Jet2 Emergency Landing at East Midlands
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Jet2evac
We have now arrived at a time, certainly in the loco market, when the CC are now employed more as sales people than guardians of the SLF's safety.
1.Management recognise this, hence the vast majority of time on recurrent training is "sales technique" or some other meaningless "take me there" rubbish.
2. The SLF accept this as the norm, wearing headphones, reading their paper, picking their noses, chatting or whatever comes to mind rather than watching/ listening to the safety brief.
The sole guardians of the whole operation are usually the crews, both flight deck and Cabin. They try, and usually succeed, to do their best in very challenging circumstances; getting little support from management (see 1above) and no respect from the SLF. (See 2 above)
Most of the time it bumbles along OK until something goes wrong, say an unplanned evac. Then all hell is let loose, SLF videoing it on the their phones which should be off but frequently aren't. The press (oh dear), sensing a scoop, construct a "we were all going to die scenario", and subsequently the pax, sensing a claim for "compensation" as "we were all going to die." It was in the papers!
If we recall the BA 777 crash at LHR, next day, the crew were treated as heroes; full press coverage with the Captain and FO paraded in the full glare of BA's headquarters. A similar incident with a LOCOs and what happens?
1.Management recognise this, hence the vast majority of time on recurrent training is "sales technique" or some other meaningless "take me there" rubbish.
2. The SLF accept this as the norm, wearing headphones, reading their paper, picking their noses, chatting or whatever comes to mind rather than watching/ listening to the safety brief.
The sole guardians of the whole operation are usually the crews, both flight deck and Cabin. They try, and usually succeed, to do their best in very challenging circumstances; getting little support from management (see 1above) and no respect from the SLF. (See 2 above)
Most of the time it bumbles along OK until something goes wrong, say an unplanned evac. Then all hell is let loose, SLF videoing it on the their phones which should be off but frequently aren't. The press (oh dear), sensing a scoop, construct a "we were all going to die scenario", and subsequently the pax, sensing a claim for "compensation" as "we were all going to die." It was in the papers!
If we recall the BA 777 crash at LHR, next day, the crew were treated as heroes; full press coverage with the Captain and FO paraded in the full glare of BA's headquarters. A similar incident with a LOCOs and what happens?
Last edited by Ivan aromer; 25th Sep 2014 at 18:51.
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Jet2 Emergency Landing at East Midlands
Ah yes FR had a duel engine failure on short finals due to multiple bird strikes. It's barely mentioned... I do agree that the CC are treated as sales dolls. But in saying that any emergency situations that have arisen in the two loco carriers I have worked for the CC have dealt with it very well. I had the opinion at first they were a little dim. I was surprised and well I do believe they deserve respect. However I agree with the point above. Managers above them see them as a sales tool. Primarily!
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in the two loco carriers I have worked for the CC have dealt with it very well
I ask, because in a number of cases that I have experienced, a very experienced CC has taken the required action, thus halting the sequence of events that would otherwise be a major problem.
I was seriously disappointed when cabin crew briefings on safety related items lasted for less than ¼ of the time allotted to sales, and the current 'prime' product.
And that is the norm in many places.
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Pozidrive- Cabin crew are not licenced. But they do have to undergo specified training course. On completion they have to demonstrate by examination that a minimum level of understanding has been achieved. Just like pilots.
To the rest of the contributors in this thread may I say thank you. The subject of passengers and their safety is getting the input it needs. The complicated problem of briefing modern passengers and then getting them to comply with safety instructions when necessary will be a tough nut to crack. Unfortunately, like all complicated problems the solution will not be simple. Issues such as respect (or lack there-of) for others, unrealistic expectations by members of the public, inaccurate and poor researched reporting by the media, poor back-up by the legal system, lack of realistic oversight by the regulator and near the top if this incomplete list; a cynical lack of focus of what being a member of cabin crew is all about by virtually everybody who comes into contact with them.
I fear however, we will only move towards a solution when we start maiming and killing people. Our only hope of a rapid solution is that a charter flight full of politicians gets into distress.
To the rest of the contributors in this thread may I say thank you. The subject of passengers and their safety is getting the input it needs. The complicated problem of briefing modern passengers and then getting them to comply with safety instructions when necessary will be a tough nut to crack. Unfortunately, like all complicated problems the solution will not be simple. Issues such as respect (or lack there-of) for others, unrealistic expectations by members of the public, inaccurate and poor researched reporting by the media, poor back-up by the legal system, lack of realistic oversight by the regulator and near the top if this incomplete list; a cynical lack of focus of what being a member of cabin crew is all about by virtually everybody who comes into contact with them.
I fear however, we will only move towards a solution when we start maiming and killing people. Our only hope of a rapid solution is that a charter flight full of politicians gets into distress.
