Seaplane landings England legal?
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Aircraft operations on Water
Dear All,
Here is the latest CAA word on operations of aircraft on water.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP%201...Aerodromes.pdf
Having read it a couple of times it does not exclude or prohibit operations but the 440 odd pages does need a lot of reading. As a previous post stated the UK guru on this subject is David West of Loch Lomond.
My contribution to this thread is based on a combination of inland canoeing, floatplane rating and hovercraft pilot experience. Every trip should be heavily planned and prepared whilst exercising the maximum amount of courtesy possible.
In my View
1) As long as you do not trespass on any banks of a waterway, river or lake that is privately owned it is legal to navigate that body of water.
In addition to normal flight planning many additional factors apply to water operations. This includes being able to identify public access points near the place of landing. I always undertake a fly past and check there are no persons vessels or debris in the water and that landing and take off runs are as straight as possible and into wind and there is a car park or road nearby.
As we all know you can never prepare enough and one of my stories is not highlighting the close proximity of a minefield. Even in a hovercraft at 50 knots a minefield is a minefield.
On a more cultural note I think it is a national shame that of the 23 odd water aerodromes in the UK there is only one left.
Regards
Here is the latest CAA word on operations of aircraft on water.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP%201...Aerodromes.pdf
Having read it a couple of times it does not exclude or prohibit operations but the 440 odd pages does need a lot of reading. As a previous post stated the UK guru on this subject is David West of Loch Lomond.
My contribution to this thread is based on a combination of inland canoeing, floatplane rating and hovercraft pilot experience. Every trip should be heavily planned and prepared whilst exercising the maximum amount of courtesy possible.
In my View
1) As long as you do not trespass on any banks of a waterway, river or lake that is privately owned it is legal to navigate that body of water.
In addition to normal flight planning many additional factors apply to water operations. This includes being able to identify public access points near the place of landing. I always undertake a fly past and check there are no persons vessels or debris in the water and that landing and take off runs are as straight as possible and into wind and there is a car park or road nearby.
As we all know you can never prepare enough and one of my stories is not highlighting the close proximity of a minefield. Even in a hovercraft at 50 knots a minefield is a minefield.
On a more cultural note I think it is a national shame that of the 23 odd water aerodromes in the UK there is only one left.
Regards
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Loch Voil, Loch Lubnaig, Loch Tay, Loch Earn. Are all still on the chart, within a few miles of each other, & Eskdale north west of Loch Ness, all in Scotland but still UK I believe?
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Thames Admiral,
CAP168 applies only to licensed aerodromes and is not the definitive guide to seaplane ops or landings in the UK.. Since flying training no longer requires a licensed aerodrome, that's why there are no longer any licensed water aerodromes in the UK. I believe Loch Lomond Seaplanes operate their Public Transport flights using a CAA Exemption to land at unlicensed sites.
Different rules apply in Scotland. Land at a private lake in England or Wales without permission and you could be guilty of trespass.
Hamish Mitchell, David West or Neil Gregory are the Scottish experts on seaplaning...
CAP168 applies only to licensed aerodromes and is not the definitive guide to seaplane ops or landings in the UK.. Since flying training no longer requires a licensed aerodrome, that's why there are no longer any licensed water aerodromes in the UK. I believe Loch Lomond Seaplanes operate their Public Transport flights using a CAA Exemption to land at unlicensed sites.
Different rules apply in Scotland. Land at a private lake in England or Wales without permission and you could be guilty of trespass.
Hamish Mitchell, David West or Neil Gregory are the Scottish experts on seaplaning...
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Icon A5 or Lisa Akoya
Hi
I am thinking about buying one of these two planes.
Check them out here
Explore the A5 - ICON Aircraft
and here
Lisa Airplanes - Créateur d'avions de plaisance
I came across this forum from looking at Sea Planes in the UK. There aren't many as noted above.
Both these planes can take off and land in water 2 foot deep and with waves up to 30cm high.
I came looking for help in what i might be abel tdo with them. Happily both will land on land or water without modification and the lisa can also land on snow.
I expect a number of you have been to the OshKosh EAA Airventure. I went a couple of weekends ago to check out these two planes and what else is out there.
My plan is to use one to fly between an airfield near london and then land near my house in Topsham on the River Exe. A stretch of often flatwater that is one mile wide and five miles long.
