From ground to CFI: Balancing variables to choose the best path
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From ground to CFI: Balancing variables to choose the best path
Hello everyone,
This site is such an amazing resource and has helped me wrap my head around what to expect down the line career-wise as a helicopter pilot.
I've read many of the previous posts but I have some questions that I haven't been able to find answers to here or elsewhere online.
Last month I was sitting at the desk of my-dead-end-but-easy job and remembered I had a dream when I was 16 to become a pilot. I've done a lot of things since then, but now, at 29, I figure I can still jump on board (pun intended).
I think I have the right temperament for the job. I'm happy to live/work anywhere, and I'd welcome the adventure of flying in remote regions. Until I'm old, I figure that's part of the reason people go into this kind of work! It's one of my reasons, at least.
A lot of people seem to complain about CFI work up to those first thousand hours, but I see it as something pretty damn useful. Seriously learning how these machines work, and being able to teach it to other people, while gaining experience (and almost no pay!) doesn't seem like the worst deal in the world, so I'm happy with that path.
My long term goals are to fly Bell 412 or 212 or any variant thereof for EMS or Police. I'm sure that's probably everyone's dream, and if it changes along the way I can handle that, but I read a post here that said to go for your dreams and make them happen! I mean, that's why I'm posting here after all.
However, please let me explain my current situation. I'd welcome sincere feedback and suggestions about how best to proceed. Please let's not have this thread devolve into an attack on the state of the industry or gloom and doom reports. Cautionary cynicism is welcome, but no flame wars, please.
My situation:
That being said, these are the various options I've considered and I'm not sure which is advisable:
Option One
I can save about $1500/month if I take on a second job here. In 3.5 years that will give me about $60,000. With this option I would go to a flight school in or around the Seattle area because the rates there seem to be best. As per this websites recommendation, America is the cheapest country to get hours and training.
I understand that is a low estimate required to go all the way through to CFI, but I figure I have some kind of a head on my shoulders and, if I'm not doing terribly well after a few hours I can find the extra money if necessary.
Option Two
However, I also have the option of doing lessons out here in Japan with a company called Alpha Aviation. The price per hour is a little more expensive ($300/hour in an R22) but, has the advantage of me starting quite soon instead of waiting three years. For $1200 per month I can fly one hour per week. I was thinking of supplementing this with a good home simulator setup . This should give me lots of time to digest information, and means that I'll save about time compared to option one. I'm not the oldest person to start this career but I'm also not the youngest, and that extra time is valuable.
I'm not sure if training in Japan will give me an advantage or not, but, in my experience everything here is exceptionally meticulous. The standards are high, to say the least.
Option Three
My EU passport doesn't seem to offer any benefits considering the costs there are pretty high. I'm too old for any Air Force, but if anyone knows otherwise I'd love to hear your suggestions.
So, if Option One and Two don't have any major differences, obviously I'd prefer going with the second one because it means I can start flying sooner. I understand that skills degrade over time, but is one week really that long between flying?
Anything else I may have missed or should consider, please feel free to include. Thank you for taking the time to read this, I hope you can see why I felt the need to post as I have a number of really-specific considerations that I haven't found elsewhere.
This site is such an amazing resource and has helped me wrap my head around what to expect down the line career-wise as a helicopter pilot.
I've read many of the previous posts but I have some questions that I haven't been able to find answers to here or elsewhere online.
Last month I was sitting at the desk of my-dead-end-but-easy job and remembered I had a dream when I was 16 to become a pilot. I've done a lot of things since then, but now, at 29, I figure I can still jump on board (pun intended).
I think I have the right temperament for the job. I'm happy to live/work anywhere, and I'd welcome the adventure of flying in remote regions. Until I'm old, I figure that's part of the reason people go into this kind of work! It's one of my reasons, at least.A lot of people seem to complain about CFI work up to those first thousand hours, but I see it as something pretty damn useful. Seriously learning how these machines work, and being able to teach it to other people, while gaining experience (and almost no pay!) doesn't seem like the worst deal in the world, so I'm happy with that path.
My long term goals are to fly Bell 412 or 212 or any variant thereof for EMS or Police. I'm sure that's probably everyone's dream, and if it changes along the way I can handle that, but I read a post here that said to go for your dreams and make them happen! I mean, that's why I'm posting here after all.
However, please let me explain my current situation. I'd welcome sincere feedback and suggestions about how best to proceed. Please let's not have this thread devolve into an attack on the state of the industry or gloom and doom reports. Cautionary cynicism is welcome, but no flame wars, please.
My situation:
- 29, Healthy, 20/20 vision, Average weight etc.,
- Currently living and working in Yokohama, Japan
- European citizenship and access to live/attend flight school in Seattle
- From Cape Town, South Africa
- No flight experience, but I look up every time I hear an aircraft
That being said, these are the various options I've considered and I'm not sure which is advisable:
Option One
I can save about $1500/month if I take on a second job here. In 3.5 years that will give me about $60,000. With this option I would go to a flight school in or around the Seattle area because the rates there seem to be best. As per this websites recommendation, America is the cheapest country to get hours and training.
I understand that is a low estimate required to go all the way through to CFI, but I figure I have some kind of a head on my shoulders and, if I'm not doing terribly well after a few hours I can find the extra money if necessary.
Option Two
However, I also have the option of doing lessons out here in Japan with a company called Alpha Aviation. The price per hour is a little more expensive ($300/hour in an R22) but, has the advantage of me starting quite soon instead of waiting three years. For $1200 per month I can fly one hour per week. I was thinking of supplementing this with a good home simulator setup . This should give me lots of time to digest information, and means that I'll save about time compared to option one. I'm not the oldest person to start this career but I'm also not the youngest, and that extra time is valuable.
