RYR revisited
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RYR revisited
I posted information a while back about a rather unfortunate incident involving connecting RYR flights.
In brief, a delay in the arriving RYR flight from ACE meant that I missed my connecting EZY flight to EDI.
I know the rules. Point to point airline. No form of compensation.
When I went to book a subsequent RYR flight to EDI, I was charged premium rates (about 4 times more than usual) because it was a "last minute booking".
Despite protestations of the obvious nature, both to the desk and by letter, i was politely told to p*ss off.
The discussion here on Pprune was progressing in quite a civil fashion, until the wreckers arrived with their usual personal, snide and offensive comments allowing them to achieve their aim of having the thread closed.
I did not let the matter rest and responded to the standard reply letter with some clearer, salient facts.
When I finally got the second response letter, I nearly fell of my bike.
Here is the part which got me :-
I am still wondering what it was that they expected me to do in order to get the preceding flight to arrive in time.
What a bunch of ninnys !!
In brief, a delay in the arriving RYR flight from ACE meant that I missed my connecting EZY flight to EDI.
I know the rules. Point to point airline. No form of compensation.
When I went to book a subsequent RYR flight to EDI, I was charged premium rates (about 4 times more than usual) because it was a "last minute booking".
Despite protestations of the obvious nature, both to the desk and by letter, i was politely told to p*ss off.
The discussion here on Pprune was progressing in quite a civil fashion, until the wreckers arrived with their usual personal, snide and offensive comments allowing them to achieve their aim of having the thread closed.
I did not let the matter rest and responded to the standard reply letter with some clearer, salient facts.
When I finally got the second response letter, I nearly fell of my bike.
Here is the part which got me :-
It is each individual customer’s responsibility to ensure that they arrive at the airport of departure in sufficient time to continue their onward journey, even in cases where it is another Ryanair flight. Given the above, we regret that we are not in a position to offer compensation.
What a bunch of ninnys !!
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It is of no interest to them. You had two separate contracts of carriage with no correlation between them (other than to yourself). If you can find compensation within the terms and conditions of the first contract, that is where your remedy would lie. For example if the flight was late for defined qualifying conditions you might be eligible for "EU261" redress.
Had you booked with a non point-to-point carrier as one through ticket (BA/IB etc.) you would likely have been rebooked on the next available service at no extra charge.
You chose to risk the first flight arriving on time to satisfy your requirement for being able to depart on the second and wholly (for contractual purposes) separate flight. The "expectation" (although they will have none) is that you left sufficient time between the arrival of the contracted service and whatever onward arrangements you had made, in order to mitigate your own level of perceived risk.
The "simple" answer (fraught with a myriad of potential caveats,) is to allow at least 4 hours between the flights. That way, there is a reasonable chance that EU261 compensation for a delayed flight, will mitigate your losses for having to book another (likely expensive) flight, or overnight accommodation. Similarly, book an origin to destination ticket on one carrier (for contractual purposes) right through to your intended destination.
If you "know the rules" then you must know the risks.
Had you booked with a non point-to-point carrier as one through ticket (BA/IB etc.) you would likely have been rebooked on the next available service at no extra charge.
You chose to risk the first flight arriving on time to satisfy your requirement for being able to depart on the second and wholly (for contractual purposes) separate flight. The "expectation" (although they will have none) is that you left sufficient time between the arrival of the contracted service and whatever onward arrangements you had made, in order to mitigate your own level of perceived risk.
The "simple" answer (fraught with a myriad of potential caveats,) is to allow at least 4 hours between the flights. That way, there is a reasonable chance that EU261 compensation for a delayed flight, will mitigate your losses for having to book another (likely expensive) flight, or overnight accommodation. Similarly, book an origin to destination ticket on one carrier (for contractual purposes) right through to your intended destination.
If you "know the rules" then you must know the risks.
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What they said was arrive at the departure airport in sufficient time, and they were right, what they were getting at is it is YOUR responsibility to ensure you book flights with sufficient time between to account for any and all possible outcomes... So a good 5/6 hours in between for two LoCo's.
You keep banging on about something that was ENTIRELY your fault, to the extent that you even reverent a closed thread to revisit the issue..
You keep banging on about something that was ENTIRELY your fault, to the extent that you even reverent a closed thread to revisit the issue..
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El Grifo, you need to understand that you just do not have a leg to stand on. If you choose to fly LCC it is YOUR responsibility to build in enough of a buffer between flights. Even if it had been RYR for both of your flights they would still have charged you full whack as they don't sell connections. Each sector is an individual contract. You need to accept that you were unlucky but it is not the airline's responsibility to compensate you for what in effect was your own risk taking and questionable planning.