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Thank you Piltdown Man.
I didn't know if there was a statutory qualification or an NVQ.
I am aware of the situation at sea. The difference here is that certainly on cruise ships there is more time available for safety drills. Also incidents develop over a longer timescale than an emergency in the air?
Shorter ferry crossings are probably a better comparison - a loudspeaker briefing, which may be easily ignored.
I didn't know if there was a statutory qualification or an NVQ.
I am aware of the situation at sea. The difference here is that certainly on cruise ships there is more time available for safety drills. Also incidents develop over a longer timescale than an emergency in the air?
Shorter ferry crossings are probably a better comparison - a loudspeaker briefing, which may be easily ignored.
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RYR cabin crew carry a licence, but I don't know whether that is an IAA or just a company thing.
I would dearly love to see a change in terms - if they were called cabin safety crew, then it'd cause a change in mindset towards (and in the cases of the small minority of their more immature members, by) them. In the same way, I hate being referred to a Flight Deck - it is a deliberate misnoma that encourages others to dehumanise us and think of as as an aircraft component rather than a trained professional. Call the cc safety crew and I reckon it'd change passenger attitudes quite quickly and management attitudes too, eventually.
I would dearly love to see a change in terms - if they were called cabin safety crew, then it'd cause a change in mindset towards (and in the cases of the small minority of their more immature members, by) them. In the same way, I hate being referred to a Flight Deck - it is a deliberate misnoma that encourages others to dehumanise us and think of as as an aircraft component rather than a trained professional. Call the cc safety crew and I reckon it'd change passenger attitudes quite quickly and management attitudes too, eventually.
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M84. You know it's funny, I was crew for a LCC. All equipment was checked at the start of every shift and handed over to the next crew too. If you didn't see the next crew you checked all safety equipment. Sorry but a plane full of pax is not the time to be checking you have the correct number of first aid kits, or that O2 bottles are stored correctly. If you have a plane full of pax, then you need to give em your full attention and maintain situational awareness, and not be faffing about.
You seem to have some beef with the LCCs. You missing the days or airline regulation? Isn't it time you got over that?
You seem to have some beef with the LCCs. You missing the days or airline regulation? Isn't it time you got over that?
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Safety Awareness
To me the big problem is we are trying to educate the average flying Joe within a very small window during the initial brief. What it requires is a more detailed audio visual brief. Better animation or actual "live" condition shots to explain anything from donning on a life jacket to cabin filled smoke evacuation.
This process does not have to just take place once just before take-off. How about ongoing education...if we educate the mass flying public, the system as present, can cater for the first timers.
We could have safety snippets during your movie...irritating yes, but driving the message through...while you are having your on-board meal.... how about ads on the Discovery channel...
I suspect we have a culture of not wanting to upset our all important paying guests. Strange, when most reality TV shows now-day's delight in participants being either degraded or made to feel really uncomfortable....sounds familiar to air travel.
Companies now believe that the current briefing system is the best we can do.....in all fairness, it is far off the mark ( no disrespect to the safety guys who put a lot of effort into the background work & R&D ).
How about a TV show where the participants battle the elements and fellow competitors to exit the mangled, burning and obstacle ridden wreckage for a cash prize ( or in LCC terms, a free ticket to Malta ) ?
Come on Richard, you up for the task ?
This process does not have to just take place once just before take-off. How about ongoing education...if we educate the mass flying public, the system as present, can cater for the first timers.
We could have safety snippets during your movie...irritating yes, but driving the message through...while you are having your on-board meal.... how about ads on the Discovery channel...
I suspect we have a culture of not wanting to upset our all important paying guests. Strange, when most reality TV shows now-day's delight in participants being either degraded or made to feel really uncomfortable....sounds familiar to air travel.
Companies now believe that the current briefing system is the best we can do.....in all fairness, it is far off the mark ( no disrespect to the safety guys who put a lot of effort into the background work & R&D ).
How about a TV show where the participants battle the elements and fellow competitors to exit the mangled, burning and obstacle ridden wreckage for a cash prize ( or in LCC terms, a free ticket to Malta ) ?
Come on Richard, you up for the task ?
Last edited by Golf_Seirra; 4th Oct 2014 at 19:00.
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I see EK have just had an evacuation. Full service airlines evacuate! Who knew, I thought it was just LCCs who evacuated.
Well, what do you know their pax evacuated with their bags, despite their fancy safety video and mightily superior cabin crew, the likes of which us mere LCC crew can only aspire to.
Well, what do you know their pax evacuated with their bags, despite their fancy safety video and mightily superior cabin crew, the likes of which us mere LCC crew can only aspire to.
