Job prospects after modular ATPL (UK)? Loan or secure a job?
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Hi Alexey, easyJet currently do not take modular cadets and the integrated students who have just joined them (From schemes outside of the MPL) have had to pay for their type ratings, there is currently no option to be bonded.
Following on from a conversation with them yesterday they are looking to source another 200 pilots over the next year so if supply of integrated students dries up hopefully they will open the doors again to modular students.
Plan for the worst case scenario, e.g. paying for your TR then if you end up being bonded its a bonus.
Best of luck
Following on from a conversation with them yesterday they are looking to source another 200 pilots over the next year so if supply of integrated students dries up hopefully they will open the doors again to modular students.
Plan for the worst case scenario, e.g. paying for your TR then if you end up being bonded its a bonus.
Best of luck
) and the destinations but the work environment (or what I see of it anyway). As hobbit said below the industry is quite cyclical so I don't think it will be an impossibility that they run dry when I plan to finish training (10+ year's time).What connection to you have to EZY? Do you work there or are applying? As a pilot or flight ops?
I will try to take your advice (which seems to be quite common advice in this thread) and "prepare for the worst, hope for the best". Thanks for taking the time to reply.
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At the risk of saying the same things over again....
How about ten years?
For all of your twenties, whilst your contemporaries are out partying, going on holiday, earning more, and so on? (I know you think you can earn £50k straight out of uni. This is - unfortunately - very unlikely. I would love to be proved wrong.)
(my bold). Yes, it is far easier said than done. I think you'll find that in reality, 'just' being bonded for a bizjet/ejet/Dash 8 is the end and very bloody desirable goal for a very large percentage of commercial pilots. This should include you! It is not just a stepping stone onto the higher plane of existence (#sarcasm) that is airline flying.
I guarantee you that if you end up saying something like that in conversation with an experienced pilot - one who may well be involved in their operation's recruitment processes in some way - you will piss them off. Even if they are that superior form of life that is the Airline Pilot (#stillsarcasm).
You're optimistic.
I agree. Go for it. Hard work is important. However, you will need luck too. You will need to end up being in the right place at the right time, somehow.
Just be aware that it is almost certainly going to be a LOT harder than you think, given what you've said. Also, be warned; the aviation industry goes up and down in cycles, traditionally about a seven year cycle. We're riding high right now. In the future, there 100% will be a downturn again; and it will either be very hard to get a first flying job, or you run the very real risk of being made redundant (again) because of downsizing or companies going bust.
No company is immune. Remember that little operator called Flybe, that went bust twice? The first time - although a lot of people could see the signs - it still went kaput, and spectacularly so. That was after decades of operation; it was seen as a safe bet for ages.
You need to go find out if you can pass a class 1 medical first, before you spend any money/take out a whopping great big loan. Find out if there are any showstoppers on the medical front first.
How about ten years?
For all of your twenties, whilst your contemporaries are out partying, going on holiday, earning more, and so on? (I know you think you can earn £50k straight out of uni. This is - unfortunately - very unlikely. I would love to be proved wrong.)
(my bold). Yes, it is far easier said than done. I think you'll find that in reality, 'just' being bonded for a bizjet/ejet/Dash 8 is the end and very bloody desirable goal for a very large percentage of commercial pilots. This should include you! It is not just a stepping stone onto the higher plane of existence (#sarcasm) that is airline flying.
I guarantee you that if you end up saying something like that in conversation with an experienced pilot - one who may well be involved in their operation's recruitment processes in some way - you will piss them off. Even if they are that superior form of life that is the Airline Pilot (#stillsarcasm).
You're optimistic.
I agree. Go for it. Hard work is important. However, you will need luck too. You will need to end up being in the right place at the right time, somehow.
Just be aware that it is almost certainly going to be a LOT harder than you think, given what you've said. Also, be warned; the aviation industry goes up and down in cycles, traditionally about a seven year cycle. We're riding high right now. In the future, there 100% will be a downturn again; and it will either be very hard to get a first flying job, or you run the very real risk of being made redundant (again) because of downsizing or companies going bust.
No company is immune. Remember that little operator called Flybe, that went bust twice? The first time - although a lot of people could see the signs - it still went kaput, and spectacularly so. That was after decades of operation; it was seen as a safe bet for ages.
You need to go find out if you can pass a class 1 medical first, before you spend any money/take out a whopping great big loan. Find out if there are any showstoppers on the medical front first.
I do try to be optimistic - I find that in most cases it has more benefits than drawbacks (although this discussion may be one of the exceptions!)
I don't know what I can do about being in the right place at the right time - but as mentioned above (perhaps even by yourself) that many flightschools have links/recruitment opportunities with many reputable airlines. I can't be more lucky but I can very well increase my chances if I play my cards right.
