UK NPAS discussion: thread Mk 2
At Last!
The previous two posts demonstrate the power of telling people how good you are!
If I may be so bold, I would suggest that this highlights what went wrong with UK Police Air Support in the 21st Century. We stopped telling people just how good we were!
In the 80's and 90's we did, and our support was then at its highest, but we got complacent and Senior officers, Politicians, and the public have pretty short memories. So when in the naughties we stopped telling people that not only we were there, but that we were doing a bloody good job, people just forgot.
So when Chief Officers and the Home Office wanted to save money we were fair game. Sadly we have no one but ourselves to blame for the arrival of NPAS.
Now we must ensure that our name and reputation is again marketed properly.
Lets cut Ollie some slack, but at the same time start following these two examples and shout about our successes.
tigerfish
If I may be so bold, I would suggest that this highlights what went wrong with UK Police Air Support in the 21st Century. We stopped telling people just how good we were!
In the 80's and 90's we did, and our support was then at its highest, but we got complacent and Senior officers, Politicians, and the public have pretty short memories. So when in the naughties we stopped telling people that not only we were there, but that we were doing a bloody good job, people just forgot.
So when Chief Officers and the Home Office wanted to save money we were fair game. Sadly we have no one but ourselves to blame for the arrival of NPAS.
Now we must ensure that our name and reputation is again marketed properly.
Lets cut Ollie some slack, but at the same time start following these two examples and shout about our successes.
tigerfish
Well, maybe not everything that we do. 
House hiding a cannabis factory captured by helicopter police with thermal imaging camera | Mail Online
Note: this has absolutely nothing to do with NPAS.
House hiding a cannabis factory captured by helicopter police with thermal imaging camera | Mail Online
Note: this has absolutely nothing to do with NPAS.
Last edited by MightyGem; 30th Aug 2012 at 15:12.
The point that I was trying to make was that after the first ten years or so we took our eyes off the ball in respect of telling people what good value we were. So we shouldnt be surprised when we were hit pretty hard when savings had to be made.
Believe me, I was there! In the early stages our costs were never challenged because people had it thrust infront of them just how well we were doing and what good value we represented.
Then it all got a bit routine, and we stopped giving much thought to publicity. I recall when I was asked to get some photographs together for a big stand at a show. I phoned around all the units and the story tended to go like this. " Sorry we don't bother anymore, weve got some old ones with Squirrels and Bolkows but nothing recent"
I remember saying then to several UEO's "crumbs I hope the day dosen't come when we might have to remind people what we do"
No! I realise that the current publicity is nothing to do with NPAS, but if we had done more of it in the mid 2,000's, perhaps the fall would not have been so tough for some!
tigerfish
Believe me, I was there! In the early stages our costs were never challenged because people had it thrust infront of them just how well we were doing and what good value we represented.
Then it all got a bit routine, and we stopped giving much thought to publicity. I recall when I was asked to get some photographs together for a big stand at a show. I phoned around all the units and the story tended to go like this. " Sorry we don't bother anymore, weve got some old ones with Squirrels and Bolkows but nothing recent"
I remember saying then to several UEO's "crumbs I hope the day dosen't come when we might have to remind people what we do"
No! I realise that the current publicity is nothing to do with NPAS, but if we had done more of it in the mid 2,000's, perhaps the fall would not have been so tough for some!
tigerfish
Last edited by tigerfish; 30th Aug 2012 at 16:04.
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The Daily Mail article, covering the success of West Midlands Police ASU in detecting cannabis farms,
with quotes from someone not on the ASU, and the release of the sensational imagery,
are a perfect example (IMHPO) of how NOT to publicise the benefits and successes of an Air Support Unit.
I'd love to know what the thought process was in releasing all those details
of the camera capabilities, and the spectacular imagery.....
Perhaps it was "By providing this information we will re-assure our communities that the Police helicopter
is helping to serve them by fighting crime, and protecting them from harm."
