UK NPAS discussion: thread Mk 2
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Have I missed something?
I was under the impression that the first region hasn't even come online, the thing hasn't even been born yet and the it is being pronounced dead in the water and a failure, thats a little bit cynical and presumptive. IMHO.
Stands back and waits for explosion................
I see no point in going over old ground once again, but tigerfish was right ( and it cost him his job ) - NPAS has been a disaster from day 1.
What could have been a great tool for increasing cover and efficiency, was instead used solely as a weapon to slash costs and in the process ruin what had been built into a world beating service.
Administered and driven by a group of senior officers and politicians who knew nothing about Police Air Support other than cost, it was always bound to fail.
So now it would seem that we have bare rump of a service that will cost forces just as much as it did before, but actually deliver far far less! It beggars belief! In other countries those responsible would be disgraced or imprisoned, but here I expect they will get the QPM or promotion
What could have been a great tool for increasing cover and efficiency, was instead used solely as a weapon to slash costs and in the process ruin what had been built into a world beating service.
Administered and driven by a group of senior officers and politicians who knew nothing about Police Air Support other than cost, it was always bound to fail.
So now it would seem that we have bare rump of a service that will cost forces just as much as it did before, but actually deliver far far less! It beggars belief! In other countries those responsible would be disgraced or imprisoned, but here I expect they will get the QPM or promotion
Stands back and waits for explosion................
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
With everyone still being 'in Principle', has anyone consulted Bobby Ewing yet?
New series of Dallas begins today
New series of Dallas begins today
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Whitehead 06
Taking an objective view and looking purely at facts and not speculation and being an absolute pedant.
It's not even off the ground yet, any new organisation has set up costs. That question can only be answered once it has been fully up and running for a reasonable time, say a year. The last entrants to NPAS are in April 2015 so the earliest anyone could expect an answer to this question would be April 2015.
This matter is very subjective. On one hand someone could say 'yes, more people will have access to a 24hr service' on the other hand one could say 'no, there are less aircraft/bases'. That is the beauty of informed debate against rampant speculation.
Again, a subjective response is available.
Occasionally this site defends into 'who shouts loudest/most is correct, if most people are true to them selves they will admit that the above answers are a true reflection of the current situation.
The FACTS on the matter are;
Sadly there seems to be an entrenched attitude by some on this site that NPAS cannot/will not work because they say so. I have only one question to those in such a position.
Have you attempted to become engaged in the NPAS process in a positive way?
Taking an objective view and looking purely at facts and not speculation and being an absolute pedant.
(1) Has it saved the huge amounts that were promised?
(2) Is it really capable of delivering an improved service as it promised?
(3) Is it really the huge improvement in value for money that was promised?
Occasionally this site defends into 'who shouts loudest/most is correct, if most people are true to them selves they will admit that the above answers are a true reflection of the current situation.
The FACTS on the matter are;
- The country is in a poor state financially (regardless of who you choose to blame)
- The Police service have to shoulder some portion of the impact of the comprehensive spending review.
- Regionalisation/Nationalisation of Police protective services was on its way in any way. It was mandated by the Home Office following the failed bid to amalgamate failing/poorly (A matter of public record following HMIC reviews) performing forces eight years ago.
- Aircraft are an expensive piece of equipment to operate and one of the only Police functions where the wages bill is close to the equipment operating/replacement cost, it was prime for cost savings with minimal job losses.
Sadly there seems to be an entrenched attitude by some on this site that NPAS cannot/will not work because they say so. I have only one question to those in such a position.
Have you attempted to become engaged in the NPAS process in a positive way?
Last edited by Wagging Finger; 14th Jun 2012 at 06:59.
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Whitehead06 :
You forgot to ask :
4. If the answer to 1. is NO, and the answer to 2. is NO, and the answer to 3. is NO -
will NPAS still go ahead ? - The answer to this is YES, because those in power have ordered that it will. End of.
You forgot to ask :
4. If the answer to 1. is NO, and the answer to 2. is NO, and the answer to 3. is NO -
will NPAS still go ahead ? - The answer to this is YES, because those in power have ordered that it will. End of.
Last edited by Coconutty; 14th Jun 2012 at 07:02.
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a) it had been kicked off by someone who had ANY previous experience of air support.
b) if it began by reducing costs of EXISTING units, mainly by taking PAS and MAC out the equation, for engineering and pilotage. (thus saving boat loads of money.)
c) if it sought to enhance/improve the police work we do from the air.
Sadly it is merely a tool to chop resources. Nothing NPAS proposes is either not being done already, or previously considered, somewhere across the existing units.
To be honest Winsor is the biggest cloud on the horizon at the moment anyway.
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To be honest Winsor is the biggest cloud on the horizon at the moment anyway.
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£500 a month down, plus going to have to work 6 more years before I can retire IF my pension exists then..!
(just for the record £500 is 25% of a cops' take-home pay on full scale).
So bye bye helicopter, hello beat car..
Perhaps the question should be "Has NPAS tried to engage in a positive way with you"?
They have produced no hard facts based on truth, only assumptions. Their is a good phrase about assumptions..
They have produced no hard facts based on truth, only assumptions. Their is a good phrase about assumptions..
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Timex;
Ignoring the obvious, I assume you meant to say, 'There is a good phrase about using the word assume'. 
Their is a good phrase about assumptions..
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Once again in my pedant role,
Theres a sweeping statement if ever there was one. 'no facts'? Details of base closures? Thats a pretty hard fact if you work at that particular base.
'They have produced little in the way of hard facts based on truth' would have been a better response.
If we are going to engage in a reasoned argument we have to stick to the facts and try and avoid emotion, that is a dangerous road to go down. Granted that is probably why there is little coming from NPAS.