By the time I finish flight training (at 25-30 years of age) I am sure the aviation industry will have changed twice over. I can't predict the future though, so I suppose I will just have to wait and see where it goes.
I had a browse over the CAA Class 1 medical requirements; the only thing I could see possibly maybe being an issue is:
CLASS 1 - AMC1 MED.B.080
(i) Eustachian tube(s) dysfunctionApplicants with permanent dysfunction of the Eustachian tube(s) may be assessed as fit if ENT evaluation is satisfactory.
Anyways, thank you again for the wisdom and advice, if all goes well I'll see you from the RHS of a jet in about a decade's time
ETA: I think there will be enough time in uni for going out and getting wasted before I start working any full time jobs
Last edited by alexeyAP; 6th Jul 2023 at 19:48. Reason: ETA
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Sensible approach
I'm not sure what you mean by this. When I finish school I will be 17 and then I will pursue higher education in uni in something non-aviation related so I can have a secure stable source of income to fund my training and as a plan B if aviation doesn't work out. I am also committed to doing this with as little debt as possible simply because if I finish my ATPLs with 25k of loans (plus interest!) and cannot find a good paying job then I will not be able to pay it back (even if I do it will be a setback when it comes to mortgaging a property as I have additional loan repayments to make). Doing some quick maths:
- 4 years (if I'm doing a M) of uni brings me to 21 at graduation.
- Best-case scenario of a £50k p.a. job - let's say £45k after tax - I can live 'frugally' on £25k and invest/save the £20k left over. (£50k per annum if I work 2 jobs doesn't seem unreasonable depending on the field)
- 20k for 3 years (24-25 years old now) makes 60k on the upper end of a modular course (which let's face it will probably be on the lower end when I start training)
- Train modularly non-stop for 1.5 years (which brings me to 26-27)
- Fly for regionals/sightseeing tours/skydiving/banner towing/literally whatever for 2 or 3 years then graduate to an Airbus.
Avoid debt were possible , even if you get your first job at 30 that’s still 30+ years in the cockpit as long as you can maintain your medical.
There is no rush , do some travelling enjoy your GA flying. Just make sure you keep the goal in sight and don’t drift off.
All the best Captain.
Peter
Taking on some debt could have you into the RHS at 25 rather than 30 OP. May not seem life changing now but if you leave it a few years to do more saving, life will come along, you’ll have a kid, etc etc and all of a sudden you wake up at 50 in your old job with a dusty old logbook somewhere with half a CPL in it.
You can live on beans and rice for a couple of years, you won’t be able to for six or seven.
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You are probably correct about my 50k estimate but I will research where I can and try to pick the most lucrative jobs I can find (while also being decent at them+enjoying them a little). I also know that it's not as simple as 'finding' someone to bond you but I'll see what I can do about it when it comes to it. I'll listen to you and not tell any experienced pilot what I've just told you - especially not at an interview
A good proportion of people interviewing for turboprop commuter jobs are of course trying to use it as a stepping stone to that shiny Boeing or Airbus. The successful ones don't point it out, although I'm sure the interview panel know. Others find those kind of jobs perfect.
An aside; One of the best pieces of advice I've ever gotten from an experienced pilot is to not chase the flashy, glamourous airline job to the exception of all else. People often sacrifice their social life/life outside of their job, their happiness, and relationships in order to get this kinda job. They often end up being miserable in the long term; there's a surprisingly high rate of AIDS in pilots I've known (not that - Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome). Hard to have a meaningful relationship with your spouse when you're never home in the evenings or weekends, or the roster makes you exhausted when you are. You can never get time back.
Go for the best combination of lifestyle, happiness, pay, and location you can. Even if that means being paid £60k instead of £100k - even if this means flying those lower forms of life (#moresarcasm) such as small turboprops or bizjets. Seriously - it's never all about the airlines.
I do try to be optimistic - I find that in most cases it has more benefits than drawbacks (although this discussion may be one of the exceptions!)
I don't know what I can do about being in the right place at the right time - but as mentioned above (perhaps even by yourself) that many flightschools have links/recruitment opportunities with many reputable airlines. I can't be more lucky but I can very well increase my chances if I play my cards right.
I don't know what I can do about being in the right place at the right time - but as mentioned above (perhaps even by yourself) that many flightschools have links/recruitment opportunities with many reputable airlines. I can't be more lucky but I can very well increase my chances if I play my cards right.
They do, but IIRC the flight schools with those links are the more expensive integrated ones.
If you believe some of the more gloomy/forward looking predictions, you will probably see single-crew airliners, and then pilotless airliners, within the next 20-30 years. Have a back up plan so you can pay your mortgage.