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Two things,
Under MC99 you may have a valid claim against the first airline for delivering you late for your connection. The claim would be only for actual provable damages you had suffered (and capped at SDR1113). Of course if the delay was outside of their control (weather; ATC; etc) you probably do not have a valid claim. The fact that the first airline is the same as the second is actually irrelevant.
I think you made a mistake seeking 'compensation'. This is a very dirty word to airline customer services peoplee. You say that word and they all pull out their copies of the regulation to prove you are not entitled (which you aren't). They will never bend the rules as to do it once, means they have to do it every time.
I would have sought the application of a discount, or rebate, on my second fare acknowledging that I failed to attend boarding through no fault of my own (without actually saying it was their fault). There, I think customer service people have more flexibility.
Lot of talk recently about Ryanair turning over a new leaf and being nice. That may be the case for some, but when things go pear-shaped, you are still on your own.
Under MC99 you may have a valid claim against the first airline for delivering you late for your connection. The claim would be only for actual provable damages you had suffered (and capped at SDR1113). Of course if the delay was outside of their control (weather; ATC; etc) you probably do not have a valid claim. The fact that the first airline is the same as the second is actually irrelevant.
I think you made a mistake seeking 'compensation'. This is a very dirty word to airline customer services peoplee. You say that word and they all pull out their copies of the regulation to prove you are not entitled (which you aren't). They will never bend the rules as to do it once, means they have to do it every time.
I would have sought the application of a discount, or rebate, on my second fare acknowledging that I failed to attend boarding through no fault of my own (without actually saying it was their fault). There, I think customer service people have more flexibility.
Lot of talk recently about Ryanair turning over a new leaf and being nice. That may be the case for some, but when things go pear-shaped, you are still on your own.
Thread Starter
I have no interest now in compensation or any such thing.
I simply take pleasure in highlighting how a highly structured and useful organisation can fall flat on their a*se when it come to dealing with problems largely created by themselves !
What a sop !!!
PS ExXB, I actually suggested that as a frequent user of RYR, perhaps they could issue me with a voucher or similar, for any subsequent flight which I may take. I use them often as a "feeder flight" from ACE to the UK !
Hotel Tango, 2hrs + connecting time with hand luggage only at Stansted, is in my mind and that of others, quite sufficient ! "Bing Bong, Bing Bong" another Ryanair flight has arrived on time is what I have heard on every single previous flight !
I simply take pleasure in highlighting how a highly structured and useful organisation can fall flat on their a*se when it come to dealing with problems largely created by themselves !
It is each individual customer’s responsibility to ensure that they arrive at the airport of departure in sufficient time to continue their onward journey, even in cases where it is another Ryanair flight. Given the above, we regret that we are not in a position to offer compensation.
PS ExXB, I actually suggested that as a frequent user of RYR, perhaps they could issue me with a voucher or similar, for any subsequent flight which I may take. I use them often as a "feeder flight" from ACE to the UK !
Hotel Tango, 2hrs + connecting time with hand luggage only at Stansted, is in my mind and that of others, quite sufficient ! "Bing Bong, Bing Bong" another Ryanair flight has arrived on time is what I have heard on every single previous flight !
Thread Starter
We are all entitled to our opinion highflyer !!
Heading for shutdown !!
The adjective, petulant, is a disapproving term used to describe a bad-tempered child, an adult behaving like an angry child or behavior or this type. Angry or annoyed mean the same thing, but if you choose the word, petulant, you are indicating that it is unreasonable or unjustified. Petulant came to English in the late 16th century from the Latin petulantem "forward, insolent" but was not recorded to mean childishly irritable until the late 1700s.
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Hotel Tango, 2hrs + connecting time with hand luggage only at Stansted, is in my mind and that of others, quite sufficient !
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At risk of been shot down...
El G...you have said it yourself in your quote...unreasonable or unjustified...
Why do I believe you are unreasonable...
You booked a ticket (had a contract) with RYR to transport you from ACE - MAD (at a guess)
You booked a ticket (had a contract) with EZY to transport you from MAD - EDI (at a guess)
Did RYR transport you from ACE-MAD? From what you say yes they did, so contract complete
Did EZY transport you from MAD-EDI? No they didn't because you broke the contract because you failed to show up at the gate on time
Just to recap...
RYR transported you from ACE-MAD as per contract with them
EZY could not transport you from MAD-EDI as you failed to comply with your contract
So in short neither of their problems as you have been probably told by gate staff, ticket desk staff, and at a guess customer services. Both airlines upheld their contracts on their side.
What you failed to do was take out a contract (book a ticket) with an airline that offers connections...Iberia and BA both allow you to book tickets via somewhere from ACE-EDI. You had that option, you did not take it.
