Vuichard technique for settling with power?
Oh VF, I am so disappointed that you don't see the light. 
Admit your sins. Your meagre hills are nothing compared to the mighty Alps where the Great One had his revelation. You will from now on preach cross control or the Yeti will be lurking in the shadow one day and barf on your shoes.
Now let us pray ...
Admit your sins. Your meagre hills are nothing compared to the mighty Alps where the Great One had his revelation. You will from now on preach cross control or the Yeti will be lurking in the shadow one day and barf on your shoes.
Now let us pray ...
As requested, Rotorbee ...
Our Vouchard
who art in hover
Settling be thy bane
Thy cyclic come
Thy flight undone
Striking earth
Plunging down from the heavens
Give us this day a pedal slide
And forgive us our descent rates
As we forgive the CFI's who smote our pates
And lead us not unto the hillside
But deliver us from the vortex
Our Vouchard
who art in hover
Settling be thy bane
Thy cyclic come
Thy flight undone
Striking earth
Plunging down from the heavens
Give us this day a pedal slide
And forgive us our descent rates
As we forgive the CFI's who smote our pates
And lead us not unto the hillside
But deliver us from the vortex
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Awesome,
I'm flying an AS350 at the moment on forestry spray. Can really relate on what's going on. We're going max gross off the deck sometimes every ten minutes. Like tonight's session wind is calm but enough to be a tad downwind in the turns. Only way to spray the block due environmental. Can really feel the bump as you go through your vortices at the start of the line.
Another tool in the survival kit, especially tree tops heavy. The lack of height lost is very appealing.
I'm flying an AS350 at the moment on forestry spray. Can really relate on what's going on. We're going max gross off the deck sometimes every ten minutes. Like tonight's session wind is calm but enough to be a tad downwind in the turns. Only way to spray the block due environmental. Can really feel the bump as you go through your vortices at the start of the line.
Another tool in the survival kit, especially tree tops heavy. The lack of height lost is very appealing.
The Vulcans retirement kitty....please give generously
Nice video 
Happy Yappy stay Happy 
Undoubtedly the Grand Mashter Flash Vulcan technique will all save us one day from an early grave (NOT) as the far greater One; once said...'if it ain't broke don't fix it'
Moral of the story....if You find Yourself in VRS or IVRS then; leave power on or apply more to the red line, at the same time give a big pole forward & maintain some heading of sorts, until You fly out of it works every-time every bleedin' time
Moral of the story....if You find Yourself in VRS or IVRS then; leave power on or apply more to the red line, at the same time give a big pole forward & maintain some heading of sorts, until You fly out of it works every-time every bleedin' time
jellycopter - 100% agree - at best that was a quick recovery from IVRS, nowhere near full VRS.
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...but the thing is....in day to day ops how often do you encounter fully developed VRS?
In my experience, in the day to day ops, you notice immediately something is not right and you act.....this is mostly in the initial phase of VRS.
Now, the reaction on brain stem level is to dump collective, drop the nose and fly away.
I think it requires a lot of effort and training to make this technique your 'brain stem' response.....
I do think however that this might be a better approach to recover from it..
Let's see how the company training dept. feels about it...not in the sim but in the real thing..
In my experience, in the day to day ops, you notice immediately something is not right and you act.....this is mostly in the initial phase of VRS.
Now, the reaction on brain stem level is to dump collective, drop the nose and fly away.
I think it requires a lot of effort and training to make this technique your 'brain stem' response.....
I do think however that this might be a better approach to recover from it..
Let's see how the company training dept. feels about it...not in the sim but in the real thing..
...but the thing is....in day to day ops how often do you encounter fully developed VRS?
However, we don't actually see many VRS accidents, there are far more CFIT or power-settling accidents.
Whilst I agree that recovering from IVRS early is a good thing, it is far better to avoid it in the first place by planning and calculating performance before flight and avoiding the conditions where IVRS might occur - it's not difficult to do.
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Situational awareness is the key, and that usually comes with experience (as well as planning/briefing). I had a great example last week - I selected the AHRS to "DG" instead of "Mag" before startup to see how long it would take the student to see that something was not quite right.
45 mins later....(and with a big yellow HDG box on the PFD all this time), we were going for a hover OGE 1000' AGL as previously briefed. The wind indication on the PFD was now well and truly corrupted, showing about 180 deg out. But any check of groundspeed versus airspeed would show that we were 10-12 kts downwind (as per the weather forecast discussed at the brief).
Of course I could see all this unfolding, and I was ready to shove the nose forward (sorry M.Vuichard!) as soon as the vertical speed started to get out of the comfort zone. But, you would expect any competent and aware pilot to have noticed one of the many clues that were there all along, and we would never have got into the situation.
45 mins later....(and with a big yellow HDG box on the PFD all this time), we were going for a hover OGE 1000' AGL as previously briefed. The wind indication on the PFD was now well and truly corrupted, showing about 180 deg out. But any check of groundspeed versus airspeed would show that we were 10-12 kts downwind (as per the weather forecast discussed at the brief).
