Radar Coverage at Ballina
Thread Starter
Radar Coverage at Ballina
Last time I flew into Ballina I noticed good radar coverage from the SSR to about 2,500 feet. Can anyone advise what radar head this coverage comes from and what is the lowest coverage level? Also, can anyone who flies into the airport advise on the traffic levels? I was told by an IFR airline pilot that he was once given traffic on seven aircraft covering the Ballina/Lismore area. I’m not sure how he could work that out!
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Dick, I'm not sure of where SSR radars are located. I do know there was en-route radar at Round Mountain (between Coffs & Armidale).
I have operated into Ballina for about 21 years and was never passed more than about 4 aircraft as traffic. That's easy enough to sort out if one is conservative.
I worry more about hitting the hang gliders off Rocky Point and Skennars Head from RWY06
The 60's designed plane I fly these days has ADSB, therefore the SSR point is moot
I have operated into Ballina for about 21 years and was never passed more than about 4 aircraft as traffic. That's easy enough to sort out if one is conservative.
I worry more about hitting the hang gliders off Rocky Point and Skennars Head from RWY06
The 60's designed plane I fly these days has ADSB, therefore the SSR point is moot
Thread Starter
So what level down to does the Adsb signal display on the Brisbane ATC screen? Where is the ADSB outlet located ?
When one of the other of the four aircraft is in cloud and piloted by a 200 hour pilot do you tell him what to do? Or do you allow this low time pilot to decide on what level of safety your passengers will be given?
I understand there is no " standard" for IFR self separation in un controlled airspace!
When one of the other of the four aircraft is in cloud and piloted by a 200 hour pilot do you tell him what to do? Or do you allow this low time pilot to decide on what level of safety your passengers will be given?
I understand there is no " standard" for IFR self separation in un controlled airspace!
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Since we've had ADSB, we seem to be identified as soon as we contact ATC with our departure call (after we've done the after takeoff checklist). So I imagine that's above 3000' by the time we've cleaned up and done the checklist.
With regard to traffic, we devise a proposed plan of action. We NEVER "tell" any traffic what to do. And we encounter pilots with far less than 200hrs, Dick. Quite often it is pre-solo. The one size fits all approach does not work.
If the traffic is assessed as a conflict, we make a suggestion to the conflicting traffic that will ensure separation. The response from the other pilot will determine the next course of action. If we believe the other traffic either does not understand the suggestion or is unable to meet the proposed action, then we adopt a conservative approach and take an alternative action. That may mean delaying action on our part until such time as we assess the other traffic as no longer being a conflict.
Contrary to popular belief (and it appears to be your belief, too Dick), we don't just barge into the circuit and tell everyone to hold or get out of our way. Separation is a mutual responsibility.
Having said that, in my experience most of the schools operating at ports we go into are very good at training their students how to deal with RPT movements. And they do this very well.
You've been an IFR pilot for several decades, Dick. What is your methodology for separating from less experienced pilots than yourself?
With regard to traffic, we devise a proposed plan of action. We NEVER "tell" any traffic what to do. And we encounter pilots with far less than 200hrs, Dick. Quite often it is pre-solo. The one size fits all approach does not work.
If the traffic is assessed as a conflict, we make a suggestion to the conflicting traffic that will ensure separation. The response from the other pilot will determine the next course of action. If we believe the other traffic either does not understand the suggestion or is unable to meet the proposed action, then we adopt a conservative approach and take an alternative action. That may mean delaying action on our part until such time as we assess the other traffic as no longer being a conflict.
Contrary to popular belief (and it appears to be your belief, too Dick), we don't just barge into the circuit and tell everyone to hold or get out of our way. Separation is a mutual responsibility.
Having said that, in my experience most of the schools operating at ports we go into are very good at training their students how to deal with RPT movements. And they do this very well.
You've been an IFR pilot for several decades, Dick. What is your methodology for separating from less experienced pilots than yourself?
Hey Dick,
In the 'good ole days' of OCTA, he would have been given 'pertinent' traffic only.....
i.e. That traffic which may have posed a conflict.....
I dunno wot they do now of course....
Cheers
(p.s. Thanx again......)
In the 'good ole days' of OCTA, he would have been given 'pertinent' traffic only.....
i.e. That traffic which may have posed a conflict.....
I dunno wot they do now of course....
Cheers
(p.s. Thanx again......)
ADS-B locations, with the coverage map at FL300:
ADS-B coverage at 5,000'. Working out approximate VHF ranges from the locations given should be relatively simple for someone who's flown round the world.
As a relatively low-time pilot, I'll happily work around RPT whereever possible, that being said, if said RPT tells me to do something, he probably won't like the reply. The safety of my aircraft and it's passengers is my first priority. If that means not deviating from a planned approach, so what? Captain Fourbars isn't paying for his fuel....
ADS-B coverage at 5,000'. Working out approximate VHF ranges from the locations given should be relatively simple for someone who's flown round the world.
When one of the other of the four aircraft is in cloud and piloted by a 200 hour pilot do you tell him what to do? Or do you allow this low time pilot to decide on what level of safety your passengers will be given?
Captain fourbars might not be paying for his fuel, but mum and the kids are. There's also potentially a couple of hundred of them. The airline crew don't know your capability and treat you as a risk.