I had a browse over the CAA Class 1 medical requirements; the only thing I could see possibly maybe being an issue is:
I have a dysfunction of the Eustachian tubes (which I would argue is a benefit rather than a dysfunction) which means I can open and close them at will by flexing a muscle. I don't think it should cause any problems though, I imagine it would actually be quite useful for taking care of pressure changes hands-free.
I have a dysfunction of the Eustachian tubes (which I would argue is a benefit rather than a dysfunction) which means I can open and close them at will by flexing a muscle. I don't think it should cause any problems though, I imagine it would actually be quite useful for taking care of pressure changes hands-free.
Hope to see you there.
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Nail. Head.
Taking on some debt could have you into the RHS at 25 rather than 30 OP. May not seem life changing now but if you leave it a few years to do more saving, life will come along, you’ll have a kid, etc etc and all of a sudden you wake up at 50 in your old job with a dusty old logbook somewhere with half a CPL in it.
You can live on beans and rice for a couple of years, you won’t be able to for six or seven.
Taking on some debt could have you into the RHS at 25 rather than 30 OP. May not seem life changing now but if you leave it a few years to do more saving, life will come along, you’ll have a kid, etc etc and all of a sudden you wake up at 50 in your old job with a dusty old logbook somewhere with half a CPL in it.
You can live on beans and rice for a couple of years, you won’t be able to for six or seven.
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Glad to hear it. Lucrative often will go hand in hand with being decent at them. Plus enjoying them is the Holy Grail.
A good proportion of people interviewing for turboprop commuter jobs are of course trying to use it as a stepping stone to that shiny Boeing or Airbus. The successful ones don't point it out, although I'm sure the interview panel know. Others find those kind of jobs perfect.
An aside; One of the best pieces of advice I've ever gotten from an experienced pilot is to not chase the flashy, glamourous airline job to the exception of all else. People often sacrifice their social life/life outside of their job, their happiness, and relationships in order to get this kinda job. They often end up being miserable in the long term; there's a surprisingly high rate of AIDS in pilots I've known (not that - Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome). Hard to have a meaningful relationship with your spouse when you're never home in the evenings or weekends, or the roster makes you exhausted when you are. You can never get time back.
Go for the best combination of lifestyle, happiness, pay, and location you can. Even if that means being paid £60k instead of £100k - even if this means flying those lower forms of life (#moresarcasm) such as small turboprops or bizjets. Seriously - it's never all about the airlines.
I think you will need to be optimistic to see your plan through.
They do, but IIRC the flight schools with those links are the more expensive integrated ones.
In the next 7-12 years it probably won't have changed all that much. I'm sure we won't have any more major disruptors such as Covid (2020), the credit crunch (2008), 9-11 (2001), the first Gulf War (1991), etc etc in the next decade...why would we?
If you believe some of the more gloomy/forward looking predictions, you will probably see single-crew airliners, and then pilotless airliners, within the next 20-30 years. Have a back up plan so you can pay your mortgage.
You need to find out -, and get in writing from an AME/the CAA - ASAP if this will allow you to get a Class 1 medical.
No worries. The wisdom and advice is free, and therefore worth what you are paying for it. Act accordingly!
Hope to see you there.
A good proportion of people interviewing for turboprop commuter jobs are of course trying to use it as a stepping stone to that shiny Boeing or Airbus. The successful ones don't point it out, although I'm sure the interview panel know. Others find those kind of jobs perfect.
An aside; One of the best pieces of advice I've ever gotten from an experienced pilot is to not chase the flashy, glamourous airline job to the exception of all else. People often sacrifice their social life/life outside of their job, their happiness, and relationships in order to get this kinda job. They often end up being miserable in the long term; there's a surprisingly high rate of AIDS in pilots I've known (not that - Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome). Hard to have a meaningful relationship with your spouse when you're never home in the evenings or weekends, or the roster makes you exhausted when you are. You can never get time back.
Go for the best combination of lifestyle, happiness, pay, and location you can. Even if that means being paid £60k instead of £100k - even if this means flying those lower forms of life (#moresarcasm) such as small turboprops or bizjets. Seriously - it's never all about the airlines.
I think you will need to be optimistic to see your plan through.
They do, but IIRC the flight schools with those links are the more expensive integrated ones.
In the next 7-12 years it probably won't have changed all that much. I'm sure we won't have any more major disruptors such as Covid (2020), the credit crunch (2008), 9-11 (2001), the first Gulf War (1991), etc etc in the next decade...why would we?
If you believe some of the more gloomy/forward looking predictions, you will probably see single-crew airliners, and then pilotless airliners, within the next 20-30 years. Have a back up plan so you can pay your mortgage.
