Diesel V8 flys
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FADEC
Hi Jaba
Please post more info, if you have it to hand, on the FADAC soft and hard faults of which you speak.
I have heard of the battery back up issue, which can be fixed by using a PMA generator as with turbine fADEC.
D
Please post more info, if you have it to hand, on the FADAC soft and hard faults of which you speak.
I have heard of the battery back up issue, which can be fixed by using a PMA generator as with turbine fADEC.
D
It's pretty easy to design a really bad FADEC/engine controller and the best way to do this is give the job to a bunch of electronic engineers!
On the other hand, a robust, reliable system starts with a bunch of FMEAs and other dull paperwork exercises, driven by someone who understands both engines and electronics. Since this is relatively rare and especially unusual in the GA/Aerospace industry, its more common to find controllers that react badly to failure modes, of which interconnects are probably the most common factor.
On the other hand, a robust, reliable system starts with a bunch of FMEAs and other dull paperwork exercises, driven by someone who understands both engines and electronics. Since this is relatively rare and especially unusual in the GA/Aerospace industry, its more common to find controllers that react badly to failure modes, of which interconnects are probably the most common factor.
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Too hard to cover on prune, but it was not general the FADEC itself, or often not the sensors either, but a connector vibrating or suffering moisture or something but masquerading as a component problem, rendering the plane inoperative and always at a distance of 200nm from the capital city.
And not the same plane each time, across a small fleet.
And not the same plane each time, across a small fleet.
Sorry for using jargon, but I agree with you Jaba! 
I have a design concept for a "zero-connector, zero external power" engine management system to plug into a mag hole on a Lyc, but a good friend of mine has advised me it won't meet FAA's interpretation of robustness/redundancy, so I haven't really pursued it. That, and the fact that the market is small and shrinking and noone can make their mind up about what fuel to burn. It's a project highway to grief and nightmares
I have a design concept for a "zero-connector, zero external power" engine management system to plug into a mag hole on a Lyc, but a good friend of mine has advised me it won't meet FAA's interpretation of robustness/redundancy, so I haven't really pursued it. That, and the fact that the market is small and shrinking and noone can make their mind up about what fuel to burn. It's a project highway to grief and nightmares
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Connectors
I seem to remember quite a lot of installations having
To be renewed, as was not allowed to have a termination
In the system, or at the very least a max of one junction
(737's)
A lot of the problems concerning electrical systems seem
To be able to be put down to connectors/junctions causing
Internal failure upstream in the control module or alike.
As you Say Jab and Andy, remove this from the system and you
Probably remove 90% of the causes of faults and internal
Failures.
To be renewed, as was not allowed to have a termination
In the system, or at the very least a max of one junction
(737's)
A lot of the problems concerning electrical systems seem
To be able to be put down to connectors/junctions causing
Internal failure upstream in the control module or alike.
As you Say Jab and Andy, remove this from the system and you
Probably remove 90% of the causes of faults and internal
Failures.
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Does it run on Windows?
In terms of AVGAS engines, effort would be better spent on making a magneto that was more "solid state" with fewer moving parts, that still generated its own charge and used very little electronics to time the collapse of the field. Lets face it guys once your trained and familiar three levers ain't that hard to do.
As for this piston diesel that you guys keep raving about. It will never happen, with the advent of nanotechnology and advanced manufacturing the micro turbine will become the standard. Its bad enough swinging four and six pistons of the size and mass in an aircraft engine at a compression ratio of say 9.0 to 1 on average. Now try and do that at 22 to 1 and manage the harmonics/forces/vibration. Why bother when a micro turbine is smooth as silk, will be thermodynamically efficient, more reliable etc etc etc.
As for this piston diesel that you guys keep raving about. It will never happen, with the advent of nanotechnology and advanced manufacturing the micro turbine will become the standard. Its bad enough swinging four and six pistons of the size and mass in an aircraft engine at a compression ratio of say 9.0 to 1 on average. Now try and do that at 22 to 1 and manage the harmonics/forces/vibration. Why bother when a micro turbine is smooth as silk, will be thermodynamically efficient, more reliable etc etc etc.
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For anyone interested in harmonic problems read "No Short Days" The story of the development of the P&W 2800. Interesting non-integer harmonics etc.
After an excellent landing etc...
After an excellent landing etc...
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P&W having trouble at the moment with turbine blade between two models 34 & 114 both basically same engine but you can't use the latest blades in the 34 due harmonics.