Why as all parties except yourself complied with the contract, do you feel that you are entitled to anything?
Why do I believe you are unreasonable...
You booked a ticket (had a contract) with RYR to transport you from ACE - MAD (at a guess)
You booked a ticket (had a contract) with EZY to transport you from MAD - EDI (at a guess)
Did RYR transport you from ACE-MAD? From what you say yes they did, so contract complete
Did EZY transport you from MAD-EDI? No they didn't because you broke the contract because you failed to show up at the gate on time
Just to recap...
RYR transported you from ACE-MAD as per contract with them
EZY could not transport you from MAD-EDI as you failed to comply with your contract
So in short neither of their problems as you have been probably told by gate staff, ticket desk staff, and at a guess customer services. Both airlines upheld their contracts on their side.
What you failed to do was take out a contract (book a ticket) with an airline that offers connections...Iberia and BA both allow you to book tickets via somewhere from ACE-EDI. You had that option, you did not take it.
Why as all parties except yourself complied with the contract, do you feel that you are entitled to anything?
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El Grifo,
You got what you paid for!
Down in my part of the world, next month, I am flying CEB/MNL/HKG/CEB with just a two hour connection in HKG (with a LoCo), and check-in in HKG closes at STD -1hr.
I've made damn sure that I've booked MNL/HKG/CEB as a "multi-city" single booking so should the MNL/HKG flight be late inbound then, despite the inconvenience, the airline are going to need to foot the bill to repatriate me to CEB.
You got what you paid for!
Down in my part of the world, next month, I am flying CEB/MNL/HKG/CEB with just a two hour connection in HKG (with a LoCo), and check-in in HKG closes at STD -1hr.
I've made damn sure that I've booked MNL/HKG/CEB as a "multi-city" single booking so should the MNL/HKG flight be late inbound then, despite the inconvenience, the airline are going to need to foot the bill to repatriate me to CEB.
Thread Starter
The OAG Guide gives 45mins for all Stansted connections and says: "Standard Minimum Connecting Times are administered by IATA and published on their behalf".
Domestic to Domestic - 45 minutes
Domestic to International - 45 minutes
International to Domestic - 45 minutes
International to International - 45 minutes
Domestic to Domestic - 45 minutes
Domestic to International - 45 minutes
International to Domestic - 45 minutes
International to International - 45 minutes
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Jeez El Grifo, you just don't get it do you! That is the minimum standard connecting time needed at the airport when traveling on a through booking (and any hold baggage is checked through). It has bugger all to do with airlines such as RYR or EZY who do not sell connections. Their contract with you is on a single point to point basis.
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C'mon you guys, ease up a little. The OP isn't seeking compensation he was just looking for a little fair treatment.
I agree with him that FR could have been a little more sympathetic, but I too understand the pricing system which doesn't give the clerk (even if s/he was FR staff) at the desk any leeway whatsoever.
If FR wants to continue to be
, that's fine. It's in their terms of reference but then they should give up on the 'oh we are really nice guys' routine.
I agree with him that FR could have been a little more sympathetic, but I too understand the pricing system which doesn't give the clerk (even if s/he was FR staff) at the desk any leeway whatsoever.
If FR wants to continue to be
, that's fine. It's in their terms of reference but then they should give up on the 'oh we are really nice guys' routine.
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Domestic to Domestic - 45 minutes
Domestic to International - 45 minutes
International to Domestic - 45 minutes
International to International - 45 minutes
Domestic to International - 45 minutes
International to Domestic - 45 minutes
International to International - 45 minutes
Two hours should be recognised as a minimum, sure if one is booked on one thru booking then 45 minutes might suffice providing that one accepts that their checked-in baggage might not make the connection.
Airports/Airlines such as ZRH & Swiss have PDQ transfers off to a fine art, STN & Ryanair do not ... Well they simply don't do transfers!
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I agree with him that FR could have been a little more sympathetic
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As sympathetic as I am as to the reason why you had to travel on this occasion, and accepting that a delay to the first part of your travel plans caused you financial loss, I am not really sure what anybody can say, that hasn't already been said (many times) to provide the confirmation bias you seem to be seeking.
If I recall correctly, your Ryanair flight was delayed 1:45 minutes because of a Generator fault? A delay of that magnitude wouldn't trigger EU 261 compensation as the period is insufficient. Under the contract of carriage there doesn't appear to be anything you can rely on to invoke a remunerated cancellation payment or a delay claim.
