Approach airport A land at airport B
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Approach airport A land at airport B
Hello,
Quick question:
Imagine planning an IFR to VFR flight to a field with no IFR procedures (destination A).
Problem is the weather does not allow you to safely descent to VMC
e.g. grid MORA 5000ft, clouds OVC040.
You could use a nearby IFR equipped aerodrome (destination B), follow the STAR/approach to safely get you below the clouds and then continue to your destination in VMC.
Now the question is, how would you put these intentions in your flightplan?
Plan to dest B and put A as an alternate?
Re-clearance in flight?
Thanks!
Quick question:
Imagine planning an IFR to VFR flight to a field with no IFR procedures (destination A).
Problem is the weather does not allow you to safely descent to VMC
e.g. grid MORA 5000ft, clouds OVC040.
You could use a nearby IFR equipped aerodrome (destination B), follow the STAR/approach to safely get you below the clouds and then continue to your destination in VMC.
Now the question is, how would you put these intentions in your flightplan?
Plan to dest B and put A as an alternate?
Re-clearance in flight?
Thanks!
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Surely your preflight planning would have picked this up?
Your better off keeping it an IFR flight until you know you can go VFR and just cancel the flight plan.
Your idea of going to another airport to use it as a let down procedure can get you into a lot of trouble especially if you lose visual again.
Keep it simple.
Your better off keeping it an IFR flight until you know you can go VFR and just cancel the flight plan.
Your idea of going to another airport to use it as a let down procedure can get you into a lot of trouble especially if you lose visual again.
Keep it simple.
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The idea is safe, not trying to do any risky stuff here. (pure hypothetically)
Maybe a more extreme example can clear things up.
Lets take the Alps, safe altitude around 18000 ft are not unusual there. Clouds at 9000ft. 2 airports in the same valley, at 1500ft elev.
Perfectly safe, just need something to get through the clouds
Maybe a more extreme example can clear things up.
Lets take the Alps, safe altitude around 18000 ft are not unusual there. Clouds at 9000ft. 2 airports in the same valley, at 1500ft elev.
Perfectly safe, just need something to get through the clouds
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I'm aware of the potential dangers, lets say in every possible scenario imaginable, it is safe to do so.
How do i put this in my flight plan if at least some part of the STAR/approach of another aerodrome is flown.
Do i file my route to the aerodrome with the IFR procedures and write my route from that aerodrome to my destination as "RIF/" (re-clearance in flight) on my flight plan?
How do i put this in my flight plan if at least some part of the STAR/approach of another aerodrome is flown.
Do i file my route to the aerodrome with the IFR procedures and write my route from that aerodrome to my destination as "RIF/" (re-clearance in flight) on my flight plan?
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Unfortunately there is no such thing as "FAA/... office" outside FAA land, all we have in Europe are bureaucrats making thing more difficult then they already are 
As there are many airfields without IFR procedures in Europe there must be some pilots here who have experience with this
As there are many airfields without IFR procedures in Europe there must be some pilots here who have experience with this
Is there a reason you can't just file IFR with the approach airport as your destination and then when you break out and are sure things are OK just tell ATC you are cancelling IFR and wish to proceed VFR to the other airport ?
Why do you need a VFR fight plan to go from the approach airport to the destination VFR airport ?
Why do you need a VFR fight plan to go from the approach airport to the destination VFR airport ?
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If you have considered all your options, this is not a bad thing to do.
File to your destination, who knows, the weather may improve. Some controller will say: A doesn't have an instrument approach, say intentions:
YOU: Request vector over airport A at minimum vectoring altitude, if able will proceed visually to airport for landing, IF UNABLE will request VOR A apch at airport B and asses conditions for VFR to destination A
Controllers: Roger (under his breath, this is more work for me)
File to your destination, who knows, the weather may improve. Some controller will say: A doesn't have an instrument approach, say intentions:
YOU: Request vector over airport A at minimum vectoring altitude, if able will proceed visually to airport for landing, IF UNABLE will request VOR A apch at airport B and asses conditions for VFR to destination A
Controllers: Roger (under his breath, this is more work for me)
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@Big Pistons
You must file a IFR to VFR flight plan in case your destination has no IFR procedures or the flight plan wont be accepted.
@GF
A little confusing, i'm assuming you mean "you CAN just file to the..."
You must file a IFR to VFR flight plan in case your destination has no IFR procedures or the flight plan wont be accepted.
@GF
A little confusing, i'm assuming you mean "you CAN just file to the..."
I haven't had to do this but I'm thinking I would plan to Airport B then Airport A. At airport B change details to VFR. In remarks note that you're doing an instrument approach at B or just leave it and explain to ATC in flight.
For those who think the concept is somehow unsafe, it can be common in mountainous area to be able to safely fly VFR once below the cloud layer to places that you simply can't get into IFR.
Edit: Put the more complicated plan in the filed flight plan, if you get to B or close to B and see that A is clear just change to VFR and continue. If you do it the other way, filing the simple plan direct to A and then have to change to doing the instrument approach at B you have more explaining to do over the radio and the controllers will be less prepared for what you want to do.
For those who think the concept is somehow unsafe, it can be common in mountainous area to be able to safely fly VFR once below the cloud layer to places that you simply can't get into IFR.
Edit: Put the more complicated plan in the filed flight plan, if you get to B or close to B and see that A is clear just change to VFR and continue. If you do it the other way, filing the simple plan direct to A and then have to change to doing the instrument approach at B you have more explaining to do over the radio and the controllers will be less prepared for what you want to do.
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Guess that makes the most sense.
Does anyone have any experience using "RIF/:" in "Other info" on the flightplan?
From AIP
RIF/: The route details to the revised destination aerodrome, following by the ICAO four-letter location indicator of the aerodrome. The revised route is subject to reclearance in flight (e.g. RIF/DTA HEC KLAX, RIF/ESP G94 CLA YPPH).
Can this be used in this scenario or not? Only see this used when using the pre-determined point procedure.
Does anyone have any experience using "RIF/:" in "Other info" on the flightplan?
From AIP
RIF/: The route details to the revised destination aerodrome, following by the ICAO four-letter location indicator of the aerodrome. The revised route is subject to reclearance in flight (e.g. RIF/DTA HEC KLAX, RIF/ESP G94 CLA YPPH).
Can this be used in this scenario or not? Only see this used when using the pre-determined point procedure.
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aerocat
that is why the word UNABLE is there. IF you are unable to see the airport and unable to get vectors to min vectoring altitude, then go to the other airport.
FILE for where you want to go. Advise ATC if unable to get there. File an alternate too ( do I have to explain requirements of an alternate airport too?)
BUT folks, prepare to spend the night at the OTHER airport if it doesn't work out.
that is why the word UNABLE is there. IF you are unable to see the airport and unable to get vectors to min vectoring altitude, then go to the other airport.
FILE for where you want to go. Advise ATC if unable to get there. File an alternate too ( do I have to explain requirements of an alternate airport too?)
BUT folks, prepare to spend the night at the OTHER airport if it doesn't work out.
Dollehz
What I meant was file to A, cancel and fly over to B once in VMC. If not able to get VMC, land at A. Getting to VMC would involve either a descent under radar control to MVA, fly approach to A, or, non-radar, descent to minimum IFR altitude on the airway and cancel IFR, if VMC.
GF
What I meant was file to A, cancel and fly over to B once in VMC. If not able to get VMC, land at A. Getting to VMC would involve either a descent under radar control to MVA, fly approach to A, or, non-radar, descent to minimum IFR altitude on the airway and cancel IFR, if VMC.
GF
