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Old 29th Dec 2012, 08:42   #1161 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
The report found that there was a flaw with the fuel transmission to this right-hand side engine which could have been giving more power than the left-hand side engine. This means there was a potential for the plane to be unbalanced as it landed.

“The aircraft may well not have ended up inverted on its back had both engines been delivering equal and balanced power,” Healy-Pratt, from specialist aviation lawyers Stewarts Law LLP, said.

“Indeed the power imbalance probably resulted in one wing dropping and hitting the ground first, resulting in the aircraft rolling over.
The rigging is hardly Honeywells fault. Neither is the old engine new engines differences in power spool up.

Honeywell have actually quite a good pilot education program and also engineering thats quite reasonably priced.

It doesn't matter what limits the OEM put in the manuals if the operator doesn't spend the money on the maint your not going to have a pair of well rigged engines.

Rigging the engines takes a day for two engineers and also a test flight. Its normally done as required after some major maint with the control runs or after a heavy check.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 09:08   #1162 (permalink)
DB6
 
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If the loonies would just start walking into law firms rather than schools when they are feeling a bit batey with the world, then we might start to see some progress.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 10:06   #1163 (permalink)
 
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I don't think I have flown a pair of garretts without them being slightly out on the flight idles or they have slightly different spool up times.

Thats why they give us rudder pedals and a balance ball.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 10:11   #1164 (permalink)
 
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Red herring - all the more reason not to around below DA - culpable negligence by the crew - next please!
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 10:20   #1165 (permalink)
 
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It's a long time since I worked on TPE331s, but what has spool up time got to do with this? The engines run at 100% RPM except in cruise where it's 97%.
I suspect you mean an un-even increase in power due to throttle stagger or internal FCU issues.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 10:32   #1166 (permalink)
 
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Sorry prob the wrong term.

I was using spool up as the amount of time it takes to go from flight idle up to 100% torque or whatever the TOGA power setting is on that airframe.

It does vary between engines.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 13:41   #1167 (permalink)
 
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New Name for Manx2

Manx2 is from January going to be called "Citywing" due to management buyout but Noel Hayes will remain as Chairman. I always thought buyouts meant you got rid of the old owners but apparently not in this case.

Funny how they still use the flight numbers of FLM (NM) even after their departure from M2. Now its flown by Van Air and Links Air according to the website. Who will be the extra 2013 AOCs? Van Air are starting up again in Shoreham under with another virtual airline Brighton City Wings doing a Ryanair style to Paris Pointoise i.e. only 22 miles away.

I wonder how the increase in APD for all aircraft over 5700kgs is going to effect pax numbers as it goes from £0 to £13 in April so their fare advantage goes. Altough the IOM Gov will not impose new APD in IOM.

Anyone got a spare Caravan II for BLK-IOM operations?
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 17:19   #1168 (permalink)
 
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This smells a bit, too. The lawyers won't sue a company with no money, but Honeywell and co are fair game. A question to those of you who have flown this aircraft. If there was a fault, as they are suggesting, wouldn't the crew have noticed this on the first two attempts and compensated accordingly?
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 10:14   #1169 (permalink)
 
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it's about time this three-card trick with airlines, AOC's and their aircraft was stopped IMHO
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 10:21   #1170 (permalink)
 
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They have to issue a statement on the status of the investigation every year until the final one is issued.

On that note if any of the affected familys are reading my thoughts will be with you on the day. An update report coming out just before will be like a knife twisting in the wound.

And the pilots familys please don't let the technical side of the pilots actions hang to heavily. Most experenced crews know that they were given way way to much rope to hang themselves with. So technically they will be held at fault but most of us know that they are victims of the operation and managment that employed them.
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Old 25th Jan 2013, 10:45   #1171 (permalink)
 
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has any legal action began from affected passengers and familys?
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Old 26th Jan 2013, 17:47   #1172 (permalink)
 
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Yes. Follow this link:

US lawsuit taken against manufacturers of Cork Airport crash plane
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Old 3rd Feb 2013, 10:48   #1173 (permalink)
 
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These Garrett engines must be the most responsive turboprop engines ever.

The props are direct drive from the engine! There's no 'free' turbine to spool up in the efflux from the gas generator before power is delivered.

