Keilir Aviation Academy ?

[PaulTobiasStanding]

I'm hoping this won't be marked as having been answered specifically before (have tried reading sticky threads etc.).

I'll try and make this snappy;

-32 years old.
-Think my eyesight JUST falls within limits but I'll get class 1 medical before doing anything.
-Hold a EASA PPL(A) Since May but only a handful of post test hours (5).

I've tried many time and will continue to apply to CTC wings cadet schemes, but I understand due to my age and lack of university degree I stand very little chance of getting in. Also All schemes seem to cost somewhere between £90,000 - £100,000 not including the money you would need to live on for 2 years. Of course it seems if you could get through this that likelihood of employment is somewhere in the high 90%.

Should I consider doing the "Integrated Professional Pilot Program" at Keilir Acadamy ? The price being € 62,990, translates to £44,390 if I could get a loan in the UK.

What are the downsides ?

Do you come out with far fewer hours than the CTC qualification?
Are you far less likely to actually gain employment due to it not being CTC ?

The school itself from the website looks very good and have seen a few really good comments about the school itself.

Any advice much appreciated, even the likely "give up you haven't got a chance of succeeding".

Paul

[MattC123]

From the research I've done into airline selection and recruitment it seems that the most important thing to consider with flight training organisations (and this is perhaps the added value that enables org. such as CAE. CTC, FTE etc to set such high fees) is the connections they have established with airlines.

Many airlines have exclusive agreements with certain FTOs that allows them to hand pick graduates and therefore don't really consider people trained at other providers. These contracts simply don't exist at many other schools so just be a bit wary :-)

Best of luck!

[PaulTobiasStanding]

MattC123,

Thanks for the reply, this is what I had feared ! Seems unfair but what can one do ?

Paul

[MattC123]

Yes it's a great shame as the savings are huge. One option however is the modular route through schools such as Bournemouth Commercial Flight Training which has links with Flybe.

I just had a quick look at the pricing and it seems to be £28,000 for ATPL ground school, CPL, MEP, IR and MCC (as a package). The hour building stage is another ~£15,000. Could be worth a look?

Not trying to take the attention away from your original question about KAA by the way... Just adding to the points I made in the previous post!

Matt

[Reverserbucket]

"Of course it seems if you could get through this that likelihood of employment is somewhere in the high 90%."

Is that really the case? Seems rather high even for an ATO with airline contracts. There are other less expensive options as well and I don't really think age is that much of a barrier at 32. Have you considered modular over integrated for example as with a PPL you have already started down the path so to speak?

I must confess to never having heard of Keilir before but I've looked at their website now and it looks like a very interesting place to fly. I have worked with Icelandic aviators and find them to be extremely professional, decent and very nice people.

You've identified that your eyesight might be an obstacle and you say you'll get a Class 1. Bear in mind that the state of issuance of your medical will have a bearing on eventual licence issue so you may want to consider researching that in more depth but I would consider that a small investment to make before moving forward. Good Luck.


Edited to say I see the previous poster has already suggested Modular.

[PaulTobiasStanding]

Mattc123-

Thanks for the suggestion of Bournemouth, actually seems like a very good option and I didn't realise it could work out that cheap in the UK (relative cheapness anyway).

And as for moving away from the original post, I probably should have come up with a better title but it was where I was up to with my attempt at research.

Reverserbucket -

The high 90% figure comes from CTC themselves

Airline Placement | CTC Aviation

In your opinion should I be taking that with a pinch (or more) of salt?

Also what did you mean by

"Bear in mind that the state of issuance of your medical will have a bearing on eventual licence issue so you may want to consider researching that in more depth"?

You think I should get the medical ideally in the country where I intend to try for the licence itself?

Anyway thanks both for your comments, the volume of information on different paths to flight deck is a little overwhelming.

Paul

[Alex Whittingham]

The 98% needs to be read in the context of:

"Subject to graduates achieving minimum CTC WINGS standards and meeting specific Airline Partner entry criteria. 98% of our CTC WINGS graduates are placed with our Airline Partners."

on this page. If you can figure out what that means let me know. It seems to say that 98% of the people the airline would hire are hired. One wonders what the other 2% did wrong?

[PaulTobiasStanding]

Thanks Alex,

That's a bit of a reality check then, do you think the 2% is due to there not being enough actual jobs available for the newly qualified pilots?

Just checked out the ctc page again and it does say

"*98% of our CTC WINGS graduates are placed by us with our Airline Partners either directly into employment or through CTC FLEXICREW."

Which would appear to be slightly more positive. However it looks like the flexicrew route would mean emptying your pockets of loose change again?

Paul

[Alex Whittingham]

I think that, if you challenged them, the 98% statement would always be referred back to the qualifier on the web page I quoted. It certainly is not the same as saying '98% of the pilots that start with us are placed in airline jobs' and probably includes (by some deft semantic twiddling) pilots who find their own jobs with Ryanair etc.

There is no doubt that CTC have very good routes through to the airlines. To my mind the problem is the price they charge and consequently the debt that graduates carry. CTC were making a profit when they charged £60K for the Wings course, the only way I can see they can justify the current pricing is that the market will support it, supply and demand, and of course all that expensive marketing has to be paid for. If you look around you will find integrated courses for less than £60K in the UK, and even less than €60K in Europe. Ultimately you have to make a call whether you think the extra price is worth the extra debt, and that you are reasonably certain that the jobs that are there today will still be there in 18 months to 2 years when you hit the market.

I'm a strong advocate of the modular route, but it may be that my position makes me biased. You can train to the equivalent licence standard on modular courses for around £45K to £65K depending on the choices you make including MCC/JOC and upset training, and you can stay in work for most/all of your training. BCFT are well thought of in the industry, a good school.

[MattC123]

Just looking for an answer to a question about the type of license offered at Keilir.

I've been having a look at the FTO and it looks very interesting. I really like Iceland after visiting previously and would love to spend some more time there.

I'm aware of the aforementioned drawbacks in regards to the potential lack of links with airlines upon graduation, however, what are the implications of license gained on completion of the course?

Is the license the same as is required in the UK/EU? It claims so on the website however I'm just seeking insight/clarification.

Cheers

[MattC123]

Thank you, MAWEA.

I was under the impression that an EASA license was European-wide as opposed to being country specific. Am I incorrect?

So would it be right to say that each country issues its own license...? ie if I got an 'Icelandic EASA license', in order to work in the UK for a UK airline I would need to convert to a 'UK EASA license' ?

Thanks again.