You need to find out -, and get in writing from an AME/the CAA - ASAP if this will allow you to get a Class 1 medical.
No worries. The wisdom and advice is free, and therefore worth what you are paying for it. Act accordingly!
Hope to see you there.
). Still, every pilot I've met - Easyjet, Ryanair, glider, GA, whatever - grins from ear to ear once they start talking about aviation. I can tell that their jobs inspire real passion - hopefully I'll feel the same. As for being paid £60k - I think my eyes would pop out of my sockets at that amount of money! Definitely more money than anyone in my family has seen for a long time if ever.L3 Harris and CAE I believe now do modular courses as it's become quite trendy. I don't think CAE has any courses open at this particular moment but it's something I'll keep my eye on.
Back-up plan will probably be the lucrative yet enjoyable job as mentioned before.
How do I get that thing in writing from AME? Do I just pop one an email? I've just googled for AMEs around Edinburgh and there's a lot more than there was a year or two ago - 2 in Edinburgh alone. I'll see what contact details I can find and fingers crossed they write back.
Your advice may be free - but it's definitely worth a lot more than that
Thanks again!
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I've heard of the AIDS you're talking about - TV would have you believe every pilot is seemingly thrice divorced and a raging alcoholic (although I'm sure most of them are only once divorced ). Still, every pilot I've met - Easyjet, Ryanair, glider, GA, whatever - grins from ear to ear once they start talking about aviation. I can tell that their jobs inspire real passion - hopefully I'll feel the same. As for being paid £60k - I think my eyes would pop out of my sockets at that amount of money! Definitely more money than anyone in my family has seen for a long time if ever.
L3 Harris and CAE I believe now do modular courses as it's become quite trendy. I don't think CAE has any courses open at this particular moment but it's something I'll keep my eye on.
Back-up plan will probably be the lucrative yet enjoyable job as mentioned before.
How do I get that thing in writing from AME? Do I just pop one an email? I've just googled for AMEs around Edinburgh and there's a lot more than there was a year or two ago - 2 in Edinburgh alone. I'll see what contact details I can find and fingers crossed they write back.
Your advice may be free - but it's definitely worth a lot more than that Thanks again!
). Still, every pilot I've met - Easyjet, Ryanair, glider, GA, whatever - grins from ear to ear once they start talking about aviation. I can tell that their jobs inspire real passion - hopefully I'll feel the same. As for being paid £60k - I think my eyes would pop out of my sockets at that amount of money! Definitely more money than anyone in my family has seen for a long time if ever.L3 Harris and CAE I believe now do modular courses as it's become quite trendy. I don't think CAE has any courses open at this particular moment but it's something I'll keep my eye on.
Back-up plan will probably be the lucrative yet enjoyable job as mentioned before.
How do I get that thing in writing from AME? Do I just pop one an email? I've just googled for AMEs around Edinburgh and there's a lot more than there was a year or two ago - 2 in Edinburgh alone. I'll see what contact details I can find and fingers crossed they write back.
Your advice may be free - but it's definitely worth a lot more than that
Thanks again!At your age 60k I am sure seems like a vast wealth, however believe me when I say that money melts away quickly if you are not careful. On that sort of money too, you will be unpleasantly surprised how much goes to the tax man - your eyes will really pop out of your sockets then! Also consider that (often) an aviation career will mean your spouse is either part time or a stay at home parent - and again you’ll find that as a single income, saving for two pensions etc, you’ll be amazed how that money disappears. Then one day you come home and say the rumours of redundancies and base closure are true and you’ll either be unemployed or moving to another continent. This is a fantastic tool when you’re doing maths around income: Take home pay calculator (just use the tax code it suggests for now).
Aviation is my passion, I love my job, but I will tell you as soon as you have children (which is the most life affirming thing I have ever done) they become the priority - in my own view this is one of the pluses of a seniority based airline, as one is able to bid for more family friendly fleets or working options but you progress in seniority every year regardless. None of my retired colleagues have wished they had spent more time staring out the window on the way to Naples for the millionth time, but quite a number have wished they saw more of their children growing up.
I am not trying to put you off, I’m trying to temper some of your lack of exposure to the world of work - when pilots enter the work force, a bit of realism is always useful sooner rather than later, not least as it helps all of us realise better ts and cs.