I'm not sure if training in Japan will give me an advantage or not, but, in my experience everything here is exceptionally meticulous. The standards are high, to say the least.
Option Three
My EU passport doesn't seem to offer any benefits considering the costs there are pretty high. I'm too old for any Air Force, but if anyone knows otherwise I'd love to hear your suggestions.
So, if Option One and Two don't have any major differences, obviously I'd prefer going with the second one because it means I can start flying sooner. I understand that skills degrade over time, but is one week really that long between flying?
Anything else I may have missed or should consider, please feel free to include. Thank you for taking the time to read this, I hope you can see why I felt the need to post as I have a number of really-specific considerations that I haven't found elsewhere.
Hi moshi,
Option Two sure sounds interesting but there are quite a few questions arising from that.
First of all, how is your Japanese? Would you have to take the exams in Japanese? Would you be able to radio in English, even at small airfields?
Then the question is how the whole industry is set up over there. Is the CFI route practical and possible? Many countries use only experienced pilots as instructors. What are typical ways to land the first job in Japan? Most importantly, how are the chances, what condition is the industry in? You might want to start digging into Japanese aviation forums. Also try to get to know people from the industry and start making connections.
You need to think about where you want to work. A Japanese license will not get you far in the world. You would probably need to convert to FAA or EASA if you want to work somewhere else. Remember, if you want to go with the F1 visa (not possible in Seattle AFAIK) you cannot be above a certain amount of hours, I think it is about 80.
Another option would be to get you private license in Japan, save some more money and then continue on abroad. Might be the best of both worlds.
Edit: I think an average of one hour per week is not too bad. There will be weeks where you need more and weeks where you focus on studying. Also working two jobs probably won't leave you with many windows for flyable weather anyways.
Option Two sure sounds interesting but there are quite a few questions arising from that.
First of all, how is your Japanese? Would you have to take the exams in Japanese? Would you be able to radio in English, even at small airfields?
Then the question is how the whole industry is set up over there. Is the CFI route practical and possible? Many countries use only experienced pilots as instructors. What are typical ways to land the first job in Japan? Most importantly, how are the chances, what condition is the industry in? You might want to start digging into Japanese aviation forums. Also try to get to know people from the industry and start making connections.
You need to think about where you want to work. A Japanese license will not get you far in the world. You would probably need to convert to FAA or EASA if you want to work somewhere else. Remember, if you want to go with the F1 visa (not possible in Seattle AFAIK) you cannot be above a certain amount of hours, I think it is about 80.
Another option would be to get you private license in Japan, save some more money and then continue on abroad. Might be the best of both worlds.
Edit: I think an average of one hour per week is not too bad. There will be weeks where you need more and weeks where you focus on studying. Also working two jobs probably won't leave you with many windows for flyable weather anyways.
Last edited by whoknows idont; 16th Oct 2016 at 07:08.
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Thanks whoknows,
That isn't a bad idea at all. Common sense and the best of both worlds, mitigates risk on both sides, and gives me the option to continue on in the USA because I should be able to get PPL in under 80 hours.
That will also get me in the air and I can see if I really do enjoy it without saving for three years (not that that would be a bad thing, excess money is never a problem!)
Japanese people love to make things complicated! And expensive! But, you get what you pay for, sometimes. Also, while some parts of Japan are hugely accommodating, others can be very closed to foreigners. So, I'm not sure what the deal is in the long term with regards to careers or instruction. My Japanese is barely passable and not good enough to be instructed in, but I could possibly meet the requirements to operate a radio (Based on this guide: http://www.aopa.jp/Newenglish/Neweng...20rev%202.html)
The next step is to visit the school and see what they offer and make a map to the PPL. This will probably in the new year as I finish up this tax year.
Thanks again!
That isn't a bad idea at all. Common sense and the best of both worlds, mitigates risk on both sides, and gives me the option to continue on in the USA because I should be able to get PPL in under 80 hours.
That will also get me in the air and I can see if I really do enjoy it without saving for three years (not that that would be a bad thing, excess money is never a problem!)
Japanese people love to make things complicated! And expensive! But, you get what you pay for, sometimes. Also, while some parts of Japan are hugely accommodating, others can be very closed to foreigners. So, I'm not sure what the deal is in the long term with regards to careers or instruction. My Japanese is barely passable and not good enough to be instructed in, but I could possibly meet the requirements to operate a radio (Based on this guide: http://www.aopa.jp/Newenglish/Neweng...20rev%202.html)
The next step is to visit the school and see what they offer and make a map to the PPL. This will probably in the new year as I finish up this tax year.
Thanks again!
Having one student H pilot near, can agree on the way through
slow work on PPL H in Japan, than CPL under FAA or EASA.
But R22 ?! not mine cup of tea, my student is on Cabri G2
slow work on PPL H in Japan, than CPL under FAA or EASA.
But R22 ?! not mine cup of tea, my student is on Cabri G2
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(American car interiors are always lacking compared to their European counterparts, seems the same with helicopters) But isn't it better to learn the ropes on something difficult?
I started out at 23, which even now only seems like yesterday. I didn't borrow any money to do my CPL-H training. I worked 2 jobs to pay for one flying lesson per week. The licence came, the first flying job came, many other jobs came over the subsequent years, and now I'm semi-retired. 7000 hours helicopter, 2000+ hours on B212/412. Careful what you wish for!
If I had my time again I'd do something different.
If I had my time again I'd do something different.
I would say, given the OP's objective of building hours through instructing, that he needs to train in whatever most flying schools are operating... or the potential employing flying school of choice is operating.
Difficulty not so relevant.
Difficulty not so relevant.
