Fear of heights?
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think that would be FL1000. (though I thought they only got up to approx 85000 ft.. .I would love to see the curvature of the earth sometime but not in a helo! or even a Robbo for that matter.!
Senis Semper Fidelis
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lancashire U K
Posts: 1,288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have already posted one reply to ths thread, but upon reading all the others, it seems we all have the same sort of feeling of unease, cos I'm not a trick-cyclist I cannot start to wonder what this affliction is, but is it simply that we have no near objcts to work out our picture, after all even at my mighty FL50 it felt like I was nearer to space than earth, there was nothing except the far of horizon to use as a level for my picture! <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
Iconoclast
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The home of Dudley Dooright-Where the lead dog is the only one that gets a change of scenery.
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have the ladder problem and the fear of falling out of or off of some structure. However when I first started flying in fixed wing as a flight engineer I felt that if the pilots had the gonies to get up front I could man the panel. I had the utmost feeling of safety and would be able to participate in the flight with no feeling of uneasiness. However when I first started to fly in Bell HTL-1s (very early model 47) I was scared sh*****s because of the feeling of being totally exposed to the elements but at the same time not feeling the wind or the rain or the snow. As my flight time started to build in the Bell and our Sikorsky helicopters that feeling went away. However it was replaced by another feeling of uneasiness and I would believe you guys suffer from the same feeling when flying at high altitude. You might attach that feeling to the fear of heights but you might consider this. You are piloting a device made up of thousands of individual parts all flying in formation. These parts are subject to wear, to overstress, faulty manufacture , faulty design and possibly poor maintenance. In the military the poor maintenance never entered into it because I had to maintain whatever I flew in so I made sure it was right. But the wear and overstress were always on my mind. You can get just as dead if you have a structural failure at low altitude and the same at higher altitudes but you have a longer time to contemplate your fate on the way down. This is not offered in a humorous vein as it relates directly to my job in the aircraft industry.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: N.S.W
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fear of Heights
Hello All
Just wanting some advice and/or hints.
I have been flying for nearly 10 years and have over a few thousand hours, however within the last couple of years I haven't been enjoying my flying, because somehow I have gained a fer for heights
Sounds silly, but nearly all of my flying has been low level ie: ag and fire bombing though when I get to ferry back to base and have to climb to over 1000' then I really fear heights and tense up and my heart goes into my mouth when I get hit by a wind gust or turbelence - but as soon as I get below 1000' then I feel comfortable again.
When I was learning to fly all those years ago, it wouldn't bother me going to 3000', but now I start to freak if a job comes up that I have to go up to great heights for a photo shoot etc etc.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated as this is greatly affecting my career decisions
Cheers
BT
Just wanting some advice and/or hints.
I have been flying for nearly 10 years and have over a few thousand hours, however within the last couple of years I haven't been enjoying my flying, because somehow I have gained a fer for heights
Sounds silly, but nearly all of my flying has been low level ie: ag and fire bombing though when I get to ferry back to base and have to climb to over 1000' then I really fear heights and tense up and my heart goes into my mouth when I get hit by a wind gust or turbelence - but as soon as I get below 1000' then I feel comfortable again.
When I was learning to fly all those years ago, it wouldn't bother me going to 3000', but now I start to freak if a job comes up that I have to go up to great heights for a photo shoot etc etc.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated as this is greatly affecting my career decisions
Cheers
BT
Good on you for bringing it up!
For me, tooling around mountains at 10,000 is no problem.
IFR in a big machine is fine. It's the little buggers at alititude that feels so flimsy and "squirelly". I had the opportunity with an instructor to go up to 10,000 in an R22 - thankfully the winds were too high and we canned it. I KNOW I would have hated it.
FW at FL350 is no problem. You're mainly concentrating on drinking coffee and finding the best winds anyway...
For me, tooling around mountains at 10,000 is no problem.
IFR in a big machine is fine. It's the little buggers at alititude that feels so flimsy and "squirelly". I had the opportunity with an instructor to go up to 10,000 in an R22 - thankfully the winds were too high and we canned it. I KNOW I would have hated it.
FW at FL350 is no problem. You're mainly concentrating on drinking coffee and finding the best winds anyway...
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Where I'm pointing...
Posts: 582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Duck, I now christen you Duck "Chopper Reid" Dogers.
BTH, as shared by others, you are not alone.