My only advice - feel free to ignore - get a Class 1 before committing any time/effort/money towards your career ambitions. Only a small number of places do them - https://www.caa.co.uk/commercial-ind...l-certificate/
By all means get an opinion from AME as it may be a stopper but after that if you plan to go forward:
1. Get a Class 1
2. Get a Class 1
3. Get a Class 1
By all means get an opinion from AME as it may be a stopper but after that if you plan to go forward:
1. Get a Class 1
2. Get a Class 1
3. Get a Class 1
Professional Student
I've heard of the AIDS you're talking about - TV would have you believe every pilot is seemingly thrice divorced and a raging alcoholic (although I'm sure most of them are only once divorced ). Still, every pilot I've met - Easyjet, Ryanair, glider, GA, whatever - grins from ear to ear once they start talking about aviation. I can tell that their jobs inspire real passion - hopefully I'll feel the same.
How do I get that thing in writing from AME? Do I just pop one an email? I've just googled for AMEs around Edinburgh and there's a lot more than there was a year or two ago - 2 in Edinburgh alone. I'll see what contact details I can find and fingers crossed they write back.
You are after a Class 1 initial medical. This will tell you if a) your ear condition will allow you to have one - don't assume it will! and b) if there is anything else you don't know about, that won't allow you to have one.
You cannot be an airline/GA pilot without a Class 1. You should get one before you commit loads of £. You might as well go get it done now. There are multiple places you can do so at; see deltahotel's post, or the sticky post at the top of this forum section, or your good friend Google. Not all AMEs do Class 1s, and there are only a few places you can get your first Class 1 done at.
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Remember - at the end of the day, it will still be a job. No sane person gets up at 0230 every day to fly the same route for years out of passion. I have yet to find a bank manager that will let me pay the bills with passion, either.
Sure. But there's this funny little thing that happens, where your outgoings rise straight up to your ingoings (have you factored your student loan repayments into your plan, btw?).
Not sure about trendy, but quite possibly they are reacting to market forces. i.e. their super expensive integrated courses may not be pulling in the customers (i.e. students) now.
This is probably going to be hard or impossible to combine, especially with zero experience straight out of uni. Best of luck though, hope you find one.
Since you already (sort of) have something in writing from the CAA website, you'll more than likely just get that quote back in an email. But it won't prove anything, as you need to have a professional examine you, and your particular case.
You are after a Class 1 initial medical. This will tell you if a) your ear condition will allow you to have one - don't assume it will! and b) if there is anything else you don't know about, that won't allow you to have one.
You cannot be an airline/GA pilot without a Class 1. You should get one before you commit loads of £. You might as well go get it done now. There are multiple places you can do so at; see deltahotel's post, or the sticky post at the top of this forum section, or your good friend Google. Not all AMEs do Class 1s, and there are only a few places you can get your first Class 1 done at.
No guarantees....(in this advice, or in flying!)
Sure. But there's this funny little thing that happens, where your outgoings rise straight up to your ingoings (have you factored your student loan repayments into your plan, btw?).
Not sure about trendy, but quite possibly they are reacting to market forces. i.e. their super expensive integrated courses may not be pulling in the customers (i.e. students) now.
This is probably going to be hard or impossible to combine, especially with zero experience straight out of uni. Best of luck though, hope you find one.
Since you already (sort of) have something in writing from the CAA website, you'll more than likely just get that quote back in an email. But it won't prove anything, as you need to have a professional examine you, and your particular case.
You are after a Class 1 initial medical. This will tell you if a) your ear condition will allow you to have one - don't assume it will! and b) if there is anything else you don't know about, that won't allow you to have one.
You cannot be an airline/GA pilot without a Class 1. You should get one before you commit loads of £. You might as well go get it done now. There are multiple places you can do so at; see deltahotel's post, or the sticky post at the top of this forum section, or your good friend Google. Not all AMEs do Class 1s, and there are only a few places you can get your first Class 1 done at.
No guarantees....(in this advice, or in flying!)
I don't think I would be able to convince my mum to fork over the £ for a Class 1 just yet - however I am planning to apply for a gliding scholarship (if I do get in it will probably take place next summer as I'm not 16 yet) with the air cadets for which there is some sort of medical assessment and I will ask them then. Cheers.
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Hello again, I was up at RAF Lossiemouth with Cadets for a week so couldn't reply. Seeing the jets and talking to the pilots/recruiters has really inspired me to try and apply for a pilot role at RAF as soon as I leave school, the job has multiple benefits (not least flying Typhoons about Scotland!) including subsidised accommodation and food (so pretty much 0 outgoings), and also the RAF will pay for some part (80% was the number mentioned) of any degree/qualification/license you ask them for which if I'm not wrong includes PPL. I know that pilot roles are currently closed (and as you said there will be a bit of luck required if I'm to apply straight out of school) but the Navy currently have theirs open so I will submit an application there too.
