ANA 787 makes emergency landing due 'battery fire warning'
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Smoke Movement
In the DC-3s we opened the cockpit windows to cool the cabin. The air flowed forward. One wide open cockpit window created quite a strong wind. Two open windows was too strong a breeze.
I would think that any fire would get worse in such a breeze.
I would think that any fire would get worse in such a breeze.
ANA, JAL
Anyone know how 'old' these planes are? And if they were some of the earlier ones off the production line, how long they might have been sitting around through some of the initial rework? With batteries installed?
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DozyWannabe
I have no idea why you're addressing this to me, or even what the schadenfreude reference is in relation to. As a result of this latest incident I said that I would be surprised if the aircraft isn't grounded and have just heard on the radio that 2 operators in Japan have done just that. I get no pleasure from seeing aircraft sitting on the ground I assure you!
@Squawk-7600 - That's not the same thing as "blaming" Boeing though, is it?
As is invariably the case these days, the components have come from all over the world, and from various suppliers - it's no different for Airbus. If ANA ground their B787s then that's a matter for them and Boeing to hash out in terms of responsibility - it's not a given that Boeing themselves are responsible for the problem, just as it's not a given that Airbus are solely responsible for any issues on their types.
[EDIT : Tempting as it may be to engage in "schadenfreude", it just makes the person that does so look like as much of an arse as the folks who do so when the boot is on the other foot. Be a grown-up - don't fall into that trap!]
As is invariably the case these days, the components have come from all over the world, and from various suppliers - it's no different for Airbus. If ANA ground their B787s then that's a matter for them and Boeing to hash out in terms of responsibility - it's not a given that Boeing themselves are responsible for the problem, just as it's not a given that Airbus are solely responsible for any issues on their types.
[EDIT : Tempting as it may be to engage in "schadenfreude", it just makes the person that does so look like as much of an arse as the folks who do so when the boot is on the other foot. Be a grown-up - don't fall into that trap!]
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QR
Qatar has a few 787's and if it is the battery it will be fun to see what happens there in the Summer in the Desert. It will be 50 degrees Celsius outside, 70 degrees in the E&E compartments, those babies will be Boiling!!Could be a Fireworks display if not fixed soon!
''Bad batteries, nothing to do with aircraft type? How can you blame Boeing on this?''
Quite easily. I question the wisdom of encasing so many lithium-ion batteries in a plastic fuselage. If it's Boeing, I'm not going!
Quite easily. I question the wisdom of encasing so many lithium-ion batteries in a plastic fuselage. If it's Boeing, I'm not going!
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Have Boeing just been too agressive in their power & weight demands of the L-ion batteries? Most battery fires appear to be caused by overly thin insulation (reduced weight) and squeezing the last milli-watt of charge (the last few percent) into the battery - necessay for mobile phones & laptops, but for planes?
Would a few grams more weight and a few hunderd less mill-watt hours per battery really make a difference on a plane?
How long do Boing expect their craft to operate in-flight without main generators, or on the ground without an APU?
Would a few grams more weight and a few hunderd less mill-watt hours per battery really make a difference on a plane?
How long do Boing expect their craft to operate in-flight without main generators, or on the ground without an APU?
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..both the passengers and the pilots "smelled something strange" !?
I wonder... was it before that "battery smoke" message or ~1 min after
I wonder... was it before that "battery smoke" message or ~1 min after
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Whoever used the term "over reaction" may not have keyed in on the presence of smoke in the cabin. Smoke in the cabin, or the smell thereof, especially when the source is unknown or inaccessible, is an immediate and dire emergency.
In a pressurized airplane, smoke will travel to the outflow valve(s). The route it will take depends on the design of the pressurization system and the configuration of the valves, but that is the only place it is going.
In a pressurized airplane, smoke will travel to the outflow valve(s). The route it will take depends on the design of the pressurization system and the configuration of the valves, but that is the only place it is going.
