PPL in/around Edinburgh

[copywrite33]

Hey all,

Am just about to embark on my PPL and am looking to book my first lesson. Is there any schools in/around edinburgh that are good?

Looking for reviews about places really.

Am willing to travel an hour and a half outside of Edinburgh.

Ta,

CW33

[cal368]

Learn to Fly in Scotland at Edinburgh Flying Club - Scotland's capital airport - flying lessons, trial flights, flight training From Edinburgh, don't know much but guess landing fees will make it fairly expensive.

Leading Edge At Cumbernauld, prices on website. Use Cessna 152/172 and PA28's Landing fees about £10.50 each time.

Cumbernauld Flying Centre : Flight training for student pilots Also at Cumbernauld, use Diamond Katanas and are subject to the same land fees.

Tayside Aviation Fife and Dundee Airport Flying Experience, Gift Vouchers From Fife (poss not at weekends) and Dundee. Use 152's, PA28's and Grob 115. Well established and good reputation. No idea on landing fees.

ACS Aviation From Perth airport. Use Cessna 152's, PA28 Archers and PA38 Tomahawks. Landings included in hourly cost. 3 runways here so Crosswinds a bit less of a potential issue. I'm currently doing my CPL here and would recommend training from Perth if the distance isn't too far.

Main thing is, call or drop by these places. Speak to existing students and instructors to get a feel for each place. Then if you can't decide then ask here again for pointers.

Don't pay up-front (at least not for the whole course) keep your money in your bank. Have a search on here for lots of guidance and reasons for this.

Good Luck,

Paul.

[copywrite33]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for all those, wasn't asking for people to find the places for me (i know how angry people get when you dont use the search function) but was good of you to do it. Mainly just looking for reviews/recommendations. Will definately go and have a look around all the places first and have read the horror stories on paying upfront (on a side note - if a company was to go under and i had paid by credit card would this be covered?) so i wont be making that mistake.

Cheers again, happy landings!

CW33

[fisbangwollop]

You wont go far wrong with Leading Edge at Cumbernauld.....seem a very friendly bunch with a good fleet and experianced instructors...

[RJ.146]

Hi Copywrite, Paul's

I am a current student at ACS at Perth,
Top Place, Top people.
Instructors are really really really good! (honest!)

The aircraft are well maintained and good availability
Because ACS operate their own engineering facility never had a problem with a/c going tech ether. ACS works out for me to be the cheapest place in scotland to fly (C152).

John

(would also recommend Leading edge if distance is an issue!)

[lurker06]

Hi Copywrite,

Have a look at the Tayside Aviation website (Tayside Aviation Flying Schools in Scotland). Fife airport is within your distance limit. All landing fees at Fife and Dundee airports are included in the prices for training or if you are hiring Tayside aircraft after you have obtained your PPL. The instructors are excellent and Tayside aircraft are well maintained at their own Dundee premises.

Regards

Lurker06

[xrayalpha]

Hi,

To plug myself - if you just want to fly and have fun, rather than eventually go the commercial route, you really should give a modern microlight like the C42s that Sportflight Scotland operates at Strathaven a try.

I'll say no more, because the only way to find out is to fly!

edited to correct a typo.

[Blinkz]

I did my PPL at Edinburgh Flying Club and I would recommend them without a second thought. Professional club with great friendly instructors. Flying from Edinburgh airport is a little more expensive, but the experience you get from it is invaluable, especially if wanting to go on to CPL. I've now 2000hrs and an ATPL flying A320 and still remember the days flying around Scotland in Tomahawk NU :-)

[Scottishflyer182]

Hi CW33,

I would suggest that all the local clubs, Fife, Dundee, Edinburgh, Perth, Cumbernauld and Inverness are all the same. There trying to run a business in a very competitive market in a recession. Because of this the least amount of money possible is spent on training aircraft. Just enough to keep them legal.

Instructors work long hours, are paid very little as they are hour building in the hope of getting better paid commercial jobs. Generally instructors will try hard to make your flying as enjoyable as possible.

There are good instructors and there are instructors, the luck is finding the good ones. My only advice would be don't spend the next 6 months trying to find the "best" just get on with you PPL and work hard with whoever you end up training with.

Good luck.

SF.

[dont overfil]

Sensible words from SF182. Ask the flying school if they have any "career" instructors. I know at least one is at at Dundee. They would give you some stability during your course.
You are fortunate. Scotland has to be one of the most rewarding places to fly.
DO.