I think getting in is doable (if not difficult) - by my calculations 0.3% of applicants are accepted into the role but the recruiter mentioned that you can prepare for the assessment as well - they do a computer based test for which there is a cheat sheet online and an iphone app to practice.
I think getting in is doable (if not difficult) - by my calculations 0.3% of applicants are accepted into the role but the recruiter mentioned that you can prepare for the assessment as well - they do a computer based test for which there is a cheat sheet online and an iphone app to practice.
Passing selection tests are likely to be a bit harder than the bits you can use a cheat sheet and an app to practise for.
I'm also thinking about possibly joining the RAF whether as a pilot or not - possible as some other kind of aircrew/groundcrew (you can start in an engineering role and they will 'internally commission' you to an engineering officer) then PPL on the side as mentioned. I think ATC would be fun but I'd also love to get hands-on with the jets.
The RAF training pipeline is a delayed mess, and it's not getting any better. Aircrew trainees have spent years holding (i.e. not flying) recently.
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Hi Mate,
Id definitely advise a job in the industry before starting ATPLs. I worked as a dispatcher for a well known holiday airline for a year before joining my ATO on an integrated course. The life skills it gives you, as well as helping ATPL studies is invaluable, plus you can make some amazing contacts for when the time comes to apply for jobs.
On the modular route, I wouldn't worry about getting a job because airlines can't afford to be picky anymore. From my ATO numerous modular students have been placed with DHL, TUI, easyJet and the like. Plus now with the BA NQPP you have even more options.
Hope this helps!
Id definitely advise a job in the industry before starting ATPLs. I worked as a dispatcher for a well known holiday airline for a year before joining my ATO on an integrated course. The life skills it gives you, as well as helping ATPL studies is invaluable, plus you can make some amazing contacts for when the time comes to apply for jobs.
On the modular route, I wouldn't worry about getting a job because airlines can't afford to be picky anymore. From my ATO numerous modular students have been placed with DHL, TUI, easyJet and the like. Plus now with the BA NQPP you have even more options.
Hope this helps!
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Questions on Funding, Jobs, Licenses and more...
Hello everyone,
Having read a good few threads in the "wannabes" forum, none of them quite matched my situation so I decided to make my own thread.
[Insert here, the usual paragraph about how becoming a pilot has always been my dream, passion, etc, etc. It's all been said before]
So, I've decided to consult the unquestionable hivemind that is PPRuNe on how to proceed with life and the choices I should make, as I'm sure all sane people do. A bit about me first, currently 18, awaiting A-Level results, London based, living with parents, so in short expenses are... non-existent. Flight school is of course, expensive, but not completely unachievable, from the research I've done the most logical path to take is to get a job (preferably aviation focussed from what I've heard) save a decent chunk of cash, build up a credit history, get a loan for the rest, go modular because integrated is the spawn of Satan and live laugh love my way into the RHS of an airliner, but life isn't that simple is it? To make this easier for everyone I'll split this into a few primary questions:
1) Uni or no Uni? Now of course going to Uni is a great way to get better earning potential and also acts as a "Plan B", but I just can't see myself spending approx. 3 years doing a course which isn't my end goal career, only to end up with a mountain of debt and somewhat questionable job prospects.
2) Is saving while working a 22-25k job a realistic prospect? Doing some basic calculations, taking an estimate of £1,700 post-tax monthly income and saving the majority of that, let's say £1,300 that makes £15,600 per year and dividing that by the average cost of a modular programme, 60-70k, means I'd be purely saving for 4ish years, seems like a while, doesn't it?
3) Loans - Now taking out a loan sounds like an obvious way to speed up the process, but I absolutely hate the idea of having debt hanging over my head and putting extra pressure on succeeding, etc. What would happen if training doesn't work out in the end and I'm stuck with it?
4) Modular/Integrated for full-time training - Obviously, the big selling point of modular is the flexibility of being able to work alongside studying (and the hefty discount), however, I'd much rather prefer to focus on one thing at a time and get it over and done with ASAP. How does the workload compare between the two, e.g., is integrated a lot more demanding compared to modular? Also, I'd assume airlines prefer a continuous training record from a single organisation as opposed to something cobbled together from multiple ATOs.
5) Job prospects - I've seen a lot of conflicting info about this. How exactly does getting a job after obtaining your fATPL work? I've heard of people jumping straight into the RHS of an airliner and absolute horror stories of those who find no job whatsoever for years on end. A basic glance at most airlines' careers pages shows you need to have some decent time in a commercial operation or on type, which seems like a bit of a catch-22. The phrase "Cadet programme" comes into play here, how does that work?
