Gazelle: Flying, operating, buying
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I agree with Fiesta.
The Gazelle is a joy to fly and, probably because I'm not a sufficiently experienced pilot to push it to the limits of its envelope, I've not found any vices.
It's a very responsive machine and need more cautious pedal input than, for example, a B206. Because the blades turn the opposite way to most helicopters, that is an aspect which can catch out the 'newly converted' and has to be taken into account. I still do!
I don't think the (very slightly) different engine in the ex-mil Gazelles makes any difference at all to the handling - or, if it does, I haven't noticed.
SAS, which few civvy Gazelles seem to have, makes things even easier in a helicopter which is a delight to fly even without it.
I'm only a PPL but, for what my opinion's worth, I think the key with any new type (especially for a PPL) is thorough training for the type rating.
Fiesta mentions the Swazi-reg Gazelle - which must mean MW Helicopters at Stapleford. I know MW insist anyone who buys a Gazelle from them has thorough training, and a demanding checkride with Al Gwilt an ex AAC display pilot who still flies Gazelles in the TA. Although the basic CAA requirement is 5 hours, I think they insist on 10 hours minimum training and a successful flight test for anyone who hasn't flown turbines before.
MW are obviously in a strong position to sell only on their terms, but I don't think their strict approach to safety is unreasonable. The basic 5 hours isn't enough if you've only flown R22s previously.
Anyone can have bad luck (and we don't know if these two accidents were mechanical failure or pilot error) but the MW approach seems to have worked so far.
Tudor Owen
The Gazelle is a joy to fly and, probably because I'm not a sufficiently experienced pilot to push it to the limits of its envelope, I've not found any vices.
It's a very responsive machine and need more cautious pedal input than, for example, a B206. Because the blades turn the opposite way to most helicopters, that is an aspect which can catch out the 'newly converted' and has to be taken into account. I still do!
I don't think the (very slightly) different engine in the ex-mil Gazelles makes any difference at all to the handling - or, if it does, I haven't noticed.
SAS, which few civvy Gazelles seem to have, makes things even easier in a helicopter which is a delight to fly even without it.
I'm only a PPL but, for what my opinion's worth, I think the key with any new type (especially for a PPL) is thorough training for the type rating.
Fiesta mentions the Swazi-reg Gazelle - which must mean MW Helicopters at Stapleford. I know MW insist anyone who buys a Gazelle from them has thorough training, and a demanding checkride with Al Gwilt an ex AAC display pilot who still flies Gazelles in the TA. Although the basic CAA requirement is 5 hours, I think they insist on 10 hours minimum training and a successful flight test for anyone who hasn't flown turbines before.
MW are obviously in a strong position to sell only on their terms, but I don't think their strict approach to safety is unreasonable. The basic 5 hours isn't enough if you've only flown R22s previously.
Anyone can have bad luck (and we don't know if these two accidents were mechanical failure or pilot error) but the MW approach seems to have worked so far.
Tudor Owen
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 17th Jul 2002 at 13:02.
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I don't fly Gazelles and have heard nothing but praise for them by those that do but I've also heard that if you do a downwind quick stop, flaring as you go round, if you let the nose drop to face into the ground then you will surely follow in that direction with little chance to recover. Is this true and if so why?
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This to me should be an easy question to answer.
The Gazelle is a performer without a doubt. It has it's vices but so do most other helicopters. There is 27 in this country on various reg all civil built. Some are 341 models with the astazou 111A/B engine similar to the original 111N military engine and some are 342 fitted with the 14H engine which out performs both the early engines and that of the updated military fit. There is only a few ex military machines flying at present and they are no more difficult to fly than the civil built machines, if any thing they are easier as they have a SAS and Stick feel system. The owners of these machines have enjoyed (touch wood) so far accident free flying.(I cant say if it is incedent free though). They are regularly checked (LPC) which generally last in the region of 1.2-1.5 hours depending on their requests. It would be wrong of me to comment on the training package but they do come back for more.
Just remember you would not put your foot down going around a roundabout in the wet in a 3 litre Ford Capri. Fly it as you see it and not as you think it.
The Gazelle is a performer without a doubt. It has it's vices but so do most other helicopters. There is 27 in this country on various reg all civil built. Some are 341 models with the astazou 111A/B engine similar to the original 111N military engine and some are 342 fitted with the 14H engine which out performs both the early engines and that of the updated military fit. There is only a few ex military machines flying at present and they are no more difficult to fly than the civil built machines, if any thing they are easier as they have a SAS and Stick feel system. The owners of these machines have enjoyed (touch wood) so far accident free flying.(I cant say if it is incedent free though). They are regularly checked (LPC) which generally last in the region of 1.2-1.5 hours depending on their requests. It would be wrong of me to comment on the training package but they do come back for more.
Just remember you would not put your foot down going around a roundabout in the wet in a 3 litre Ford Capri. Fly it as you see it and not as you think it.
ClearBluewater - I don't know who told you that cobblers but if you point the nose at the ground in any helo during a downwind quickstop you will be in for an interesting ride. The Gazelle is great - every home should have one. Certainly a damn sight safer in inexperienced hands than Uncle Frank's machine!
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I suppose the key to safety in the Gazelle is not to get too cocky with it. I did my BFT and an instructors course in the Gazelle and yes, it was quite easy and a delight to fly. It was also monstrously powerful, fast and manouevrable, maybe too much so for a beginner. Like any fast piece of kit (even a capri), you've just got to take it in stages.
My five cents...
Allowing the nose to drop in a turn and flare manoeuvre while close to the ground is very dangerous in any machine (balance, balance!!). The Australian Army lost an S-70 during a similar turn a few years back. (Nick, your five cents for the high tech stuff?). Do the same (i.e. drop the nose) in a f/w at low level and watch the ground come up!