Of course I could see all this unfolding, and I was ready to shove the nose forward (sorry M.Vuichard!) as soon as the vertical speed started to get out of the comfort zone. But, you would expect any competent and aware pilot to have noticed one of the many clues that were there all along, and we would never have got into the situation.
Avoid imitations
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I'd say the demo is more like what I'd call "settling with power" (i.e. running out of enough power to arrest a vertical descent) and flying out of it by putting the main rotor laterally into clean air to the side, rather than by a transition straight ahead.
It certainly doesn't look anywhere near as exciting as the fully developed VRS that I experienced, which involved quite rapid pitching, rolling and yawing.
It certainly doesn't look anywhere near as exciting as the fully developed VRS that I experienced, which involved quite rapid pitching, rolling and yawing.
It certainly doesn't look anywhere near as exciting as the fully developed VRS that I experienced, which involved quite rapid pitching, rolling and yawing.
I am perhaps not the most experienced pilot on this forum but that video DOES not show VRS. As for pulling full power yes that will possibley get you out of IVRS but not fully developed. I know I have said this before but as a junior instructor one of my students had made 5 normal recoveries from IVRS using the normal stick the cylic forward technique. For someone unknown reason on the 6th go with a ROD of around 800ft a min with the cabin shaking, pitching and rolling the student pulled full power. Well fu.k me the result was what felt like an 80 degree nose up with the ac falling on its tail. ( so Mr Vulchard please explain that ) the vsi hit the stop at 3k a min. As for recovery I had the cylic on the forward stop, nothing happening, lever fully down and still falling on its tail. last resort was full pedal, then again wtf now facing 80 degrees pitch down and looking at the ground hurtling up. Slowly pulling power and rear cynic. I guess we missed the ground by about 200 ft. Not really sure how the rotor head stayed on the heli. So I was undoubtedly very close to full VRS when student pulled full power. This caused instantaneous fill VRS so I do not see how pulling full power and lateral cylic with pedals would work. But always happy to hear from those with more experience. Sorry that video shows nothing !
Hughes500 - and your story correlates exactly with Shy's and many others who have experience full VRS.
Mr 'magic-technique' Vuichard is clearly not the aviation God he professes to be - perhaps he is just someone looking to make a name for himself by selling snake-oil to the unsuspecting.
Mr 'magic-technique' Vuichard is clearly not the aviation God he professes to be - perhaps he is just someone looking to make a name for himself by selling snake-oil to the unsuspecting.
It's the roll assisted by the the tail rotor drift that helps you get into clean air.
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Well first off I salute the entrepreneurial spirit of the whole technique and its"commercial" application.
Secondly, making the analogy with blowing smoke rings with stage of vortex development. I think VT can blow smoke but I'm not sure the ring part makes it past the end of his nose. Whereas everyone else on the forum who has submitted a more visceral response has experienced being entrained in the smoke rings of Gandalf himself blown clear across the room or to the base of the mountain as it may actually be.
Not sure the technique is new at all within the vertical reference community, but understand the outcry at trivializing VRS for the less experienced who might be tempted to disobey tried and true descent rates, in favour of faster productivity (i.e "ego posturing") because the VRS dragon has been slayed by the "VT two step" into the 300 foot hole/gully.
I don't think the technique is without merit just that it is a last line of defence in steep and slow(big trees,confined gullies, downwind, longline) situations versus a healthy respect for traditional descent rates around 300 fpm.
Secondly, making the analogy with blowing smoke rings with stage of vortex development. I think VT can blow smoke but I'm not sure the ring part makes it past the end of his nose. Whereas everyone else on the forum who has submitted a more visceral response has experienced being entrained in the smoke rings of Gandalf himself blown clear across the room or to the base of the mountain as it may actually be.
Not sure the technique is new at all within the vertical reference community, but understand the outcry at trivializing VRS for the less experienced who might be tempted to disobey tried and true descent rates, in favour of faster productivity (i.e "ego posturing") because the VRS dragon has been slayed by the "VT two step" into the 300 foot hole/gully.
I don't think the technique is without merit just that it is a last line of defence in steep and slow(big trees,confined gullies, downwind, longline) situations versus a healthy respect for traditional descent rates around 300 fpm.
Last edited by Washeduprotorgypsy; 10th Sep 2017 at 21:06. Reason: I love auto correct
Washed
300fpm ? thats not even close to IVRS. can demonstrate 600 fpm vertical descent in a Hughes 300, pull power and she climbs back out of it
In the video I doubt the Lama has much more than 600 to 800 ft ROD
Anyone on the forum a test pilot at Boscombe Down with an ac with the kit on it to prove or disprove the theory. I don't see how you can get an ac in VRS ( say 1200 ft a min ROD plus ) can suddenly be stopped within 20 to 50 ft
300fpm ? thats not even close to IVRS. can demonstrate 600 fpm vertical descent in a Hughes 300, pull power and she climbs back out of it
In the video I doubt the Lama has much more than 600 to 800 ft ROD
Anyone on the forum a test pilot at Boscombe Down with an ac with the kit on it to prove or disprove the theory. I don't see how you can get an ac in VRS ( say 1200 ft a min ROD plus ) can suddenly be stopped within 20 to 50 ft
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