6) EASA/UK licenses - Due to the joys of Brexit, from my understanding, UK CAA license holders are only allowed to fly G-Reg aircraft which seems extremely limiting since the likes of RYR UK / WZZ UK are quite small operations compared to their EU counterparts. Would getting both licenses be logical or just an extra bit of workload for little reward, what about adding it on later if needs be? (I also have EU Citizenship if that plays a part, but would obviously be aiming for UK bases)
7) Sponsored programmes...Do they even exist?
8) Now this might seem like the most basic of basic questions but how hard is the actual training? Now I'm no genius, but I'm not absolutely inept either just...very average (maths does slightly horrify me though), any figures on dropout rate or personal experience?
9) When (If) you do manage to get a job I assume the airline assigns time to train you up on their SOPs, etc, what does that onboarding process look like?
10) Last one I promise, can anyone give me a quick and dirty guide on how modular is structured? Obviously, you start by getting your PPL and eventually finish with a CPL (which from my understanding is the same as an fATPL if you complete the ATPL theory. As you can tell I'm slightly confused by it) but what are the steps in between? Also, is this different from the basic structure of integrated i.e. the order in which you earn your licenses?
Phew... that's a lot more than I expected to write and probably a lot more than anyone is willing to answer, so regardless of if you answer one, all, or none at all, any advice is welcome. Thanks in advance.
Having read a good few threads in the "wannabes" forum, none of them quite matched my situation so I decided to make my own thread.
[Insert here, the usual paragraph about how becoming a pilot has always been my dream, passion, etc, etc. It's all been said before]
So, I've decided to consult the unquestionable hivemind that is PPRuNe on how to proceed with life and the choices I should make, as I'm sure all sane people do. A bit about me first, currently 18, awaiting A-Level results, London based, living with parents, so in short expenses are... non-existent. Flight school is of course, expensive, but not completely unachievable, from the research I've done the most logical path to take is to get a job (preferably aviation focussed from what I've heard) save a decent chunk of cash, build up a credit history, get a loan for the rest, go modular because integrated is the spawn of Satan and live laugh love my way into the RHS of an airliner, but life isn't that simple is it? To make this easier for everyone I'll split this into a few primary questions:
1) Uni or no Uni? Now of course going to Uni is a great way to get better earning potential and also acts as a "Plan B", but I just can't see myself spending approx. 3 years doing a course which isn't my end goal career, only to end up with a mountain of debt and somewhat questionable job prospects.
2) Is saving while working a 22-25k job a realistic prospect? Doing some basic calculations, taking an estimate of £1,700 post-tax monthly income and saving the majority of that, let's say £1,300 that makes £15,600 per year and dividing that by the average cost of a modular programme, 60-70k, means I'd be purely saving for 4ish years, seems like a while, doesn't it?
3) Loans - Now taking out a loan sounds like an obvious way to speed up the process, but I absolutely hate the idea of having debt hanging over my head and putting extra pressure on succeeding, etc. What would happen if training doesn't work out in the end and I'm stuck with it?
4) Modular/Integrated for full-time training - Obviously, the big selling point of modular is the flexibility of being able to work alongside studying (and the hefty discount), however, I'd much rather prefer to focus on one thing at a time and get it over and done with ASAP. How does the workload compare between the two, e.g., is integrated a lot more demanding compared to modular? Also, I'd assume airlines prefer a continuous training record from a single organisation as opposed to something cobbled together from multiple ATOs.
5) Job prospects - I've seen a lot of conflicting info about this. How exactly does getting a job after obtaining your fATPL work? I've heard of people jumping straight into the RHS of an airliner and absolute horror stories of those who find no job whatsoever for years on end. A basic glance at most airlines' careers pages shows you need to have some decent time in a commercial operation or on type, which seems like a bit of a catch-22. The phrase "Cadet programme" comes into play here, how does that work?
6) EASA/UK licenses - Due to the joys of Brexit, from my understanding, UK CAA license holders are only allowed to fly G-Reg aircraft which seems extremely limiting since the likes of RYR UK / WZZ UK are quite small operations compared to their EU counterparts. Would getting both licenses be logical or just an extra bit of workload for little reward, what about adding it on later if needs be? (I also have EU Citizenship if that plays a part, but would obviously be aiming for UK bases)
7) Sponsored programmes...Do they even exist?
8) Now this might seem like the most basic of basic questions but how hard is the actual training? Now I'm no genius, but I'm not absolutely inept either just...very average (maths does slightly horrify me though), any figures on dropout rate or personal experience?
9) When (If) you do manage to get a job I assume the airline assigns time to train you up on their SOPs, etc, what does that onboarding process look like?