It does also say in the regulations that air commerce should be given priority by private operations.
It doesn't cause a lot of grief to throw in an orbit or two near the circuit for a lighty. It could cost a career for an airline crew....
Glad I don't go to Ballina.
It does also say in the regulations that air commerce should be given priority by private operations.
It doesn't cause a lot of grief to throw in an orbit or two near the circuit for a lighty. It could cost a career for an airline crew....
Glad I don't go to Ballina.
... It does also say in the regulations that air commerce should be given priority by private operations. ...
(But I am always happy to adjust/wait/orbit or whatever works for the commercial folks anyway.)
Thread Starter
KR what's the difference between the red and the green in the lower pic?
Isn't the red SSR?
Huge. If self separation using radio in IMC is so good why do we need ATC?
Isn't the red SSR?
Huge. If self separation using radio in IMC is so good why do we need ATC?
Thread Starter
Creamy and Huge. I always give the bigger plane first go when I can. It's just commonsense that by doing so our country saves money - and safety is always improved if bigger passenger carrying aircraft can get on the ground sooner.
... It does also say in the regulations that air commerce should be given priority by private operations. ...
I always give way to the Sikorsky S76's at my airport... their operating costs are $100 per minute. When the Super Puma comes out... I keep well away!
Dick beat me to it.... well said - on the ground for an airliner is statistically much safer :-)
I'd take it as a guide only because there are plenty of places subject to anomalous propagation that have variable radar coverage. A bit like the coverage maps the mobile companies publish really.
Self separation around a common point (as in one you're all flying to) like an aerodrome is easy.
Thread Starter
So that must mean that Hugh's ADSB GPS transmitted position is not received by AsA at Ballina. It is simply the Mode S transponder that is being received and displayed on the controllors screen. The ADSB was a waste of money in this location.
CASA has written me a letter stating that from December this year I will no longer be able to fly my CJ3 in the J curve above FL 290 without ADSB. This is despite the fact that my aircraft is fitted with a mode S transponder and in most cases that's the only signal they will be receiving.
Sounds like a dishonest con to me!
Presumably the only reason they have not installed ADSB transceivers under the J curve is to save money and increase profits. But why then force aircraft to be ADSB equipped when they won't be receiving and processing the ADSB GPS position information ?
CASA has written me a letter stating that from December this year I will no longer be able to fly my CJ3 in the J curve above FL 290 without ADSB. This is despite the fact that my aircraft is fitted with a mode S transponder and in most cases that's the only signal they will be receiving.
Sounds like a dishonest con to me!
Presumably the only reason they have not installed ADSB transceivers under the J curve is to save money and increase profits. But why then force aircraft to be ADSB equipped when they won't be receiving and processing the ADSB GPS position information ?
If self separation using radio in IMC is so good why do we need ATC?
Of course self-separation is not as good as ATC. ATC do the best job they can with the resources given them as do the pilots. The moron who designed the current CTAF procedures considered that the highest performance aircraft operating into CTAF's was going to be an RPT turboprop.
Dick, those coverage diagrams are well out of date for ADS-B as there have been further outlets added recently, for instance at Mt William in the Grampians west of Melbourne and Mt Tassie in Gippsland. No idea what has been added near Brisbane.
According to this there will be 74 outlets in total in 2015: https://newsroom.airservicesaustrali...e-surveillance
A quick count shows 28 or so outlets on those maps so a a further 45 or so need to be included. No idea if the 74 includes the Tassie and Sydney multilateration gear though.
According to this there will be 74 outlets in total in 2015: https://newsroom.airservicesaustrali...e-surveillance
A quick count shows 28 or so outlets on those maps so a a further 45 or so need to be included. No idea if the 74 includes the Tassie and Sydney multilateration gear though.
Contrary to popular belief (and it appears to be your belief, too Dick), we don't just barge into the circuit and tell everyone to hold or get out of our way. Separation is a mutual responsibility.
As long as "we" is you and your crew, I will accept that, but as for many of the Regionals crews, aggressive attitudes towards other airspace users is all too common.
Literally, priority is demanded, I have even been told that "RPT" has right of way --- the number of times I have found that the attitude is: Anybody flying a smaller aircraft is a "weekend warrior" or a "bug smasher" and altogether an imbecile and a deadly threat to the traveling public.
CAR 166 seems to be regarded by too many Regional's pilots as "guidance" for the -8s, SAABs etc, but set in stone black and white strict liability law for anybody else.
That an ATPL on a day off might be flying a PA-28 seems to be beyond their ken.
Look back through some of the ATSB files, and the PCH report(by Dr. Rob Lee) on the subject ---- it confirms what you assume to be Dick's position.
.It does also say in the regulations that air commerce should be given priority by private operations.
A regulatory reference please, particularly for Class G airspace. In my opinion you are talking rubbish, but the alarming thing, from the risk management perspective, is that you probably believe it.
The airline crew don't know your capability and treat you as a risk.
I have never experienced this "Australian" attitude in NZ, US, Canada or the several African countries where I have flown aircraft of various sizes.
Tootle pip!!
Last edited by LeadSled; 21st May 2015 at 14:47.