In reality, what they have done is advertised to criminals currently engaged in,
or thinking about starting up in business illegally growing cannabis,
that they can be detected by the helicopter thermal imaging camera,
so they'd better find a way of doing so without being caught !
They could just have easily publicised the hard facts and figures,
which would be just as re-assuring to the community,
but of course that wouldn't have the sensationalism that the Press love,
and anyone being quoted wouldn't look quite as good
The story in the on-line Daily Mail article has plenty of follow up comments
giving advice on how to avoid detection, so all that will be achieved is that
fewer cannabis farms will be detected, fewer arrests will be made,
fewer cannabis plants will be recovered and destroyed, and
the ASU will ultimately become less effective in protecting
the community from this particular form of "harm."
What's this got to do with NPAS ? - I don't know -
Have they appointed a full time Press Officer yet ?
with quotes from someone not on the ASU, and the release of the sensational imagery,
are a perfect example (IMHPO) of how NOT to publicise the benefits and successes of an Air Support Unit.
I'd love to know what the thought process was in releasing all those details
of the camera capabilities, and the spectacular imagery.....
Perhaps it was "By providing this information we will re-assure our communities that the Police helicopter
is helping to serve them by fighting crime, and protecting them from harm."
In reality, what they have done is advertised to criminals currently engaged in,
or thinking about starting up in business illegally growing cannabis,
that they can be detected by the helicopter thermal imaging camera,
so they'd better find a way of doing so without being caught !
They could just have easily publicised the hard facts and figures,
which would be just as re-assuring to the community,
but of course that wouldn't have the sensationalism that the Press love,
and anyone being quoted wouldn't look quite as good
The story in the on-line Daily Mail article has plenty of follow up comments
giving advice on how to avoid detection, so all that will be achieved is that
fewer cannabis farms will be detected, fewer arrests will be made,
fewer cannabis plants will be recovered and destroyed, and
the ASU will ultimately become less effective in protecting
the community from this particular form of "harm."
What's this got to do with NPAS ? - I don't know -
Have they appointed a full time Press Officer yet ?
Last edited by Coconutty; 31st Aug 2012 at 09:23.
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Richie pao A good night for the force and
XA99. A source close to the Oscar1 that night said "how would we have got these results so quickly in a week or so when the aircraft is gone?"
XA99. A source close to the Oscar1 that night said "how would we have got these results so quickly in a week or so when the aircraft is gone?"
Last edited by pitofrost; 3rd Sep 2012 at 21:25.
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No need to make a song and dance about it ( 
),
but is there any more news since Sid's post on 25th August
about how many of our colleagues "in the South"
have actually AGREED to be Seconded / TUPE'd across to West Yorkshire ?
),but is there any more news since Sid's post on 25th August
about how many of our colleagues "in the South"
have actually AGREED to be Seconded / TUPE'd across to West Yorkshire ?
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I've obviously got far too much time on my hands, which makes we wonder about "things" ......
Like, It's all gone a bit quiet in here ?
I wonder if this has anything at all to do with Nick Herbert having been "shuffled" OUT of the post of Policing Minister ?
( He's the Gay MP that invoked the powers to impose NPAS on everyone regardless,
and who has resigned in protest at the move, to "focus on new ideas and protecting the countryside" ).
I wonder why Tony C got rid of him - perhaps to help deflect any incoming flak
when NPAS fails to achieve its aims ( whatever they are now ) ?
I wonder if any of the other recent stories about senior Officials have had any impact ( yet ) on NPAS ?
To name but a few in no particular order or relevance,
all sourced from a quick search on Google, and widely reported :
Chief Constable Bettison of West Yorkshire - due to host NPAS
under investigation after the recent Hillsborough enquiry disclosures.
Chief Constable Hyde ( Cumbria, and former ACC of West Midlands )
suspended after allegations of Serious Misconduct.
Chief Constable Price ( Cleveland ) suspended,
facing allegations of Gross Misconduct, and a Criminal investigation.