I am not a fan of taking a helicopter above 2000' AGL.. and quite frankly why bother?
As part of my ppl(h) in SA we went to 9000' AGL in a 22 with no doors. (and ground level was ~5200').
The auto down was pretty interesting.
I'll climb for hills and mountains, but other than that, I like seeing the detail on the ground, part of the reason I fly helicopters.
In Fixed wing height doesn't bother me.
Though as Duck says, when I get bothered by the height, I just tell myself to 'Harden the F**k up!'... It does not take the fear away but gets me through
BTH, as shared by others, you are not alone.
I am not a fan of taking a helicopter above 2000' AGL.. and quite frankly why bother?
As part of my ppl(h) in SA we went to 9000' AGL in a 22 with no doors. (and ground level was ~5200').
The auto down was pretty interesting.
I'll climb for hills and mountains, but other than that, I like seeing the detail on the ground, part of the reason I fly helicopters.
In Fixed wing height doesn't bother me.
Though as Duck says, when I get bothered by the height, I just tell myself to 'Harden the F**k up!'... It does not take the fear away but gets me through
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: N.S.W
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello all
Im glad in one way with the previous posts through the merged thread, that I am not alone in fearing heights as a pilot.
So where to from here - any suggestions of professional help or other tips on over-coming this problem ???
Cheers
BT
Im glad in one way with the previous posts through the merged thread, that I am not alone in fearing heights as a pilot.
So where to from here - any suggestions of professional help or other tips on over-coming this problem ???
Cheers
BT
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Philadelphia PA
Age: 73
Posts: 1,835
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
My personal survey of pilot friends shows that 80% can't stand heights in buildings, and most won't go up a ladder to their roof.
My experience is that above about 2,000' with the doors off starts to get a bit spooky, and 20,000 AGL in a Gazelle (with doors on, parachute and O2 even) was also getting a bit dicey.
Not sure what it is, but it is prevalent.
My experience is that above about 2,000' with the doors off starts to get a bit spooky, and 20,000 AGL in a Gazelle (with doors on, parachute and O2 even) was also getting a bit dicey.
Not sure what it is, but it is prevalent.
The reason people get scared of heights in buildings, on cliffs or ladders is because of the perspective of the structure disappearing beneath them - look down and you see the building width dwindling; you can feel your height and so on.
In an aircraft, there's a disconnect between you and the ground, so your hind brain can't say "ooooh, that's a long way down". There can obviously still be the fear of being at height ("what if the wing falls off?"), but not necessarily that gut-squirming, visceral, "this is plain wrong" fear of heights.
In a fixed-wing, there's not a huge amount of view outside, yup there are windows but there's also a lot of metal, helping protect our monkey-brain from the feeling that we'll will fall out of the tree. In helicopters, we're generally blessed with stupendous views out of acres of perspex, but as we climb this starts working against us - the acreage in view expands enormously so the seat/floor under us appears to shrink, until we feel we're precariously balanced and our inner chimp starts shrieking at us that the branch we're sitting on is really, really, really thin and likely to break at any moment.
In an aircraft, there's a disconnect between you and the ground, so your hind brain can't say "ooooh, that's a long way down". There can obviously still be the fear of being at height ("what if the wing falls off?"), but not necessarily that gut-squirming, visceral, "this is plain wrong" fear of heights.
In a fixed-wing, there's not a huge amount of view outside, yup there are windows but there's also a lot of metal, helping protect our monkey-brain from the feeling that we'll will fall out of the tree. In helicopters, we're generally blessed with stupendous views out of acres of perspex, but as we climb this starts working against us - the acreage in view expands enormously so the seat/floor under us appears to shrink, until we feel we're precariously balanced and our inner chimp starts shrieking at us that the branch we're sitting on is really, really, really thin and likely to break at any moment.
I never had this fear of height in helicopters until after taking up parachute jumping for a hobby. Then it appeared sporadically and without any certain set of circumstances setting it off.
What I descibe it as being is not the fear of height but rather of being afraid of the fall that shall end with a real thump! It is not the fall but the thought of the sudden stop at the end.
While jumping with parachutes attached to your back....one's mindset is there will not be that sudden stop at the bottom as one of the two parachutes is bound to catch you short of that.
As long as you have confidance in your equipment.....then there is piece of mind.
Perhaps it is not a fear of heights but a crisis of confidance we are feeling.
But I do like the concept of the skinny branch and a subtle tie to monkey thinking as Robbo notes.