Last edited by BobnSpike; 16th Jan 2013 at 06:20.
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Only a year after launch I believe there are around 49 Boeing 787s in service. Compare this to the A380 where there were only a handfull in service and problems were fixed as they happened. All 787s problems appear to be happening together. From a public confidence point of view perhaps a softer launch of the 787 would have been less damaging to Boeing.
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Good thing the smoke event occured on a domestic flight rather than somewhere above Siberia or the Pacific with the next diversion airport hours away.
Since I have a seat on the HND to FRA flight little more than a week from now, I am curious as to whether ANA will cancel flights or have enough 777s to fill the gap, or worse be tempted to resume flights before the issue has been fully understood.
Since I have a seat on the HND to FRA flight little more than a week from now, I am curious as to whether ANA will cancel flights or have enough 777s to fill the gap, or worse be tempted to resume flights before the issue has been fully understood.
Last edited by BRE; 16th Jan 2013 at 06:40.
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Fleetwide grounding? Don't think so, it's a Boeing. FAA don't ground boeings...
But it surprises me that it remains ETOPS.
BTW if you look at the picture in this link worldnews.nbcnews , don't the slides look steeper then on older types?
But it surprises me that it remains ETOPS.
BTW if you look at the picture in this link worldnews.nbcnews , don't the slides look steeper then on older types?
Pegase Driver
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If I remember correctly Apple had a similar problems with its very first iPhones 3, (batteries exploding and catching fire..) very quickly the company found a fix and I have not heard the problem coming back since ( or it is well kept away from news).
So it would look like a technical solution does exists.
For those discussing the way smoke moves inside an aircraft cabin/cockpit , you may want to read through some of the pages of the final report of SR111.
So it would look like a technical solution does exists.
For those discussing the way smoke moves inside an aircraft cabin/cockpit , you may want to read through some of the pages of the final report of SR111.
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You guys have to stop believing everything you read or hear from the media. By now one would think you all would know better.
There is no battery fire warning EICAS message in the 787 or for that matter any Boeing airplane that I know of.
In addition, the flight deck is slightly over pressurized on both the 777 and 787 so as to keep smoke and fumes out. The flight deck does not use a recirculated air source for the same reason. It actually uses 100% fresh air at all times. If there are smoke and fumes present on the flight deck, most likely the source is there as well. The battery is a long ways back in the aft EE compartment, so smelling it on the flight deck is unlikely.
The Cabin Air Compressors (CAC) have been know to overheat. Just say'n!
There is no battery fire warning EICAS message in the 787 or for that matter any Boeing airplane that I know of.
In addition, the flight deck is slightly over pressurized on both the 777 and 787 so as to keep smoke and fumes out. The flight deck does not use a recirculated air source for the same reason. It actually uses 100% fresh air at all times. If there are smoke and fumes present on the flight deck, most likely the source is there as well. The battery is a long ways back in the aft EE compartment, so smelling it on the flight deck is unlikely.
The Cabin Air Compressors (CAC) have been know to overheat. Just say'n!
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If talking about smoke from a L-ion battery, what does it consist of ? How poisonous is that smoke ? Does the "non-toxic" requirement for burning aircraft interior apply to batteries as well ? After all, Lithium is a strong drug!
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There is no battery fire warning EICAS message in the 787 or for that matter any Boeing airplane that I know of.
On my fight deck, unusual smell and a battery temp caution would lead me to believe my battery is getting warm. Couple that with a recent history of on-type battery over temp incidents and my minds made up
If there are smoke and fumes present on the flight deck, most likely the source is there as well. The battery is a long ways back in the aft EE compartment, so smelling it on the flight deck is unlikely.
APU battery is in the aft EE compartment. The Main Aircraft battery is a lot further forward. (I think the forward EE Compartment)
Apparently the batteries are supplied (manufactured) by a Japanese company. Oh the irony.
