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New PPL's who never fly again

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Old 16th Jan 2015, 23:54
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Hire a plane (suggest the familiar 152) for a couple of hours (prob after a checkflight), think of somewhere different to fly to similar to what you've experienced before but not somewhere you've visited before and JFDI.

Once the nosewheel is off the ground the fears will disappear as you get down to problem solving. Once on the ground the other end you will either think (a) that was easy, what was the concern or (b) stuffed up this that or the other, how do I stop that ? Either way you have to fly back...

And once down you'll be reaching for the diary for the next booking
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 00:00
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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And here's me thinking Victor Meldew was a fictional creation....

To the OP, reducing your flying now is a bad move from a skills perspective. At your stage, you really need practice and any one of the paths you mention will give you that. If you get into a arrangement which allows you to participate in the operational and social side of flying, then find you still want to move on, do so with good grace. My own recollection is that flying some long trips (either LH or RH seat) with experienced pilots helped greatly.

30 years later I'm still flying, and have enjoyed using my PPL all over the world. It's like anything worthwhile, though, in that commitment and initiative are needed. That's doesn't seem to stand in the way of the enjoyment, and I see the same silly grin on the faces of all pilots, whatever they emerge from when it's time to go home.
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 00:08
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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I'm with posts 2,3 and 4 - in many cases it's confidence.

When you're training the instructor in effect makes the final judgement on the weather, keeps an eye on your planning, etc. You're in a routine - goals are set, the aircraft is booked, so you turn up regularly and keep going. Even if you feel nervous your instructor gives you confidence.

Once the PPL is passed you have to make the effort to keep going and make your own judgements. The instructors will be looking after new students (though in a good school they'll still be encouraging). It's easy to find excuses not to go.

Though it's good to do a few flights with experienced pilots, if you do it too much you can end up relying on them and so you're no better off. The best thing is to find a flying buddy at roughly your own level. You then get into a routine of planning and going flying. If you can't do that, set yourself a simple target - not too difficult as it needs to be easily achieved. Make sure you do achieve it and then set another one, just a bit harder, and keep going.

Once you've increased your hours, do another qualification - night flying, tailwheel or IMC (or whatever it is). Even if you don't use it, you'll have widened your experience.

Otherwise I've come across people who've dropped out because they underestimated the cost/financial circumstances changed or because they'd set a target to achieve a PPL and didn't really want to carry on.

Personally I just love flying

Last edited by Viola; 17th Jan 2015 at 00:21. Reason: added extra qualification
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 00:10
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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From the professional side this has destroyed aviation as a profession due to flooding the industry with pilots, and from the amateur side it constantly produces a lot of people who spend a lot of money for what?? a cheap $hit coloured book.
Can't speak for the professional side but I didn't spend a lot of money for a cheap **** coloured book. I want to fly, I enjoy flying. To fly you need a license. Why would I spend any money at all on flying if I didn't enjoy it?

I don't like tennis, I have no interest in it at all; therefore according to your argument I should go to a tennis club and spend a wedge of money to learn to play tennis which I would hate and then as soon as I have passed an imaginary 'tennis exam' I should pack it in and tell everyone what a waste of time it was and how I ended up with a cheap, **** looking 'tennis exam' diploma.

There is no logic to what you are saying unless you are some kind of masochist (which I accept, this is 2015 and we should embrace all) who enjoys doing stuff that you don't enjoy doing.
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 07:05
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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I got my PPL in 1964 - and stopped flying in early 1965. I enjoyed flying but couldn't afford it.
I got my PPL back in March 1987, and have flown regularly since. Over 1970 hours solo. The original licence was worth getting for the hours it saved me later.
First, fly enough to feel relaxed in the plane. Then find what you can afford and enjoy. I've been in a Jodel DR1050 Group for over 25 years. £60 per tach hour, £50 per month, and the £1600 (1990) share is now worth £2200.