10) Last one I promise, can anyone give me a quick and dirty guide on how modular is structured? Obviously, you start by getting your PPL and eventually finish with a CPL (which from my understanding is the same as an fATPL if you complete the ATPL theory. As you can tell I'm slightly confused by it) but what are the steps in between? Also, is this different from the basic structure of integrated i.e. the order in which you earn your licenses?
Phew... that's a lot more than I expected to write and probably a lot more than anyone is willing to answer, so regardless of if you answer one, all, or none at all, any advice is welcome. Thanks in advance.
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No worries. Go for it. Bear in mind, it is INCREDIBLY competitive, more so than I think you know. You will be up against super high achievers who have lived and breathed wanting to be RAF aircrew since primary school (probably). It is doable, but it is also very, very hard. There are very few places for lots and lots of wannabes.
Passing selection tests are likely to be a bit harder than the bits you can use a cheat sheet and an app to practise for.
Sounds like a good plan.
No one joins the RAF as aircrew because of the pay. This is not a motivating factor. Do not mention "I want to join the RAF cos you pay for living expenses," in any interview. Remember - the recruiters see hundreds of wannabe pilots every year (when recruitment is open). They will easily be able to tell what your motivations for joining are. If they realise you're joining up to get your training paid for, you will not be getting in.
Do your research (the other parts of PPrune are a good place to start). You can expect to take years from joining up to actually getting into a jet. You are talking about the officer training. This is seperate from aircrew flight training. The RAF will expect you to be an officer before you're a pilot.
The RAF training pipeline is a delayed mess, and it's not getting any better. Aircrew trainees have spent years holding (i.e. not flying) recently.
Good move; a gliding scholarship is a good move no matter which route you take later. Go for it.
Ok. It doesn't count for a class one though; you can't substitute something else for it. Before you spend any money on (civilian) flight training, get a class one. Worth finding out if you can pass RAF/RN aircrew medical standards now though.
Passing selection tests are likely to be a bit harder than the bits you can use a cheat sheet and an app to practise for.
Sounds like a good plan.
No one joins the RAF as aircrew because of the pay. This is not a motivating factor. Do not mention "I want to join the RAF cos you pay for living expenses," in any interview. Remember - the recruiters see hundreds of wannabe pilots every year (when recruitment is open). They will easily be able to tell what your motivations for joining are. If they realise you're joining up to get your training paid for, you will not be getting in.
Do your research (the other parts of PPrune are a good place to start). You can expect to take years from joining up to actually getting into a jet. You are talking about the officer training. This is seperate from aircrew flight training. The RAF will expect you to be an officer before you're a pilot.
The RAF training pipeline is a delayed mess, and it's not getting any better. Aircrew trainees have spent years holding (i.e. not flying) recently.
Good move; a gliding scholarship is a good move no matter which route you take later. Go for it.
Ok. It doesn't count for a class one though; you can't substitute something else for it. Before you spend any money on (civilian) flight training, get a class one. Worth finding out if you can pass RAF/RN aircrew medical standards now though.
If my main motivation was pay, I'd go and sell cars
My biggest motivation personally would be that I love flying and have a passion for aviation, and I think that RAF is a good way to do my duty to my country and fly at the same time.Yeah, I've heard that it takes up to 2 years to go do further training after your basic flying and that the RAF is a bureaucratic mess. Won't stop me though.
I was just going to get an opinion before sinking money into a class 1 to see if it's a big deal (which I don't see it being, but anything can happen). RAF medical looks all fine, just need to work on the fitness (I can do the pushups and situps fine but the 1.5m run needs worked on. I've improved over the past few days though, I started at 15 minutes 30 and my time today was 13 minutes 50 which is not nearly enough but I'll just have to keep training). RN might be more difficult, I'll have a look later.
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Hi Mate,
Id definitely advise a job in the industry before starting ATPLs. I worked as a dispatcher for a well known holiday airline for a year before joining my ATO on an integrated course. The life skills it gives you, as well as helping ATPL studies is invaluable, plus you can make some amazing contacts for when the time comes to apply for jobs.
On the modular route, I wouldn't worry about getting a job because airlines can't afford to be picky anymore. From my ATO numerous modular students have been placed with DHL, TUI, easyJet and the like. Plus now with the BA NQPP you have even more options.
Hope this helps!
Id definitely advise a job in the industry before starting ATPLs. I worked as a dispatcher for a well known holiday airline for a year before joining my ATO on an integrated course. The life skills it gives you, as well as helping ATPL studies is invaluable, plus you can make some amazing contacts for when the time comes to apply for jobs.
On the modular route, I wouldn't worry about getting a job because airlines can't afford to be picky anymore. From my ATO numerous modular students have been placed with DHL, TUI, easyJet and the like. Plus now with the BA NQPP you have even more options.
Hope this helps!