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Old 7th Feb 2013, 14:58   #1161 (permalink)
 
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The Second Report has just been published today:
Fairchild SA 227-BC Metro III, EC-ITP, Cork Airport

It's basically a summary, but at least they are looking into "deeper systemic issues"
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Old 7th Feb 2013, 16:36   #1162 (permalink)
 
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It's actually the second interim statement and the third publication. It is, as you say a summary and it consists of three pages which basically state that the investigation is ongoing and has required further research into the organisations involved together with difficult and time-consuming translations of technical data from Spanish to English.
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Old 5th Mar 2013, 07:53   #1163 (permalink)
 
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Does anyone have any predictions on when, or whether we are ever likely to see a final report on the Meroliner crash at Cork Airport? I know a report was published last month, but after more than 2 years it revealed little more than the initial report. The many regulatory authorities involved must be very relieved that a legal case has been initiated which has taken the focus off their lamentable failures in the oversight of the ad-hoc company involved.
I wonder if EASA (and one of its regional offices, the CAA), for all its edicts, regulations, and unfathomable, mind-numbing literature will re-appear in the lawyers' sights once the "difficult process of translation of documents" is complete.
I am only bringing this up as I believe this case brings up so many issues. Such as the exploitation of pilots desperate to pursue aviation as a career. The well and truly elastic requirements for adequate, and well trained maintenance staff to be available, and by that I mean the engineer not having to take a boat, plane, fast train, or space shuttle to sign off the tech log at the end of the flying day. And, generally, the whole illusion that there is a functioning airline when it is just a collection of different elements which exploits the regulating authorities' own regulations without censure.
As has been proved many times before, the lawyers will get to the truth in the end, even if there are a few diversions along the way, so delaying the report will only cause more pain for everyone involved.

Last edited by kapton; 5th Mar 2013 at 07:55. Reason: mistake
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Old 5th Mar 2013, 08:21   #1164 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I mean the engineer not having to take a boat, plane, fast train, or space shuttle to sign off the tech log at the end of the flying day
Why would you need an engineer to sign off the techlog at the end of the day?.

On these type of aircraft its normal for the Captain to sign it in and the aircraft to get a 10 day check by the Engineer. For a while I was authed to do the 10 day checks and carried a calibrated pressure gauge for the tyres.

By whats been reported so far there wasn't anything unusual about the aircraft from a tech point of view.

I suspect the report will be out before the summer or in September.
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Old 5th Mar 2013, 09:12   #1165 (permalink)
 
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Mad Jock

I never said there were any technical issues. I said the crash will reveal other issues. The actual incident has been discussed by well-informed, professional people on this forum. Yes, the prime cause wil probably be the operation and handling of the aircraft, but there is also an underlying philosophy, and culture in organisations which find themselves involved in incidents such as happened at Cork.
I am sure you have a deft, feline touch with a tyre pressure gauge, and use your krytonite vision to detect defective strobe lights. I am awed by your devotion to completing the tech log at the end of the day before resting your head on it for the night. Now go and look in the mirror and listen to your reflection tell you how good you are.
Now, back to Cork. I just hope the report, while dealing with the objective causes of this crash, gives the regulatory authorities something to think about before allowing organisations such as involved in this accident to operate.
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Old 5th Mar 2013, 09:29   #1166 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kapton
Does anyone have any predictions on when, or whether we are ever likely to see a final report on the Meroliner crash at Cork Airport?
The regulation that covers accident investigation says 'The safety investigation authority shall make public the final report in the shortest possible time and if possible within 12 months of the date of the accident. If the final report cannot be made public within 12 months, the safety investigation authority shall release an interim statement at least at each anniversary of the accident, detailing the progress of the investigation and any safety issues raised'.

Things seem to be progressing according to the rules so it is reasonable to expect that a final report will be published when the investigation is complete. When that will be is down to the people doing the investigation.

The reason that it is taking so long may well be because, as you say '...I believe this case brings up so many issues'. Although you may be right that lawyers will get to the truth in the end, it is unfortunate that in the courts the truth is so often twisted to suit the needs of the lawyers' case at the time - this is not a criticism, that's what they are paid for. What we will hopefully get from the AAIU, and all of the indications so far are that this is where they are headed, is an analysis of the accident based on fact with the intention of preventing future aviation accidents and serious incidents rather than apportioning blame or liability.

What will be interesting when the report is published is how EASA and the rule framework that it has developed will be handled. It is arguable that comprehensive and effective oversight of virtual airlines and their operations has become far more difficult as a result of the Europe-wide regulations 'sponsored' by EASA and the principle of mutual recognition that is embedded within the rules. And, of course, EASA is an appointed observer to the investigation.
 
Old 5th Mar 2013, 09:33   #1167 (permalink)
 
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You have obviously never seen a 10 day checklist for a directshaft TP aircraft.