Last edited by Maoraigh1; 17th Jan 2015 at 07:06. Reason: spelling
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 22:11
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Not counting professional pilots obviously who all to a man seem to hate it.
Whilst many of us do lose sight of why we started flying in the first place, and PJ sounds like a prime example of this, there are others professional pilots who DO actually continue flying because we enjoy it, I have kept my instructors ticket valid for the last 30+ years for no other reason!
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 22:45
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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FoxMoth

I agree I fly professionally because I enjoy it the day I don't enjoy it will be the day to hang up the spurs.

Obviously there are times you wonder why the hell you are doing this? a load of hassle,problems, things going wrong etc but other days you realise why you continue to fly?

before 911 I always used to go up front and spend time with the crew! I remember two contrasts! One captain could not remember the last time he flew a GA aircraft!

Another Captain when I asked what he did for fun pulled out a picture of a Pitts aerobatic machine from his wallet and proudly said that this was his baby ))
He said he flew aerobatics in his time off

a true lover of his trade and flying

Pace
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 01:35
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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So I was one of those statistics for 23 years.....

My Story (sorry, wall of text!)

Got my licence in 1987 thanks to a flying scholarship from the Air Cadets aged 18.

Due to a lack of "A" levels and a very minor medical issue that would have probably stopped me flying fast jets, my thoughts of going silly speeds for the RAF faded. Not having the £28k available to get myself on the BA Ab Initio scheme at that time also stopped me from pursuing a career in commercial aviation.

Kept my licence going (just) for 3 years flying club aircraft; just scraping in my (at that time) 6hrs per year doing friends and family local flights.. not even landing away (lack of confidence).. and some of that 6 hrs per year was of course check circuits with a club instructor due to the 30-day rule.

After those 3 years in September 1990 I bought my first property, with mortgage, and was immediately broke ... at least broke enough to not be able to fly.

My passion for flying never went away but went on hold.

Every year I would ask myself... "can I afford to go flying?" and every year I answered either a flat out "no" or "well maybe, but not much and there are other things I could/should spend the money on".

Then almost 23 years to the day since the last time I was PIC, I suprosed myself by answering "yes, actually I can, I want to and I will".

I went back to the flying club I originally trained with (one of only 3 clubs at the airport I flew from tht was still going out of about 8), got myself an instructor and took the plunge (hmmm.. bad expression here I guess!).

Since September 2013 I have:
- regained my licence. (CofE, whatever )
- bought into a group aircraft
- done my IMC / IR(R) rating
- completed my night rating
- flown over 130 hours

Yup it cost me a lot of money, but boy have I had an excellent time and I fully intend to continue.

Of all the things I've done aviation-wise in the last 16 months, buying into a good group aircraft with at least one person that I fly with regularly has got to be the best decision I ever made.

He is a far more experienced pilot than me and I am learning all the time (I guess we all are really)... We go to airfields I'd never even heard of before and each time I visit a new airfield I learn something new (even if it's just their local procedures/noise abatement!).

I even had enough confidence to hire an aircraft whilst on holiday in Crete and after a check-flight with the school's instructor flew my wife around the Eastern hald of the isalnd one day in our first week and flew from Crete to Santorini in our second week... fantastic adventure.

Pleasure flying means different things to different people, but if I hadn't bought into the group aircraft I would probably already be getting bored with doing friends and family locals (and the odd away-day).

My general impression is that between 1987 and today GA activity has slimmed-down, diversified (many more microlights) and spread out from the licensed areodrome hubs to the farm strips (although I still fly from a licensed, "traditional", airfield).

But GA is definitely not dead yet and I now have many aviation friends of all ages, experince, aircraft types, airfields etc etc. But it does cost money and you need to think about how best to spend what you've got.

Each time I fly I can't help but realise how privileged it is to see the world from a different perspective.... so much so that I now volunteer for the Air Cadets to hoepfully give back something to an organisation that provided me the opportunity in the first place.