Given the range of these planes - I also fancy exploring Along the costs of Devon and Cornwall... channel islands... Isle of Scilly.... France and Northern Spain using a combination of water and land landings. I also like that they can be put on a container and shipped easily so would likely take it to South Africa, the USA and South America for some exploring.
Interested in people's views on
1. The planes - they are made predominantly of Carbon so some of the maintenance issues mentioned above are perhaps less relevant.
2. Rules in the UK and in the rest of the world on Sea Planes - the USA seems pretty well covered.
and any other comments you think might be helpful.
I am thinking about buying one of these two planes.
Check them out here
Explore the A5 - ICON Aircraft
and here
Lisa Airplanes - Créateur d'avions de plaisance
I came across this forum from looking at Sea Planes in the UK. There aren't many as noted above.
Both these planes can take off and land in water 2 foot deep and with waves up to 30cm high.
I came looking for help in what i might be abel tdo with them. Happily both will land on land or water without modification and the lisa can also land on snow.
I expect a number of you have been to the OshKosh EAA Airventure. I went a couple of weekends ago to check out these two planes and what else is out there.
My plan is to use one to fly between an airfield near london and then land near my house in Topsham on the River Exe. A stretch of often flatwater that is one mile wide and five miles long.
Given the range of these planes - I also fancy exploring Along the costs of Devon and Cornwall... channel islands... Isle of Scilly.... France and Northern Spain using a combination of water and land landings. I also like that they can be put on a container and shipped easily so would likely take it to South Africa, the USA and South America for some exploring.
Interested in people's views on
1. The planes - they are made predominantly of Carbon so some of the maintenance issues mentioned above are perhaps less relevant.
2. Rules in the UK and in the rest of the world on Sea Planes - the USA seems pretty well covered.
and any other comments you think might be helpful.
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Hi,
I know it's your first post, I'm not sure how much or little time you have flying. You could buy either of the two aircraft you mentioned, and make it work no doubt. If I had that budget, I would call Paul Furnee the 18,000hr seaplane expert and have him fetch me a nice Lake Renegade and have him ferry it/box it and re assemble it. Then let him show you how to do it safely. Winds/WX/Loads much less of a factor to a Lake. I've owned and flown them and miss my old one alot. For half the money you could buy a LA4-200 EP which will do 80% as much.
Before I'd spend all that money I'd get a UK based seaplane owner or operator to do the trip with me a few times in their aircraft and see if it works in practice.
Enjoy,
I know it's your first post, I'm not sure how much or little time you have flying. You could buy either of the two aircraft you mentioned, and make it work no doubt. If I had that budget, I would call Paul Furnee the 18,000hr seaplane expert and have him fetch me a nice Lake Renegade and have him ferry it/box it and re assemble it. Then let him show you how to do it safely. Winds/WX/Loads much less of a factor to a Lake. I've owned and flown them and miss my old one alot. For half the money you could buy a LA4-200 EP which will do 80% as much.
Before I'd spend all that money I'd get a UK based seaplane owner or operator to do the trip with me a few times in their aircraft and see if it works in practice.
Enjoy,
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Looking at that mission London to Topsham, I'd be landing in Exeter every time. It's closer than the nearest ramp (slipway) I can see on Google Earth. Having a proper ramp is key to that job, and the attached maintenance load with saltwater operations has to be factored in. Very few ramps are wide enough, secure enough and have the space to park an aeroplane. 99/100 owners won't leaving a flying boat on the water overnight. It's not the norm. Vast vast differences between seaplane built and boating built infrastructure that only become apparent when you own a seaplane and make a few mistakes. Look up N84219 on AAIB site, just a handy example of the traps that await.
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The underlying problem, as I understand it, is the small but significant difference in US and UK laws.
What is not specifically prohibited in the US, is allowed.
What is not specifically allowed in the UK, is prohibited.
What is not specifically prohibited in the US, is allowed.
What is not specifically allowed in the UK, is prohibited.
(N.B. The above is notwithstanding the mission statement of the UK CAA: "Everything is prohibited unless we've worked out a way to charge you for it.")
England difficult cos water is classed as private property and they have medieval trespass laws. Lake District National Park speed limited so impossible.