The connection times you have quoted (from a commercial guidebook) are recommended minimum connection times that are normally used when a transfer is being ticketed through on the same contract. Beyond that, it is nothing more than a rough guide that you can use as you wish. Given that your first flight was delayed 105 minutes, the connection times (even if they had validity to your claim) would be academic as the reality was it only left you 15 minutes for an International / Domestic non-interline connection.
You booked two different contracts of carriage (on two different airlines, although it wouldn't have made any difference,) and the delay to the first wasn't sufficient to trigger a compensation payment. Consequently, you didn't present in time and as a result forfeited the second contract. Unfortunate, but "you knew the rules."
You (not unreasonably) asked Ryanair to show goodwill towards to you as their delayed flight had caused you a lost opportunity, (saving money by risking two separate contracts that you hoped would work to your benefit in the circumstances). They said "no" and as a result you had to pay circa £140 for a new ticket? The fare you paid was the "standard fare." For it to have been "four times more than usual" you would probably have had to book it at least 4 days in advance, and subject to the yield management offers on that particular flight.
The harsh reality here is that you were hoping two separate tickets with a short transit period between the two, would (fingers crossed) work out to your benefit. It was a gamble and you lost. There are (as you know) options that are much less of a gamble and you elected not to avail yourself of them.
When you asked for a favour from the airline in selling you a new onward ticket at a reduced rate (beyond the terms of the contract) they declined your request. The end result being that you were £140 out of pocket. In all honesty not a great deal in the circumstances.
C'est la vie, but you must realize you are flogging a dead horse? Nevertheless, it is your dead horse to flog and you can keep sending them letters. Trouble is, I cannot see what anybody here can do to help you other than to highlight the pitfalls of buying the right ticket and making sufficient allowance when time is imperative. Caveat emptor!
If I recall correctly, your Ryanair flight was delayed 1:45 minutes because of a Generator fault? A delay of that magnitude wouldn't trigger EU 261 compensation as the period is insufficient. Under the contract of carriage there doesn't appear to be anything you can rely on to invoke a remunerated cancellation payment or a delay claim.
The connection times you have quoted (from a commercial guidebook) are recommended minimum connection times that are normally used when a transfer is being ticketed through on the same contract. Beyond that, it is nothing more than a rough guide that you can use as you wish. Given that your first flight was delayed 105 minutes, the connection times (even if they had validity to your claim) would be academic as the reality was it only left you 15 minutes for an International / Domestic non-interline connection.
You booked two different contracts of carriage (on two different airlines, although it wouldn't have made any difference,) and the delay to the first wasn't sufficient to trigger a compensation payment. Consequently, you didn't present in time and as a result forfeited the second contract. Unfortunate, but "you knew the rules."
You (not unreasonably) asked Ryanair to show goodwill towards to you as their delayed flight had caused you a lost opportunity, (saving money by risking two separate contracts that you hoped would work to your benefit in the circumstances). They said "no" and as a result you had to pay circa £140 for a new ticket? The fare you paid was the "standard fare." For it to have been "four times more than usual" you would probably have had to book it at least 4 days in advance, and subject to the yield management offers on that particular flight.
The harsh reality here is that you were hoping two separate tickets with a short transit period between the two, would (fingers crossed) work out to your benefit. It was a gamble and you lost. There are (as you know) options that are much less of a gamble and you elected not to avail yourself of them.
When you asked for a favour from the airline in selling you a new onward ticket at a reduced rate (beyond the terms of the contract) they declined your request. The end result being that you were £140 out of pocket. In all honesty not a great deal in the circumstances.
C'est la vie, but you must realize you are flogging a dead horse? Nevertheless, it is your dead horse to flog and you can keep sending them letters. Trouble is, I cannot see what anybody here can do to help you other than to highlight the pitfalls of buying the right ticket and making sufficient allowance when time is imperative. Caveat emptor!
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Why do I agree? Well I have a few ideas about customer service and attracting return customers.
And FR are making a big deal about being nice. Obviously not always.
And FR are making a big deal about being nice. Obviously not always.
Thread Starter
Well. when all is said and done, I have always been a great supporter of Ryanair and their business model.
I always said I would till support them, until they actually turned round and bit me in the bum.
That day has finally arrived, forcing me to join the huge throng of people who despise their harsh and heartless business methods.
My choice and my right to choose !
I always said I would till support them, until they actually turned round and bit me in the bum.
That day has finally arrived, forcing me to join the huge throng of people who despise their harsh and heartless business methods.
My choice and my right to choose !
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You actually bit yourself in the bum by not booking a through ticket that would have protected you in the event of a delay. Are you not the same person that posted endlessly a year or so back about not getting a refund when someone was sick and could not travel. You know the score with LCC, you took the chance and lost on this occasion. Very unfair to blame FR this time.