[The Old Fat One]

I would suggest that all the local clubs, Fife, Dundee, Edinburgh, Perth, Cumbernauld and Inverness are all the same. There trying to run a business in a very competitive market in a recession. Because of this the least amount of money possible is spent on training aircraft. Just enough to keep them legal.

Sorry but not wise words at all. Total rubbish in fact. Visit the schools in question on this list. Count the aircraft. Count the (full time career) instructors. Look around the maintenance hangar(s). You will find the schools to be totally different in scale of operation, customer base and resources.

One of the schools on your list has been operating continuously from the same base for forty years. One of the others has only been operating for a few months.

If you are going to offer advice on this forum, why not do a little homework and research rather than just spout the first B****ks that comes off your keyboard.

[Captain Smithy]

I would second EFC. The aircraft are nice and the instructors are good. The price is actually quite competitive compared with other local clubs.

Best to pop in to the clubs and see for yourself - meet the instructors, have a chat etc.

Smithy

[copywrite33]

Thanks for all your replies, going to go and visit them all over the next week and then book with the one that seems the best.

If there are anymore reviews i would love to hear them!

[Say again s l o w l y]

Sorry but not wise words at all. Total rubbish in fact. Visit the schools in question on this list. Count the aircraft. Count the (full time career) instructors. Look around the maintenance hangar(s). You will find the schools to be totally different in scale of operation, customer base and resources.

One of the schools on your list has been operating continuously from the same base for forty years. One of the others has only been operating for a few months.

If you are going to offer advice on this forum, why not do a little homework and research rather than just spout the first B****ks that comes off your keyboard.

Now don't be an idiot. Or anything like as rude. I suggest you apologise.

For a start, SF182 does have a point. Most schools are similar in many ways. I also wouldn't start spouting complete tripe about maintenance etc. I've worked for many different schools up here and I can tell you quite categorically that they are all just as sh*te as eachother. That includes the ones with their own maintenance facilities.

As for the long term financial survival of any flying school or club...You might as well throw a dice. Past performance has nothing to do with survival. In fact I'd rather go with a well funded startup company than a struggling established player any day of the week. Though I make no judgement on the finances of any school in Scotland.

The simple principle of choosing a school is this. Be cynical, visit them all, look past the shiny toppings, meet the instructors, never pay up front and train where you feel most comfortable.

There is no "best" school. They all have positives and negatives.

Here are a few other things to think about when choosing your instructor and school. Stick with the same instuctor as much as possible, make sure your FI is not too wet behind the ears, make sure they are passionate about instructing and check their availability. What are the opening hours, how far are you needing to travel (don't choose a school that is more than an hour away, it'll just annoy the hell out of you) Look at the time they have available for each lesson (avoid weekends if possible), what other activities are there outside of just turning up to train?

That is where most flying schools fall down enormously, there is nothing much beyond getting you a PPL. Once you have that, what else is there? Can you do more advanced training, IMC, Aero's, Tailwheel? Fly more interesting aircraft? Etc.Etc.

Experience in an instructor is of course a good thing, though it is not the be all and end all. You need to get on with them too.

I don't want to be accused of being biased, so I won't make any specific school recommendations on here.

Just go up and have fun. Wherever allows you to do that the most, is the place to train. If you are happy, you'll learn better. It doesn't matter if you are flying a Cessna, Piper, Grob, Traumahawk (though how anyone can enjoy flying one of those pieces of cr*p I'll never know) the simple tenet is have fun.

[sp6]

There is one factor that far outweighs the marginal difference between one school and another - you!

Unlike the military, where you will have a full time professional purely interested in your progress and aptitude, and you will be told/ordered when to fly and what to do, Civvy flying schools will be delighted to take your money and go along with whatever frequency of tuition you choose.

It would be a brave FI that would turn round to a customer and insist that they do homework, preparation, book 2-3 lessons a week, spend full days at the flying club, study hard for the exams etc. Most will be just grateful that you turn up for a lesson every so often!

Far more important than the Grob/C152/HR200/Career FI (oh like he's really going to be honest with you and say "I'm only doing this crap to get hours so I can be a 767 jock") is to assess your own committment to the course.

If you can only fly weekends, book both Sat & Sun. If during the week - book 3+ days. When you have done about 6 hours, start to book (max) two lessons per day. When you get to circuits and then on to Navigation, book a weeks holiday and spend ALL 7 DAYS AT THE CLUB BAD WEATHER OR NOT. Buy the books, study before hand so you make the most of the money you spend at the school. Refresh the lesson at home afterwards. Do not rely on your instructors - have your own drive and motivation to achieve.

