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Old 22nd May 2017, 22:06   #1701 (permalink)
 
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Why they cruised at 200ft for such an extended period of time will probably remain a mystery, though.
No mystery. If the cloud base was around 300'.
One scenario is that they "let down" over the ocean. Got clear of cloud. Then followed a route (clear of cloud, but in the dark?) at a height they thought they were safe at.

Any mystery in my mind is why they thought the route was safe at 200'.
The tragedy in my mind is all the safety back stops not working, especially EGWPS.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 22:18   #1702 (permalink)
 
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I may have missed it in the previous pages but has there been any info on the vertical path of this procedure?
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Old 23rd May 2017, 07:39   #1703 (permalink)
 
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Jeepys - We are talking SAR here and there are different rules for them that take into account their mission, the training and the equipment on board. Read the previous posts and you will get the picture.

G
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Old 23rd May 2017, 08:19   #1704 (permalink)
 
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"Dive and drive" is the term you may be looking for.

It has its uses but........................
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Old 23rd May 2017, 09:25   #1705 (permalink)
 
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Geoffrey,

Well aware of that but I thought they were following a company let down route?
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Old 23rd May 2017, 11:32   #1706 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by jeepys View Post
Geoffrey,

Well aware of that but I thought they were following a company let down route?
Jeepsys - this has all been discussed in depth in previous pages if you care to look. It just needs a bit of effort but to help you - the AAIU Preliminary Report on this accident is referenced in post 840 on page 42 of this thread. On page 17 of the report, para 3.5.8, the Operator's Route Guide is displayed. Read the report and this thread from thereon in and your queries will be answered.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 11:39   #1707 (permalink)
 
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Democritus,
Seen that thanks but where is page two of the route guide giving other info?
Is there info on that page that gives advisory heights etc?
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Old 23rd May 2017, 12:34   #1708 (permalink)
 
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For the jeep seats:
As stated further up this page. They "let down" over the sea. A common, and safe practice.
They were using a company VFR route guide. To get to the refueling destination.
Not a "let down route". No vertical guidance. Spot heights were included on the second page.

This is only my understanding from reading the report, with both eyes open, some experience, and a healthy interest.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 12:46   #1709 (permalink)
 
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Yes so the second page is pretty important for any height/vertical guidance or spot heights
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Old 23rd May 2017, 18:02   #1710 (permalink)
 
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Why fly around with the gear down over the sea,with at least 10+ miles to land...?
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Old 23rd May 2017, 18:47   #1711 (permalink)
 
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Why fly around with the gear down over the sea,with at least 10+ miles to land...?
Nice to get the 'before landing checks' done before decending so low in bad weather, also depending on what was going on in their mental model they may have been planning on coming in slower and lower, so prevents the landing gear warning
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Old 25th May 2017, 18:56   #1712 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by jeepys View Post
Yes so the second page is pretty important for any height/vertical guidance or spot heights
I posted earlier, Irish Aviation Authority VFR maps use a red circle as the symbol for a lighthouse​. You can see Black Rock and Blacksod lighthouses and their heights marked on the company map (282 and 43)
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Old 25th May 2017, 21:20   #1713 (permalink)
 
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I posted earlier, Irish Aviation Authority VFR maps use a red circle as the symbol for a lighthouse​.
Ah yes, that well-known international symbol for a lighthouse.................not!
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Old 25th May 2017, 23:33   #1714 (permalink)
 
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Black dot for light house!

I just pulled out my Dads old ICAO 1:500 000 VFR chart to check how a lighthouse is marked.:
It is with a black dot, no elevation or height and Feiestein Light ( WestSW of SVG for example)
And in the margin a fine drawing of the lighthouse with 112 on top of it.

Probably a fine thing for Mr VFR on one of his trips to Stavanger for coffee and waffels, but rather crude even if at scale 1:250 000 for any low level night stuff.
Anyway, if the chart had used the ICAO Annex 4 black dot with Blackrock Light printed next to it, we would perhaps not have had this exchange.
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Old 12th Jun 2017, 01:37   #1715 (permalink)
ZFD


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Pass the parcel

State safety plan 2017;

"In common with the practice in many States, an Irish hel- icopter operator may be involved in both civil aviation activities (eg CAT/HEMS) and state functions (eg SAR). Whereas the IAA has safety oversight of the civil aviation operations, the oversight of state functions rests with the Department of Transport Tourism and Sport. "


https://www.iaa.ie/docs/default-source/default-document-library/iaa-state-safety-report-2017-2020.pdf?sfvrsn=0

This is interesting, especially considering the following;

"The IAA maintains an Aviation Rescue Co-ordination Centre (ARCC) at Shannon Airport and an Aviation Rescue Sub-Centre (ARSC) at Dublin Airport. The Safety Regulation Division of the IAA is the body responsible for the regulation and oversight of aircraft operations, including aeronautical Search and Rescue, within the State."

http://www.dttas.ie/sites/default/files/publications/maritime/english/irish-national-maritime-search-and-rescue-sar-framework/sar-framework.pdf

So, when the music stops, who is left holding the parcel, unfortunately it is the crew of R116 and their colleagues who are and have to deal with a politically and commercially driven environment.

My highest respect to all working in this vacuum.
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Old 18th Jun 2017, 20:52   #1716 (permalink)
 
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All gone very quiet - any update on the two missing crew?
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Old 13th Jul 2017, 21:59   #1717 (permalink)
 
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RTÉ's flag ship current affairs programme "Prime Time" has tonight (13th July) carried a report claiming that Sligo based SAR pilots had back in 2013 informed CHC of issues with the information regarding Blackrock Island in the oboard maps.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017...ckrock-island/

JAS
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Old 13th Jul 2017, 22:24   #1718 (permalink)
 
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The TV report is here: https://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/pr...3379/10750839/
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Old 14th Jul 2017, 00:56   #1719 (permalink)
 
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hang on.....

Doesn't CHC hold an annual 'global' safety seminar, accompanied with a lot of PR bolleux?
They would have surely practiced what they preached and ensured feedback/compliance/ closing the loop.........and would have ran that particular issue up the flag pole to signal action and further ownership of the challenge before going forward......

I think it's about time CHC cease the annual farce of their safety seminar until they actually 'practice what they preach'.......
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Old 14th Jul 2017, 03:07   #1720 (permalink)
 
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Lots of shoulder shrugging going on....as forecast.
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