Deputy Chief Constable Bonnard ( Cleveland )
facing a disciplinary hearing for 8 counts of alleged Gross Misconduct.
Four assorted Chiefs and Deputies in the Midlands region facing allegations
relating to the witholding of material evidence in a murder trial :
Chief Constable Lee ( Northants ) and his Deputy Suzette Davenport ( previously ACC West Midlands ),
ACC Jane Sawyers ( Staffordshire ), and ACC Marcus Beale ( West Midlands, previously Staffordshire ).
Some of the above reported allegations concern the use of
undue influence to help a relative, or relative of a friend, to get a job in their Force.....
With all these allegations flying around is it any wonder that questions were asked
about the proposal to appoint Tom Winsor (who thinks the role of a Police Air Support Officer is a NON specialist role,
and is therefore worth £5500.00+ per annum less in salary than it is now ) to the position of HMIC ? !
I wonder what Damian Green - the NEW Policing Minister will bring to "the Party" ?
MORE civilianisation would be my bet
I also wonder why HE was appointed - surely Tony C isn't still angry with the Police
over the raid on his pal's house in 2008 - during an investigation into unauthorised disclosure
of confidential material from within the Home Office ? Is he ? ?
( In 2009 the CPS decided there was insufficient evidence for any charges to be made ).
I wonder what Damian Green's thoughts are about that ?
Hey ho - two weeks to go !
Maybe something interesting will happen before then that we can discuss
Like, It's all gone a bit quiet in here ?
I wonder if this has anything at all to do with Nick Herbert having been "shuffled" OUT of the post of Policing Minister ?
( He's the Gay MP that invoked the powers to impose NPAS on everyone regardless,
and who has resigned in protest at the move, to "focus on new ideas and protecting the countryside" ).
I wonder why Tony C got rid of him - perhaps to help deflect any incoming flak
when NPAS fails to achieve its aims ( whatever they are now ) ?
I wonder if any of the other recent stories about senior Officials have had any impact ( yet ) on NPAS ?
To name but a few in no particular order or relevance,
all sourced from a quick search on Google, and widely reported :
Chief Constable Bettison of West Yorkshire - due to host NPAS
under investigation after the recent Hillsborough enquiry disclosures.
Chief Constable Hyde ( Cumbria, and former ACC of West Midlands )
suspended after allegations of Serious Misconduct.
Chief Constable Price ( Cleveland ) suspended,
facing allegations of Gross Misconduct, and a Criminal investigation.
Deputy Chief Constable Bonnard ( Cleveland )
facing a disciplinary hearing for 8 counts of alleged Gross Misconduct.
Four assorted Chiefs and Deputies in the Midlands region facing allegations
relating to the witholding of material evidence in a murder trial :
Chief Constable Lee ( Northants ) and his Deputy Suzette Davenport ( previously ACC West Midlands ),
ACC Jane Sawyers ( Staffordshire ), and ACC Marcus Beale ( West Midlands, previously Staffordshire ).
Some of the above reported allegations concern the use of
undue influence to help a relative, or relative of a friend, to get a job in their Force.....
With all these allegations flying around is it any wonder that questions were asked
about the proposal to appoint Tom Winsor (who thinks the role of a Police Air Support Officer is a NON specialist role,
and is therefore worth £5500.00+ per annum less in salary than it is now ) to the position of HMIC ? !
I wonder what Damian Green - the NEW Policing Minister will bring to "the Party" ?
MORE civilianisation would be my bet
I also wonder why HE was appointed - surely Tony C isn't still angry with the Police
over the raid on his pal's house in 2008 - during an investigation into unauthorised disclosure
of confidential material from within the Home Office ? Is he ? ?
( In 2009 the CPS decided there was insufficient evidence for any charges to be made ).
I wonder what Damian Green's thoughts are about that ?
Hey ho - two weeks to go !