I'd love to fly a Gazelle (are there any in Aust? - not that I've seen), and it would be a shame if people were put of by rumour and innuendo (if that is the case) regarding its handling.
Allowing the nose to drop in a turn and flare manoeuvre while close to the ground is very dangerous in any machine (balance, balance!!). The Australian Army lost an S-70 during a similar turn a few years back. (Nick, your five cents for the high tech stuff?). Do the same (i.e. drop the nose) in a f/w at low level and watch the ground come up!
I'd love to fly a Gazelle (are there any in Aust? - not that I've seen), and it would be a shame if people were put of by rumour and innuendo (if that is the case) regarding its handling.
Senis Semper Fidelis
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A very good friend of mine owned a 1998 R22, that he used for business, but got very tired of trying to get home from business meets with mainly Northerly winds blowing against him, obviously this meant he would be better of by car, so he looked round for some thing that would be better and slightly bigger, what did he plump for but a 342 Gazelle, he purchased a absolutly brilliant machine from MW, at MWs insistance he did the extended conversion from R22 to 342, then he hired the tutor( Ex Raf Shawbury) to give him some more, now he flies all over Gt Britain with the speed of a swift arrow, having been with him a time or two I can confirm the Gazzer is a real performer and has so much power available, cross country speed is similar to that achieved by any sports car when driven flat out down hangar straight, comfort is superb, and handling is a dream, But beware of the pedal inputs at low speed when hovering, things tend to happen so fast.
Having paid a little tax in the past, I am extremly pi££ed off, that all you mil types have had this Helo as your private transport FROM NEW, what about us civvies!!
Having paid a little tax in the past, I am extremly pi££ed off, that all you mil types have had this Helo as your private transport FROM NEW, what about us civvies!!
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AAAAAAHH the Guzzle
Squuiffy,
there is one in OZ owned now ( I think ) by a photographer called Green. Think it lives somewhere just north of Melbourne. Ask Uncle Richard the ABC pilot in SYD as he had an engine licence and knew where it lives. Richard used to fly the NPWS machines.
Lovely machine, two were owned by National Parks in NSW but both severely damaged. One while working in Kosi and the other in Warrumbungles.
Syd
there is one in OZ owned now ( I think ) by a photographer called Green. Think it lives somewhere just north of Melbourne. Ask Uncle Richard the ABC pilot in SYD as he had an engine licence and knew where it lives. Richard used to fly the NPWS machines.
Lovely machine, two were owned by National Parks in NSW but both severely damaged. One while working in Kosi and the other in Warrumbungles.
Syd
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I remember seeing the Aus Gazele on the cover of Heli-news a few years back (complete with story of the purchase, re-build, re-engine and general guff).
A bit after that it was up for sale as the Photographer owner (Green?) was upgrading to a EC135.
A bit after that it was up for sale as the Photographer owner (Green?) was upgrading to a EC135.
Mr Green is an ex Pom, who bought his Gazelle about 1989 or 90, IIRC. PMA looked after it for him at Bankstown, where little expense was spared. Having sold his Convention Marketing company back in UK for a disgusting amount of money, he has the money & leisure to enjoy himself 
Since upgraded to another of EIP's machines.
VH-ONE is currently another (the only?) Gazelle in Australia, owned by a local businessman who has had a number of helicopters. Very nicely finished, it is kept at Moorabbin and looked after by PHS.
Since upgraded to another of EIP's machines.VH-ONE is currently another (the only?) Gazelle in Australia, owned by a local businessman who has had a number of helicopters. Very nicely finished, it is kept at Moorabbin and looked after by PHS.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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I have 800 hours on type (mostly instructional) and would like to say it's a delight to fly and is perfect to learn in. The only reason they were retired was the cost to run became high. I now fly squirrel which is reliable beyond comparison but nowhere near as much fun. If you normally use a 206, try a Gazelle and have a nice day.
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Gazelle medevac?
The cost of these ex mil Gazelles has presented my with an idea for missionary type work in Mexico.
Could the Gazelle carry a simple litter in the cabin? It has been some time since I saw one and I remember it as quite small. But could it work? I am not talking of a multi million dollar EMS ship but something simple to replace the pickup truck beds sometimes used now.
Thanks
Clayton
Could the Gazelle carry a simple litter in the cabin? It has been some time since I saw one and I remember it as quite small. But could it work? I am not talking of a multi million dollar EMS ship but something simple to replace the pickup truck beds sometimes used now.
Thanks
Clayton
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Yes you can. As you say it requires removal of the co-pilots seat and the rear seat cover to gain access to the boot compartment (for the patients legs, not head)! I don't think it was designed with casevac in mind but I have seen it used as such. I've tried to sleep in a gazelle like that on exercise and it is bloody uncomfortable.
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I've done a few casevacs in the Gazelle, it can be done but very cramped.
RA is correct and the LH seat has to come out for a prone cas but a normal stretcher wont fit, the newer inflatables would probably work ok. There is only just enough room for a small PM in the back doing the funky stuff. In Mexico check out the DA for operations as you may find a limit in payload/range for the old girl.
Otherwise its quick and dependable.
RA is correct and the LH seat has to come out for a prone cas but a normal stretcher wont fit, the newer inflatables would probably work ok. There is only just enough room for a small PM in the back doing the funky stuff. In Mexico check out the DA for operations as you may find a limit in payload/range for the old girl.
Otherwise its quick and dependable.
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I have used Gazelles in Kenya for Casevac, and you dont get much hotter and higher... one problem, you can only get one geezer in it, but the bonus is that it is racing bike technology and as such you will get many hours flying/maint.
go for it
go for it