Scotland, much more free and easy. Best choice of landscape, water and FREEEEEEEDOM !
Scotland, much more free and easy. Best choice of landscape, water and FREEEEEEEDOM !
LDNP: wording of byelaws varies from lake to lake, so worth checking the small print. Speed limits are actual ground/water speed (not TAS), which a prosecutor would need to establish with accuracy beyond reasonable doubt.
Scotland: plenty of water here, but the weather is always crap. Don't be taken in by this video which was obviously made on FSX:
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Irish Seaplane has provided excellent advice. I regularly use my amphibious flying boat to commute, but I do it when I can, not when I have to. Getting a floating plane usefully to shore, so you can exit, and continue your day, requires a lot of thought.
As said, leaving them floating is undesireable. Ramping out a tricycle flying boat has challenges - many Lake Amphibians have had nosewheel problems and repairs. If ramping is to be regular, consider a taildragger amphib flying boat, they are superior in going up and down ramps.
I cringe at the thought of a brand new composite hull - for me to scratch first. Whenever I fly brand new floats, I try to not beach, dock or ramp at all, if I can avoid. I traded keel paint with a rocky bottom this weekend. Fortunately my keel has seen battle before, so it was just a few more marks - not the first! (Or damaging).
The idyllic vision of flying boat freedom, promoted by some, should be confirmed before broad acceptance!
When I train Lake or floatplane pilots, a lot of the time is spent on how to dock and disembark safely and practically, there's more to it than you'll see at first glance. As said, have a willing amphibian owner explore the plan for you first.
I sent an ampib from England to Canada in a container this past March. It worked, but was a lot of cost and effort. I doubt that you want your pride and joy bouncing around in a container.
Make sure that the insurance you desire would be practically available to you....
As said, leaving them floating is undesireable. Ramping out a tricycle flying boat has challenges - many Lake Amphibians have had nosewheel problems and repairs. If ramping is to be regular, consider a taildragger amphib flying boat, they are superior in going up and down ramps.
I cringe at the thought of a brand new composite hull - for me to scratch first. Whenever I fly brand new floats, I try to not beach, dock or ramp at all, if I can avoid. I traded keel paint with a rocky bottom this weekend. Fortunately my keel has seen battle before, so it was just a few more marks - not the first! (Or damaging).
The idyllic vision of flying boat freedom, promoted by some, should be confirmed before broad acceptance!
When I train Lake or floatplane pilots, a lot of the time is spent on how to dock and disembark safely and practically, there's more to it than you'll see at first glance. As said, have a willing amphibian owner explore the plan for you first.
I sent an ampib from England to Canada in a container this past March. It worked, but was a lot of cost and effort. I doubt that you want your pride and joy bouncing around in a container.
Make sure that the insurance you desire would be practically available to you....
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Adam,
I couldn't disagree more with the above (mostly foreign) gloom-mongers.
An airplane is not like a dog or spouse. It's just a machine, for Christmas, not for life. No pockets in a shroud so buy it, use and enjoy it for your business (100% WDA), and when it has served its purpose, buy another. Just like a lawnmower.
And when you bring it to Scotland, PLEASE give me a shout!
I couldn't disagree more with the above (mostly foreign) gloom-mongers.
An airplane is not like a dog or spouse. It's just a machine, for Christmas, not for life. No pockets in a shroud so buy it, use and enjoy it for your business (100% WDA), and when it has served its purpose, buy another. Just like a lawnmower.
And when you bring it to Scotland, PLEASE give me a shout!
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I've never been to your part of the world - have you been sailing in your area? Google maps suggests that the Exeter canal would be too narrow, and the River Exe is either tidal or covered with moored small pleasure craft. Also see Exmouth and River Exe (including Topsham and Exeter Canal) [Expanded View] - Channel, West: pilotage, charts, photos and marine business listings which mentions a 10 kt speed limit.
However there may be a way round this- you wont know unless you ask locally. There may be a wide / shallow angled slipway somewhere. Find some contacts locally and ask!
From ICON Aircraft | FAQ: Water Operations
So you'd need to get it out of the water and wash it down after use.
I hope you can find a way to do this!
However there may be a way round this- you wont know unless you ask locally. There may be a wide / shallow angled slipway somewhere. Find some contacts locally and ask!