Maybe something interesting will happen before then that we can discuss
Last edited by Coconutty; 16th Sep 2012 at 17:03. Reason: Correcting typo's
Well its hardly earth shattering but this very week the Avon & Somerset Police Authority refused to sign on the dotted line for NPAS after allegedly being asked to pay for 700 flight hours and only getting 560 hours.
What is not clear is whether the aircraft is to fly 560pa or the actual flight hours are further enhanced from contributions from Gloucestershire and [eventually] Wiltshire.
Naturally the local pres story tells the Bristol angle rather than the whole story.
What is not clear is whether the aircraft is to fly 560pa or the actual flight hours are further enhanced from contributions from Gloucestershire and [eventually] Wiltshire.
Naturally the local pres story tells the Bristol angle rather than the whole story.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Wow, how brave of them!
With just over a month left in existence, perhaps the Avon & Somerset Police Authority should have shown their teeth a little earlier!
Avon and Somerset Police and Crime Commissioner election | Bristol City Council
With just over a month left in existence, perhaps the Avon & Somerset Police Authority should have shown their teeth a little earlier!
Avon and Somerset Police and Crime Commissioner election | Bristol City Council
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NOT signing up to npas isnt an option..??
This is where south yorks were in April i believe. As i recall the chair of the police authority said "well we have a gun to our heads, so we are forced to go ahead"
The government have mandated all forces to sign up, even if it means spending more money on a worse service.. which again is the SYP model. Having spoke to one or two of them during the year, they're going to be spending more money with NPAS than it cost to run their own unit, but Nick Herbert issued the order.
im pretty sure Avon & Somerset are going to be put in their place by Mr Green..
Dont forget we're just "plebs"..!!
This is where south yorks were in April i believe. As i recall the chair of the police authority said "well we have a gun to our heads, so we are forced to go ahead"
The government have mandated all forces to sign up, even if it means spending more money on a worse service.. which again is the SYP model. Having spoke to one or two of them during the year, they're going to be spending more money with NPAS than it cost to run their own unit, but Nick Herbert issued the order.
im pretty sure Avon & Somerset are going to be put in their place by Mr Green..
Dont forget we're just "plebs"..!!
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Popular thinking amongst the coalface is, why not refuse to sign and let the government sign on their behalf this way it will be them with the egg on face and not Avon & Somerset.....
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good news for car thieves/burglars
having had sight this week of the npas operating procedures, all i can say is.. 
Any cops getting behind an SMV had better grit their teeth and cross their fingers because the required response time for pursuits is...........
60 mins.!!
As is most of the "reactive" work we do.. ie intruders on, thefts in progress, suspects fleeing etc etc
Only a VERY small amount of work will actually fall inside those magic 20min circle requirements.. The stats for npas will look awesome.
"99 percent of all incidents (which required a response) within 20 mins were attended within that time"
Any cops getting behind an SMV had better grit their teeth and cross their fingers because the required response time for pursuits is...........
60 mins.!!
As is most of the "reactive" work we do.. ie intruders on, thefts in progress, suspects fleeing etc etc
Only a VERY small amount of work will actually fall inside those magic 20min circle requirements.. The stats for npas will look awesome.
"99 percent of all incidents (which required a response) within 20 mins were attended within that time"
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Lies, damn lies and statistics
Now that last one isn't exactly true is it Morris?
That is a prime case of making it fit your own agenda. Yes the required response time is 60 minutes for pursuits, unless..............then it becomes 20 minutes.
Why don't you explain the priority rankings fully and let everyone make their own decisions, just a thought.
That is a prime case of making it fit your own agenda. Yes the required response time is 60 minutes for pursuits, unless..............then it becomes 20 minutes.
Why don't you explain the priority rankings fully and let everyone make their own decisions, just a thought.
Last edited by Wagging Finger; 27th Sep 2012 at 22:13.
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Haven't had the pleasure yet of viewing the new SOPs yet but all I can say is that of the many hundred of vehicle pursuits that I have heard on the police radios or been involved in, 95% (probably higher) are over within 10 minutes so it matters not if the response time is 60 minutes or 20 minutes.