They have produced no hard facts based on truth
'They have produced little in the way of hard facts based on truth' would have been a better response.
If we are going to engage in a reasoned argument we have to stick to the facts and try and avoid emotion, that is a dangerous road to go down. Granted that is probably why there is little coming from NPAS.
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The whole process has been a stitch up from the start. Different Police Authorities spun differing versions of the plan depending entirely on what was required to squeeze through to the next stage. If the benefits were obvious this would not have needed to happen. Now it's coming to crunch time (3 months to the off in the S.E.) some people in positions of responsibility are just beginning to wonder where the savings are actually going to be made, and hey the one helicopter in their part of a region will be flogging from A to B and not getting anywhere fast. Forget 24 hr access, by the time it gets there it'll all be over, and there'll be a gaping hole to backfill. But even though this seems obvious to very many of us, Wagging Finger thinks we can wait until 2016 to evaluate the figures. That's 4 years of reduced service to the public, and a reduction in cover that will take some areas back to pre 1990. Empire builders will be happy though, Well Done.
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HMIC pre-appointment hearing - News from Parliament - UK Parliament
08 June 2012
The Home Affairs Committee is today writing to the Home Secretary’s preferred candidate for the role of Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Constabulary, Tom Winsor, to arrange a pre-appointment hearing.
Committee Chair Rt Hon Keith Vaz MP wrote:
Dear Theresa,
PRE-APPOINTMENT HEARING:
HER MAJESTY’S CHIEF INSPECTOR OF CONSTABULARY
Thank you very much for your letter informing me of your preferred candidate to succeed Sir Denis O’Connor as Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Constabulary.
Your letter refers to the date for the pre-appointment hearing. As you know, my committee clerks have been in continual contact with your office so that they could receive word of the candidate with enough time to circulate the relevant documents for a meeting on Tuesday 12 June. However, your letter arrived by e-mail at 17:44 on Thursday 7 June 2012. By this time, the Committee had arranged an alternative evidence session to avoid the entire session being cancelled. As you will appreciate, members of the committee also need time to see the documents before they interview a candidate of this importance.
In your response to my letter requesting the names of short-listed candidates, you referred to guidelines issued by the Cabinet Office. As you know, the Government has agreed to give committees up to three weeks in which to hold a hearing and publish their report. This gives a committee the necessary time to study the relevant papers.
The guidance suggests that the Committee should aim to give the witness at least a week’s notice of the session. I therefore propose that Mr Winsor should be available for a pre-appointment hearing eith on Tuesday 19 June or Tuesday 26 June. Please come back to me today by 4pm indicating which Mr Winsor prefers. I have also written to him direct giving him a choice of dates.
Finally, may I point out that the first time I heard of your preferred candidate was in a telephone call from a Guardian journalist. I find this most worrying. On an issue of this importance, Parliament ought to be the first to know. Of course, I would also be glad to hear from you personally and you can call me on XXXX XXXX XXXX at any time.
May I express my gratitude for the outstanding service that Sir Denis has given as Chief Inspector. The Committee looks forward to seeing Mr Winsor.
The Home Affairs Committee is today writing to the Home Secretary’s preferred candidate for the role of Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Constabulary, Tom Winsor, to arrange a pre-appointment hearing.
Committee Chair Rt Hon Keith Vaz MP wrote:
Dear Theresa,
PRE-APPOINTMENT HEARING:
HER MAJESTY’S CHIEF INSPECTOR OF CONSTABULARY
Thank you very much for your letter informing me of your preferred candidate to succeed Sir Denis O’Connor as Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Constabulary.
Your letter refers to the date for the pre-appointment hearing. As you know, my committee clerks have been in continual contact with your office so that they could receive word of the candidate with enough time to circulate the relevant documents for a meeting on Tuesday 12 June. However, your letter arrived by e-mail at 17:44 on Thursday 7 June 2012. By this time, the Committee had arranged an alternative evidence session to avoid the entire session being cancelled. As you will appreciate, members of the committee also need time to see the documents before they interview a candidate of this importance.
In your response to my letter requesting the names of short-listed candidates, you referred to guidelines issued by the Cabinet Office. As you know, the Government has agreed to give committees up to three weeks in which to hold a hearing and publish their report. This gives a committee the necessary time to study the relevant papers.
The guidance suggests that the Committee should aim to give the witness at least a week’s notice of the session. I therefore propose that Mr Winsor should be available for a pre-appointment hearing eith on Tuesday 19 June or Tuesday 26 June. Please come back to me today by 4pm indicating which Mr Winsor prefers. I have also written to him direct giving him a choice of dates.
Finally, may I point out that the first time I heard of your preferred candidate was in a telephone call from a Guardian journalist. I find this most worrying. On an issue of this importance, Parliament ought to be the first to know. Of course, I would also be glad to hear from you personally and you can call me on XXXX XXXX XXXX at any time.
May I express my gratitude for the outstanding service that Sir Denis has given as Chief Inspector. The Committee looks forward to seeing Mr Winsor.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
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study project.
So the Merseyside 135 is off to Norway...!
Just out of interest are there any figures produced to back up the claim that the people of Merseyside are getting a "better" service now, than when they had their own a/c..?
What are the figures being used..
Is it number of pursuits successfully attended. ?
Number of direct arrests.?
Anyone point me to a source of the figures.?
Just out of interest are there any figures produced to back up the claim that the people of Merseyside are getting a "better" service now, than when they had their own a/c..?
What are the figures being used..
Is it number of pursuits successfully attended. ?
Number of direct arrests.?
Anyone point me to a source of the figures.?
Anyone point me to a source of the figures.?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
All in the best possible taste
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Hmmm...let's just say that Number of Incidents Attended and Hours Flown in Support of, for 4 out of the 5 Forces since July last year, are way, way, down on those in the same time previous to last July.