From ICON Aircraft | FAQ: Water Operations
Can the A5 be operated in salt water?
Yes. There are no set limits on saltwater operation; however, ICON does recommend that following any operation in salt water, the A5 exterior be given a good freshwater rinse. In addition, the A5 should not be allowed to sit in salt water for prolonged periods due to saltwater’s corrosive nature.
Yes. There are no set limits on saltwater operation; however, ICON does recommend that following any operation in salt water, the A5 exterior be given a good freshwater rinse. In addition, the A5 should not be allowed to sit in salt water for prolonged periods due to saltwater’s corrosive nature.
I hope you can find a way to do this!
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Some seven years ago or more, did have a plane come in for several touch and go then a full stop + take off.
Pilot was going to Africa and needed a pass for water landings prior to the trip.
Also did have one come in on a mayday. Was parked up near the sailing club for several weeks. Local people say that the landing was delayed, so that TV crew could film it landing. Was on the BBC South East news.
Pilot was going to Africa and needed a pass for water landings prior to the trip.
Also did have one come in on a mayday. Was parked up near the sailing club for several weeks. Local people say that the landing was delayed, so that TV crew could film it landing. Was on the BBC South East news.
there were several reasons for the delayed landing., none of which involved waiting for a tv crew!
To this end is there anything useful about these reasons you'd care to enlighten us on?
FP.
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Ther's a seaplane operator in NI - Lakeland Seaplane Tours - Enniskillen
...and there's landing rights available in Kent - Seaplane landings on the Medway restricted - Yachting Monthly
It appears that someone operates a seaplane on Lough Neagh (the largest body of fresh water in the UK) - https://500px.com/photo/40727970/sea...-by-tam-mullen - sadly there's no more info than that.
...and there's landing rights available in Kent - Seaplane landings on the Medway restricted - Yachting Monthly
It appears that someone operates a seaplane on Lough Neagh (the largest body of fresh water in the UK) - https://500px.com/photo/40727970/sea...-by-tam-mullen - sadly there's no more info than that.
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floats
Hi
I came across this forum from looking at Sea Planes in the UK. There aren't many as noted above.
Both these planes can take off and land in water 2 foot deep and with waves up to 30cm high.
I came looking for help in what i might be abel tdo with them. Happily both will land on land or water without modification and the lisa can also land on snow.
I expect a number of you have been to the OshKosh EAA Airventure. I went a couple of weekends ago to check out these two planes and what else is out there.
My plan is to use one to fly between an airfield near london and then land near my house in Topsham on the River Exe. A stretch of often flatwater that is one mile wide and five miles long.
Given the range of these planes - I also fancy exploring Along the costs of Devon and Cornwall... channel islands... Isle of Scilly.... France and Northern Spain using a combination of water and land landings. I also like that they can be put on a container and shipped easily so would likely take it to South Africa, the USA and South America for some exploring.
Interested in people's views on
1. The planes - they are made predominantly of Carbon so some of the maintenance issues mentioned above are perhaps less relevant.
2. Rules in the UK and in the rest of the world on Sea Planes - the USA seems pretty well covered.
and any other comments you think might be helpful.
I came across this forum from looking at Sea Planes in the UK. There aren't many as noted above.
Both these planes can take off and land in water 2 foot deep and with waves up to 30cm high.
I came looking for help in what i might be abel tdo with them. Happily both will land on land or water without modification and the lisa can also land on snow.
I expect a number of you have been to the OshKosh EAA Airventure. I went a couple of weekends ago to check out these two planes and what else is out there.
My plan is to use one to fly between an airfield near london and then land near my house in Topsham on the River Exe. A stretch of often flatwater that is one mile wide and five miles long.
Given the range of these planes - I also fancy exploring Along the costs of Devon and Cornwall... channel islands... Isle of Scilly.... France and Northern Spain using a combination of water and land landings. I also like that they can be put on a container and shipped easily so would likely take it to South Africa, the USA and South America for some exploring.
Interested in people's views on
1. The planes - they are made predominantly of Carbon so some of the maintenance issues mentioned above are perhaps less relevant.
2. Rules in the UK and in the rest of the world on Sea Planes - the USA seems pretty well covered.
and any other comments you think might be helpful.