Sadly though, another of the adult volunteers at my Air Cadet Squadron who passed his PPL aged 23 last year has just had to take the tough decision to stop flying because he wanted to put the money towards his house-buying deposit fund and was struggling to keep interested doing friends and family local trips with the odd instructor circuit due to the 30-day rule at his club....

My comment to him.... "just wait 23 years and you'll be back!"
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 07:48
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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I NEVER regarded a light aircraft and a PPL as suitable for a means of transport in the UK. I never wanted to fly myself in IMC, nor fly at night.
The sheer inconvenience of not having my car available at a destination field put severe dampers on XC. My Qualifying Cross Country flight was, for a long time the longest flight that I had made.

I did fly taildraggers, finding spamcans intensely boring.

I acquired a share in an aerobatic Pilatus B-4 glider, and my hours increased dramatically every summer, to overtake my power hours.
I think the best flying fun I had was as a Civilian Gliding Instructor with an ATC VGS. It was structured, different tasks (I enjoyed winch driving), and we were flying Sedburghs and Cadet Mk3s with open cockpits...and in an excellent social context. Happy days.

I can understand why new(ish) PPLs lose interest.
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 08:41
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Many discussion bits meandering around here ... let reflect on the original crucial point - lack of confidence.
If lack of confidence is not overcome, why?

This was never an issue for me, because when I was doing PPL, I got to know quite a few pilots as friends. They took me to place, I would never be gone to without a small plane. I still remember great trips, where one of them called me Saturday morning after weather for the weekend was there and we would fly to a place I had not thought of. It is amazing in Europe which locations are nearby by means of a light aircraft, where you would never drive by car! Yes, you have times where you almost piss your pants, but in the right crowd it does not matter.

Always keep in mind (although nowadays in rotten Europe this wisdom seem to be politically and ideologically forced driven to the back of the mind): The greatest personal achievement is behind the biggest fear and concern.
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 09:23
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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I think for me the reason for lack of confidence at 18 when I passed my PPL was that I had done all of the training in an intense one-month period - which seemed great at the time, but on reflection it did not allow me really socialise with the other pilots at the flying club very much.

Because of this I didn't really get to know any very well to be able to go flying with them afterwards.
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 09:27
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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I think we all probably go through times when we think of chucking it in.

i remember when I started flying i came into flying from car racing which I gave up when I lost my sponsor.
i had little money back then and originally found flying quite tame in comparison!

i decided to just go to solo stage when I could say I had flown a circuit in an aircraft by myself and then I would chuck it in.
I did the solo and the next goal was the PPL and then who knows?

i got the PPL and still with little money and other commitments went through the post PPL stage of flying friends and family around the local area on short trips which was all I could afford playing out the top gun image

then that became boring and expensive.

Shared trips with pilot friends broadened the horizon and brought back the interest as we were visiting new places further afield and that lead to a new challenge the IMCR.

i was then offered cheap flying in a Mooney by the owner friend and all was hunky Dory flying a complex and quick retractable until something happened which seriously made me nearly give up.
my friend the owner crashed it into a mountain killing himself and his passenger and for weeks I had no interest in flying to the point of wanting to give it up.

Somehow the interest came back and I moved onto new challenges in twins and eventually in Jets where I now fly as a captain.

It is important that you have goals and new challenges and accept that it is normal to find your interest wain

I have some fabulous memories especially in the twins and jets experienced things very few do! seen places very few do, Been amazed at some of the views and sometimes scared to bits.

How many have left Iceland at Dawn and landed in Greenland at Dawn with the sun not moving the whole way or landed into Dallas at the dead of night with all the city lights.

How many have taken off from India into a Monsoon where there were so many flashes that the sky was permanent day.
how many have landed in the middle of Saudi at a military base with 2000 meters in dust changing in seconds as the jet flared to land to 100 meters in a sand storm to the point that I had to shut down on the runway.

All the different challenges and cultures you see flying through Africa and many more which leave memories which are priceless so many memories.But I have been lucky.

