Act of 1937) says about Private Pilots and logging PIC time :
" The holder of a Private Pilot’s Licence may log as pilot-in-command only the flight time during which he acts as pilot-in-command. "
NOTE THAT it is NOT mentioned that the private pilot MUST be sitting on left seat or right seat or anything. or that he should even be at the controls.
Being a safety pilot MOST DEFINITELY means ACTING as the PILOT IN COMMAND because without a safety pilot, the flight is TOTALLY UNSAFE and ILLEGAL.
Hence, that one line ... which is .....
The holder of a Private Pilot’s Licence may log as pilot-in-command only the flight time during which he acts as pilot-in-command.
.... SAYS IT ALL.
WHEN A PRIVATE PILOT IS SITTING ON THE RIGHT SEAT AND PERFORMING THE DUTIES OF A SAFETY PILOT, THEN HE IS ACTING AS PILOT IN COMMAND.
To answer your questions specifically :
My training was done under part 91, hence we did not have to do much of time building in order to meet the minimum hour requirements according to FAR... therefore All my flight time in my logbook has been either alone or with an Instructor.
(except for about 8 hours when I rented an aircraft to take my family out for a joyride ! ... )
We all know that FARs specifically mention the safety pilot thing and permit the safety pilot to log PIC.
Now, is that legal under the DGCA ?
Well, here is an interesting way to look at it :
This is what the DGCA CARs (Act of 1937) says about Private Pilots and logging PIC time :
" The holder of a Private Pilot’s Licence may log as pilot-in-command only the flight time during which he acts as pilot-in-command. "
NOTE THAT it is NOT mentioned that the private pilot MUST be sitting on left seat or right seat or anything. or that he should even be at the controls.
Being a safety pilot MOST DEFINITELY means ACTING as the PILOT IN COMMAND because without a safety pilot, the flight is TOTALLY UNSAFE and ILLEGAL.
Hence, that one line ... which is .....
The holder of a Private Pilot’s Licence may log as pilot-in-command only the flight time during which he acts as pilot-in-command.
.... SAYS IT ALL.
WHEN A PRIVATE PILOT IS SITTING ON THE RIGHT SEAT AND PERFORMING THE DUTIES OF A SAFETY PILOT, THEN HE IS ACTING AS PILOT IN COMMAND.
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Now ... in all honesty, how should you log this safety pilot time ?
again, back to the same line from the DGCA CARs ... The holder of a Private Pilot’s Licence may log as pilot-in-command only the flight time during which he acts as pilot-in-command.
Lets say you and your buddy go on a flight on a perfectly VFR day, and he wants to practice some instrument approaches.
You are the designated safety pilot.
You may log PIC time ONLY when you are the ACTING PIC ... ie. shortly after take off or whenever your buddy on the left seat goes under the hood and flies solely by reference to airplane's instruments.
Obviously you are not the PIC or performing safety pilot duties when your buddy on the left seat is taxiing on the ground.
Hence, log PIC time ONLY for that amount of time when you are performing the duties of pilot in command .... that is .. while performing the duties which are vital to the safety of the flight when your buddy in the left seat is under the hood ... OR .. in other words .... when you are the safety pilot !!!
again, back to the same line from the DGCA CARs ... The holder of a Private Pilot’s Licence may log as pilot-in-command only the flight time during which he acts as pilot-in-command.
Lets say you and your buddy go on a flight on a perfectly VFR day, and he wants to practice some instrument approaches.
You are the designated safety pilot.
You may log PIC time ONLY when you are the ACTING PIC ... ie. shortly after take off or whenever your buddy on the left seat goes under the hood and flies solely by reference to airplane's instruments.
Obviously you are not the PIC or performing safety pilot duties when your buddy on the left seat is taxiing on the ground.
Hence, log PIC time ONLY for that amount of time when you are performing the duties of pilot in command .... that is .. while performing the duties which are vital to the safety of the flight when your buddy in the left seat is under the hood ... OR .. in other words .... when you are the safety pilot !!!
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guys guys, keep it simple ...
1) No need for an indian log book. keep 1 logbook. or 2, 3 etc. if your first log book finishes!
2) all the IR training that you do after your PPL is dual.
3) do not log safety pilot time.
4) make sure you get your 100 hrs PIC time in the form of solo xc's, local flying and FAA checks.
5) overwriting, use of whitener is ok. after all we are pilots and we make mistakes!
6) follow the dgca conversion chart and make sure you get all the certificates in order. as we all know. dgca loves paperwork.
thank you!
1) No need for an indian log book. keep 1 logbook. or 2, 3 etc. if your first log book finishes!