What I descibe it as being is not the fear of height but rather of being afraid of the fall that shall end with a real thump! It is not the fall but the thought of the sudden stop at the end.
While jumping with parachutes attached to your back....one's mindset is there will not be that sudden stop at the bottom as one of the two parachutes is bound to catch you short of that.
As long as you have confidance in your equipment.....then there is piece of mind.
Perhaps it is not a fear of heights but a crisis of confidance we are feeling.
But I do like the concept of the skinny branch and a subtle tie to monkey thinking as Robbo notes.
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northampton
Age: 58
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi BTH
OK, I work in this field and will attempt to provide some help. However, I do this with hesitation... anyway.
You need to determine the cause of this. One option is that it is a pure sensory association of anxiety or fear that you have made at some point. Mostly because of some kind of experience in your past. These sensory associations are purely associative in nature and has no rational base or explanation (well it can have but not necessarily).
Another option (or added to the above) is that as we getting older or having more experience in life we change our beliefs about lots of things, including flying.eg. we are more aware of the dangers, we value our lifes and family life differently, etc. So, you could potentially think of an aspect of flying as more dangerous.
There are more reasons, e.g. your sense of balance also needs your eyes for reference and the higher you fly the less your eyes can help your ears(balance).
What to do? If it is the sensory option, go get in a heli and fly at your fear height until the feeling gets slightly easier. Repeat this a few times. It is important to stay at that height until you sense a reduction in the feelings, even if it is very small. Sensory associations are not strong and can shift relatively easy. If you avoid it, you just reinforce it.
If it is the belief option , well then you need to do some reflection on those beliefs and either work on changing them or to counter them with alternatives.
Best is to go and see someone as this is not necessarily a big problem! Then it is easy to determine the cause and find a solution.
Good luck
MVNH
OK, I work in this field and will attempt to provide some help. However, I do this with hesitation... anyway.
You need to determine the cause of this. One option is that it is a pure sensory association of anxiety or fear that you have made at some point. Mostly because of some kind of experience in your past. These sensory associations are purely associative in nature and has no rational base or explanation (well it can have but not necessarily).
Another option (or added to the above) is that as we getting older or having more experience in life we change our beliefs about lots of things, including flying.eg. we are more aware of the dangers, we value our lifes and family life differently, etc. So, you could potentially think of an aspect of flying as more dangerous.
There are more reasons, e.g. your sense of balance also needs your eyes for reference and the higher you fly the less your eyes can help your ears(balance).
What to do? If it is the sensory option, go get in a heli and fly at your fear height until the feeling gets slightly easier. Repeat this a few times. It is important to stay at that height until you sense a reduction in the feelings, even if it is very small. Sensory associations are not strong and can shift relatively easy. If you avoid it, you just reinforce it.
If it is the belief option , well then you need to do some reflection on those beliefs and either work on changing them or to counter them with alternatives.
Best is to go and see someone as this is not necessarily a big problem! Then it is easy to determine the cause and find a solution.
Good luck
MVNH
Thank god - I thought I was the only one!
Having done 98% of my flying below 500' and quite often at treetop level doing utility work - I could never get comfortable flying above about 1500'
For me it seems to be about seeing the detail on the ground - although I know i'm safer higher up, I feel more in control lower down. Because the horizon is all around rather than below, its easier to judge attitude and therefore everything feels more stable. Once I lose ground detail and i'm looking down at everything I become more prone to that tumbling sensation. Interestingly, If i'm flying at night in mountains i'll go way up, and it doesn't bother me because i'm using the instruments more.
Having done 98% of my flying below 500' and quite often at treetop level doing utility work - I could never get comfortable flying above about 1500'
For me it seems to be about seeing the detail on the ground - although I know i'm safer higher up, I feel more in control lower down. Because the horizon is all around rather than below, its easier to judge attitude and therefore everything feels more stable. Once I lose ground detail and i'm looking down at everything I become more prone to that tumbling sensation. Interestingly, If i'm flying at night in mountains i'll go way up, and it doesn't bother me because i'm using the instruments more.
"Hind Brain"...also known as your "reptilian brain".
This is the part of the brain that stores "visceral" experiences and reacts whether you like it or not. If this little bugger is over-acting, it needs some attention.
This is the part of the brain that stores "visceral" experiences and reacts whether you like it or not. If this little bugger is over-acting, it needs some attention.