But you must always move forwards as nothing in life is static and if it is static it becomes boring and life has a habit of changing that for you for better or worse

I remember reading a theory about memory pointers in life. I bet you cannot remember what you did on March the 22nd 3 years ago? You will remember pointers like weddings, Births and funerals or specific things which are memory pointers but on the whole each day runs into another day quickly forgotten.

This theory was that the more pointers you had the more rich and varied your life would be. Also remember that pointers can be bad events or memories too.

flying is like that! Many flights we do we cannot remember but specific flights or pointer flights we do so fill your flying with as many pointers as you can and if they are not there create them hopefully NOT the bad ones

Pace

Last edited by Pace; 18th Jan 2015 at 10:46.
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 18:37
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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I got my PPL in 1964
By my maths that makes you at least in your 90's. Well done you, I hope I'm still flying at that age.
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 19:14
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Born 1941. PPL at age 23. Regained in1987 at age 46. Hope to still have EASA Class 2 in 2031.
This year is still 2015 so not quite ?? yet. I'll leave the maths problem to Thing.
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 19:39
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Apologies, I've never been good at sums.
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 19:40
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Maoraigh1 -( sounds a bit Irish, with that spelling!)

Dear me. people running out of money, getting bored, losing confidence, quit flying. Well, I was born in Jan. 1933, and didn't climb into a glider until I was 50, when my first husband went off with another woman....

Best thing I ever did. Ever since 1983, belonging to a gliding club, going through the training to solo in 3 months, and then cross country, and then flying in Wales, Scotland, French Alps, and sitting around in the gliding club yakking....doing my stint of helping at the launchpoint, becoming an instructor, translating the gliding into the PPL with only 18 hours needed to do that, and then becoming tug pilot, each step another challenge. Never forgot the elation of that first solo, of being able to say I am a pilot! love it!.

Sensibly, I now fly with a safety pilot, and this very day, 18 January, 2015, when the fog finally cleared, took an airtow to 2,000', the air smooth as silk, seemed to be gently rising everywhere. That poor instructor sat in the front seat and never protested, endured my takeoff, 2 spins, 3 negative gravity humpty bumps, and my thoughtful circuit, followed by a precision landing exactly where planned.....havn't lost it yet, ho ho! and my only problem is climbing out when its over, knees a bit creaky. Then back to the nice warm clubhouse, and more gossip. Plans for next summer. I am still able to say in my heart I am a pilot. And I am exceedingly proud of that.
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 19:43
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Ah, hang on I'm getting Mary and Maoraigh mixed up, sorry Maoraigh. Still Mary, flying in your 80's, got to be good. Pal of mine is 77 and still a display pilot.
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 08:20
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Threads like this remind me why there will always be GA...people love it!
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 12:15
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I got my PPL in 1978 (silver C conversion from gliding) so that I could become a tug pilot & SLMG instructor - only needed 5 hours of circuit bashing & GFT etc to get the licenses, then my confidence took a pounding the first time I set off on my first X-country in a powered aircraft, I rapidly became "unsure of my position" (navigating in a slow moving glider was so much easier in those days) & had to revert to getting a fix off D & D, seldom have I been so embarrassed & nearly gave up at that point.
Took some navigation lessons & still fly every weekend that I'm able to resulting in many 100s of hours towing gliders & a few less flying tourers in some beautiful parts of the world (Hawaii was probably the most memorable) & having fun looking around the UK, soaring amongst the clouds & realising that we live in a truly green & pleasant land.
Why do I do it? I love that short lived freedom & the people within the flying world, we are a special & very lucky bunch!
Will I ever give flying up? Not as long as my heart is still beating, yes it can be darned frustrating, even frightening at times but there's nowt else like it
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 21:53
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As an instructor at a pretty elitist military establishment I had a number of students quit immediately on passing the course. All of them offered the explanation that they knew it was not for them, but they were dammed if they we going to quit before they had passed. It's called human nature and it will account for some (but not all) of the statistics.

also, enjoyed your post Mary.
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