2) all the IR training that you do after your PPL is dual.
3) do not log safety pilot time.
4) make sure you get your 100 hrs PIC time in the form of solo xc's, local flying and FAA checks.
5) overwriting, use of whitener is ok. after all we are pilots and we make mistakes!
6) follow the dgca conversion chart and make sure you get all the certificates in order. as we all know. dgca loves paperwork.
thank you!
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@Cyrilroy21
Not at all. The DGCA is understaffed and have their hands full with lots of other far more important issues to deal with as of now, than checking a CPL applicant's entries in his logbook.
Ofcourse, like IndAir967 stated little earlier ... as and when some clerk wants his "Chai-Paani", he might look for the most stupid or vague reason to "meet the candidate under the table" !!
YOU BET !!
BINGO ! 
Say i do log instrument time as PIC and also safety pilot as PIC
i don't think so the dgca will find out until and unless they open and actually examine the entries in the logbook .
i don't think so the dgca will find out until and unless they open and actually examine the entries in the logbook .
Ofcourse, like IndAir967 stated little earlier ... as and when some clerk wants his "Chai-Paani", he might look for the most stupid or vague reason to "meet the candidate under the table" !!
At the end of the day they''ll check statements given to me by the flying school
which will say the total time flown , how PIC i have and how much cross country i flew solo
which will say the total time flown , how PIC i have and how much cross country i flew solo
SO i am hoping that as long as the dgca dosen't examine my logbook
I should be safe right ?
I should be safe right ?
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I'm sorry if this was mentioned before and I missed it, but can someone please just give me a format of the monthly summaries required?
Also, are the summaries supposed to be hours specific or airplane specific?
Thanks in advance.
Also, are the summaries supposed to be hours specific or airplane specific?
Thanks in advance.
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examining Logbooks
Well not sure of what DGCA is into when they are processing the CPL requests, but i do know they sometimes / rarely / very rarely do find out, like this guy who probably had logged fake hours or something or probably over logged his hours, (Im sure he must have exxagerated a lot lol!) his application was rejected and the Flight School was cross checked with & notified.
i know this cuz it was the same flight school where i trained. The CFI there was very furious on him when he came back to complete his hours as he already knew of this.
Well dont know the reason why it happened but it did. So all you people overlogging (PLEASE AVOID OVER/FAKE LOGGING- FLY THOSE HOURS ITS WORTH IT) keep your fingers crossed till you get your license! Just my 2Cents!
i know this cuz it was the same flight school where i trained. The CFI there was very furious on him when he came back to complete his hours as he already knew of this.
Well dont know the reason why it happened but it did. So all you people overlogging (PLEASE AVOID OVER/FAKE LOGGING- FLY THOSE HOURS ITS WORTH IT) keep your fingers crossed till you get your license! Just my 2Cents!
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hi guys, i have a crappy gleim logbook which i dont want to use in India. I need to buy a new logbook.. I was thinking of a JEPPESEN logbook... what kinda is the best?
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A little help with filling the EBS logbook
Greetings,
I purchased the burgundy-colored 'Personal Flying Logbook' from The English Book Store.
With an example, could some of you advise me on how to go about entering data in every column, flight times and other data?
1. In Column 1, should the 'Month' be written in numbers or words?
2. In Column 2, what goes under 'Type' and 'Engines'?
3. Are actual names expected in columns 3 and 4?
4. Are 4-letter airports (KMIA) acceptable in Column 5 under 'From' and 'To'?
If no, does the state need to be entered as well? For instance, 'Miami, Florida'?
5. Lastly, how are flight times entered? On the adjacent page, at the bottom right corner, the flight time that goes under 'Actual Flying Hours to be carried forward' would be the same as the total flight time that goes under 'PIC' or 'Co-pilot' (6 and 7)
Looking forward to some guidance, in this regard.
Thanks
I purchased the burgundy-colored 'Personal Flying Logbook' from The English Book Store.
With an example, could some of you advise me on how to go about entering data in every column, flight times and other data?
1. In Column 1, should the 'Month' be written in numbers or words?
2. In Column 2, what goes under 'Type' and 'Engines'?
3. Are actual names expected in columns 3 and 4?
4. Are 4-letter airports (KMIA) acceptable in Column 5 under 'From' and 'To'?
If no, does the state need to be entered as well? For instance, 'Miami, Florida'?
5. Lastly, how are flight times entered? On the adjacent page, at the bottom right corner, the flight time that goes under 'Actual Flying Hours to be carried forward' would be the same as the total flight time that goes under 'PIC' or 'Co-pilot' (6 and 7)
Looking forward to some guidance, in this regard.
Thanks