The ear-bending racket is another story, but you could never accuse these things of slow response. On approach, the engines are turning at 100% rpm anyway!

On the J41 they delivered almost instantaneous response to power lever movements. Ten times better than the engines fitted to ATPs or -8s for instance.

Still, no point sueing the pilots- even though it was clearly their fault the thing came to greif- as they're dead.

Their attempt to Sue Garrett will come to precisely nothing. As it should.
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Old 3rd Feb 2013, 11:59   #1174 (permalink)
 
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From the lawsuit:
Quote:
He was referring to an interim report by the Air Accident Investigation Unit (AAIU) which was published last February and identified a problem with the sensor on the right-side engine of the plane.
The report found that there was a flaw with the fuel transmission to this right-hand side engine which could have been giving more power than the left-hand side engine. This means there was a potential for the plane to be unbalanced as it landed.
The crew made three attempts at landing. I am no expert but I would have thought that they would have detected this imbalance on the first attempt and compensated accordingly. This suit IMHO is a blatant attempt at screwing money out of companies who can appear to afford it. Like you, AK, I hope it comes to nought.
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Old 4th Feb 2013, 17:03   #1175 (permalink)
 
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Should sue the aviation authorities who apparently condone questionably legal operations.

Last edited by blind pew; 4th Feb 2013 at 17:06.
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Old 4th Feb 2013, 18:19   #1176 (permalink)
 
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To true Atom for all there issues manging the things on start up they really are a cracking engine. Use 20% less fuel than the free turbines as well.

There is always a slight inbalance but then again there isn't an airframe after 15 years old that flys straight either.

If you gave a crew a straight airframe and engines perfectly in balance and all the other good stuff the crew would more than likely think there was some thing wrong with it.
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Old 7th Feb 2013, 14:58   #1177 (permalink)
 
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The Second Report has just been published today:
Fairchild SA 227-BC Metro III, EC-ITP, Cork Airport

It's basically a summary, but at least they are looking into "deeper systemic issues"
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Old 7th Feb 2013, 16:36   #1178 (permalink)
 
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It's actually the second interim statement and the third publication. It is, as you say a summary and it consists of three pages which basically state that the investigation is ongoing and has required further research into the organisations involved together with difficult and time-consuming translations of technical data from Spanish to English.
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Old 5th Mar 2013, 07:53   #1179 (permalink)
 
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Does anyone have any predictions on when, or whether we are ever likely to see a final report on the Meroliner crash at Cork Airport? I know a report was published last month, but after more than 2 years it revealed little more than the initial report. The many regulatory authorities involved must be very relieved that a legal case has been initiated which has taken the focus off their lamentable failures in the oversight of the ad-hoc company involved.
I wonder if EASA (and one of its regional offices, the CAA), for all its edicts, regulations, and unfathomable, mind-numbing literature will re-appear in the lawyers' sights once the "difficult process of translation of documents" is complete.
I am only bringing this up as I believe this case brings up so many issues. Such as the exploitation of pilots desperate to pursue aviation as a career. The well and truly elastic requirements for adequate, and well trained maintenance staff to be available, and by that I mean the engineer not having to take a boat, plane, fast train, or space shuttle to sign off the tech log at the end of the flying day. And, generally, the whole illusion that there is a functioning airline when it is just a collection of different elements which exploits the regulating authorities' own regulations without censure.
As has been proved many times before, the lawyers will get to the truth in the end, even if there are a few diversions along the way, so delaying the report will only cause more pain for everyone involved.

Last edited by kapton; 5th Mar 2013 at 07:55. Reason: mistake
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Old 5th Mar 2013, 08:21   #1180 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I mean the engineer not having to take a boat, plane, fast train, or space shuttle to sign off the tech log at the end of the flying day
Why would you need an engineer to sign off the techlog at the end of the day?.

On these type of aircraft its normal for the Captain to sign it in and the aircraft to get a 10 day check by the Engineer. For a while I was authed to do the 10 day checks and carried a calibrated pressure gauge for the tyres.

By whats been reported so far there wasn't anything unusual about the aircraft from a tech point of view.

I suspect the report will be out before the summer or in September.
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