Or have a clue what the line engineers check and what they need a part 145 hanger for.

Or for that matter know what the training is for getting the QA approval for doing such a check. I suspect I also used to pick up more faults than the Engineers did but thats also because I used to fly the sod for 6 sectors a day.

That fact I was also a Pro Engineer and a plant fitter in a previous life might also have something to do with it. There are pilots who its best not to allow near an aircraft with anything sharper than a biro and can't change the spark plugs on a car, a bit like avionics engineers.
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Old 5th Mar 2013, 15:27   #1168 (permalink)
 
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AVIATION DANGERS

The most dangerous thing in aviation is an engineer with a pen

The second most dangerous thing is a pilot with a screwdriver
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Old 5th Mar 2013, 15:41   #1169 (permalink)
 
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That made me smile Tinribs.

Unfortunatley any pilot flying these old heaps of turboprops will require a screwdriver everyday for oil level inspection, oil filter bypass button inspection hydralic level inspection. Even if they don't actually look at whats inside the panels they still need to open the panels for the "security" check.
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Old 15th Mar 2013, 19:16   #1170 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
the lawyers will get to the truth in the end
Well, you have a lot more faith than I, bearing in mind that I do live here (Spain) and know something about false trails, lost evidence, hidden papers, and the rest. Still, as we say here 'Vamos a ver'.
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Old 17th Mar 2013, 20:28   #1171 (permalink)
 
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The words lawyers and truth don't belong in the same paragraph. And the compo scum have got their teeth into the torque imbalance. But there's only one problem with this: Every pilot should be capable of dealing with an engine failure on a go-around (or an over-torque). It won't necessarily be tidy, but it should be safe. So dealing with differing engine accelerations and torque values should be quite straight forward, me thinks!
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Old 17th Mar 2013, 21:47   #1172 (permalink)
 
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Quite - a point I made in post 1171.
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Old 17th Mar 2013, 21:49   #1173 (permalink)
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Quote:
The most dangerous thing in aviation is an engineer with a pen

The second most dangerous thing is a pilot with a screwdriver

Or indeed, as Swiss Army knife.
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Old 17th Mar 2013, 21:58   #1174 (permalink)
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Quote:
The most dangerous thing in aviation is an engineer with a pen

The second most dangerous thing is a pilot with a screwdriver

Or indeed, as Swiss Army knife.

Sarcasm aside, I can't resist posting this link. I could not have got into that stub-wing without me knife.

We'd been AOG on that aircraft for 15 hours.



Hot flight
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Old 1st Sep 2013, 17:26   #1175 (permalink)
 
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Documentary

An extraordinary documentary on the Manx2 crash just broadcast on TG4, the Irish language station here in Ireland. Not sensational, just telling the stories, including one of a pilot who, for his family, became the seventh victim of this crash.
Simply told and very moving. Whatever the reasons behind the crash, the programme reminded me of the human involvement.
And the same goes for all such occurences.
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Old 1st Sep 2013, 19:20   #1176 (permalink)
 
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Cork crash

Reminiscent of the 1988 C90 G-BNAT crash at EGNX caused by a faulty R/E compressor bleed valve which led to assymetric go around . AAIB report no.9/88 for those interested. Wx was also marginal at the time of this accident. Lots of similarities between this and the current I`d say.
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Old 2nd Sep 2013, 16:42   #1177 (permalink)
 
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Not so sure. This was a perfectly serviceable aircraft
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Old 2nd Sep 2013, 18:32   #1178 (permalink)
 
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Cork crash

Elephant & Castle how can you be so sure. So they thought was the C90, until of course that fateful moment when one donk decided it was time to quit. Or perhaps the ladies of fate got fed up with crochet and picked up a piece of Swiss cheese instead.
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Old 2nd Sep 2013, 19:00   #1179 (permalink)
 
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Since I was not there I am not "sure" of anything at all. However the facts that have been presented so far are two approaches below minimums followed by a fatal third. The aircraft appears to have been serviceable until impact. Sadly the lessons to learn here seem to point on the Human Factors direction.

If you have factual information to the contrary please share it.

Even if an engine failed (of which there is no evidence) it should have been manageable. An engine failure at minimums is a handful, at 30 feet in IMC a complete disaster. Surely the point here is that busting the minima repeatedly they did stack the odds against themselves should anything at all go wrong.
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Old 3rd Sep 2013, 18:15   #1180 (permalink)
 
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CORK CRASH

In response to Elephant & Castle`s invitation to share factual information I suggest reference to Ulster Herald`s report of 12 February 2013, at the following web link.

Report into Cork plane crash delayed by Spanish documents

In particular to the following extract therefrom:

The investigation unit last year revealed problems with engine number two of the twin turboprop Fairchild Metroliner which could have caused an uneven thrust from the wings.

I trust this may sufficent to show that my comments were not mere speculation.
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