So may times I have seen both youngsters and middle aged people book one lesson a month and then been surprised that they aren't achieving. If you really want a PPL, make sacrifices to put the effort and hours in. Do this, and it won't matter who you train with.

Oh and lastly - be this kind of diligent, enthusiastic student and you will help whichever club you are at be a better, more welcoming place for other students (and a better place to work for the FI's).

Good luck, safe flying - but work at it!

[CraigJL]

So may times I have seen both youngsters and middle aged people book one lesson a month and then been surprised that they aren't achieving.

That's essentially what I do, so I implore you to define "achieving." Surely steady progression in the course, passing exams and gaining more aviation knowledge than last time is an achievement?

I'm happy with my rate of progression and "achievements" so far, and if it weren't for legal issues, I WOULD commit more time to the course, but that's not possible, so I make do with what I have.

I say that after getting 92.5% in the Aviation Law exam today and going solo.

To be fair, I did consider the pace to be an issue, in forgetting procedures and checks that I only use once a month, but after REALISING that, I simply cemented them even further, and I have no problems with the frequency of lessons at the moment. The key is to keep on top of everything you have done to date so you don't forget for next time.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Flying once a month does make it almost impossible to actually get a licence.

The time gap means that you forget the vast majority of what you have learned in each lesson. That is a fact I'm afraid.

Throw in the general UK weather and you can end up missing half the booked lessons which means that once a month becomes 6 lessons a year. Getting a licence...No chance.

The more often you fly the easier you'll find it. If money is tight, then save up and do lessons in a block. Stringing it out is wasting your FI's time and your money.

I define progress as not having to repeat lessons or even part of lessons. There is more to it than simply learning checks and procedures, you really only learn properly by doing things, not reading them in a book. It helps of course and you are doing the right thing by being prepared, but speaking as an FI who's been teaching for a while, then once a month just isn't enough I'm afraid.

[CraigJL]

Well you're entitled to your opinion, but it does not necessarily mean it is fact.

6 lessons a year? I don't think so. If that were to be the case, I would book a double, or on the next day to make up for it. This 'system' works for me, and I've never had a lesson repeated for having "forgotten" anything.

As I previously mentioned, there are legal age issues which mean I cannot blitz the course in a few months, as much as I would like to.

Flying is not just about blitzing the course to get a brown coloured wallet at the end of it. Regardless if I don't get my PPL until 70 hours, it's still 70 hours of flying and consolidation, and of fun and enjoyment in the air.

The pace of my lessons will increase during the holidays, and when I'm closer to 17 [which is in a year] and I need to fit at LEAST another 20-odd hours of flying before then.

Rest assured, I can certainly apply myself to a subject, given the appropriate conditions, but I'm along way off starting a career in aviation, so meantime it's served as a very enjoyable hobby which I partake in once a month/every 3 weeks depending on the circumstances.

The customer is always right, and in this case, I'm delighted with how things are going.

P.S - To stay remotely on topic, I'm at Cumbernauld in the DA-20s.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Well, over 10 years as a flying instructor and many thousands of lessons does make my "fact" a bit more likely to be true than that of a single inexperienced student.

But hey, since you know all about it and what is the best method for teaching students, then away you go. I used to be CFI at the school next door to where you are training. So obviously my opinion counts for naff all compared to yours...

The customer is not always right, that I can assure you. Especially when it comes to teenage PPL students...

Other than that, all I have to say about your comment is "wow"...

[sp6]

"The customer is always right, and in this case, I'm delighted with how things are going. "

Hmm. Oh to have the (over) confidence of youth....

Currency requirements for a qualified PPL at most clubs is one hour every six weeks. US studies with the FAA have proved that this level of flying currency leads to a marked deterioration of skills, culminating in an overwhelming inability to pass an equivalent skills test 2-3 years down the line. (ref The Death Zone -How and why Pilots die - search for it under aviation safety).

That is people who already have their PPL. Gaining the PPL requires new skills & techniques to be learnt every lesson, so a once a month flight will put you at a serious disadvantage. Have a quiet think to yourself about why the word "currency" is so important in the Commercial Aviation world, the military, and in the sobering AAIB reports on light aircraft incidents and fatalities.

Lastly - as I suspect my well meaning advice falls on deaf ears - ask your Instructor if he/she thinks your flying would improve if you flew more often. Of course they will tell you what you want to hear about your progress so far - it would be an instructor with no need to earn money that would risk annoying the customer. What do you think a military or airline instructor would say to a student who deemed one flight a month acceptable?

Please, please - for the sake of yourself, and any future passengers you may have - fly more often!!!!!!!!!!!!!