If you service your mags at the correct intervals as require by the manufacture you rarely have problems with mags. You can't really get any think simpler that them. Why the need for fadec in ga piston engine. Kiss is the way to go. More you place in the more that can go wrong.
People removing glass screens and replace ing them with normal dial instruments due the cost of repairs.
If you service your mags at the correct intervals as require by the manufacture you rarely have problems with mags. You can't really get any think simpler that them. Why the need for fadec in ga piston engine. Kiss is the way to go. More you place in the more that can go wrong.
People removing glass screens and replace ing them with normal dial instruments due the cost of repairs.
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hmmmm
That must be why the automotive industry ditched points in the early eighties?
A magneto may well be reliable but is it durable given you have to strip it every five hundred hours? Only the intellectually deficient or lazy would argue that we as engineers of both the mathematical and physical disciplines shouldn't refine and improve our engineering. Simplicity sometimes cannot provide reliability or durability but refinement certainly can. Refinement also lowers labour costs. Compare the complexity of the human being as a machine as say compared to your ECU and consider their relative reliability.
Good engineering is reliable and **** engineering isn't bottom line
A magneto may well be reliable but is it durable given you have to strip it every five hundred hours? Only the intellectually deficient or lazy would argue that we as engineers of both the mathematical and physical disciplines shouldn't refine and improve our engineering. Simplicity sometimes cannot provide reliability or durability but refinement certainly can. Refinement also lowers labour costs. Compare the complexity of the human being as a machine as say compared to your ECU and consider their relative reliability.
Good engineering is reliable and **** engineering isn't bottom line
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Only the intellectually deficient or lazy would argue that we as engineers of both the mathematical and physical disciplines shouldn't refine and improve our engineering
Meanwhile back at the FADEC CI module manufactured by Bosch,
Jaba anymore info on the soft faults?
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The magneto is still used today in high prefromance race cars. The mag in an aircraft if you have not notice is completely stand alone. While ever the prop is moving it's doing its job. It light weight reliable with the correct servicing and in aviation terms it's cheap. Requires no out side power which also makes it light plus it preforms ignition in an aircraft engine extremely we'll. it's pretty hard to beat really.
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Eddie,
I thought I covered it in enough detail above.
However, if you want me to provide the fault codes in the FADEC uploads……. I would have to ask Andrew and I really can't see the point in asking as it is meaningless. If you own one of the affected aircraft chances are you know the best man in the country to deal with them. Discuss with him at your next opportunity. 
I thought I covered it in enough detail above.
Too hard to cover on prune, but it was not general the FADEC itself, or often not the sensors either, but a connector vibrating or suffering moisture or something but masquerading as a component problem, rendering the plane inoperative and always at a distance of 200nm from the capital city.
And not the same plane each time, across a small fleet.
And not the same plane each time, across a small fleet.
Magnetoes are used in top fuel dragsters for several reasons.
They give the spark energy that is required.
The engines only need fixed timing because they only have 1 operating rpm
They have a life span 1 second more than required, ie 5 seconds.
They give the spark energy that is required.
The engines only need fixed timing because they only have 1 operating rpm
They have a life span 1 second more than required, ie 5 seconds.
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So when was the last time you had problems with your mags. When was the last time you had your 500hourly service done on the and or o/h. The mag is compact light and extremely reliable if service correctly. Then it's main thing is the fact that it is NOT religant on anything other than the engine turning. And unless you have a gstio 520/550 access is relatively easy. This constant push towards everything new because you have to have it is really unnessary. For most of you that would be lucky to fly 100 hours a year are happy to pay the extra cost involved in supporting the new gear. I would think not.
Things in the motor industry decrease in cost due to the amount of production and atomization. We how ever can't use this. Our aircraft and engines are all hand assembled and as such they can't compete.
Is it really required we change for change stake. And as for a top fuel car useing one rpm yeh sort of but the point is the energy that the mag makes can't be done via electronics for the same weight. And I guess your aircraft while in cruse your not operating a set rpm are you.
Nothing in aviation ever decreases in price. With expection to some after market gear PMA that sell at a reduce cost to original manufactures.
Things in the motor industry decrease in cost due to the amount of production and atomization. We how ever can't use this. Our aircraft and engines are all hand assembled and as such they can't compete.
Is it really required we change for change stake. And as for a top fuel car useing one rpm yeh sort of but the point is the energy that the mag makes can't be done via electronics for the same weight. And I guess your aircraft while in cruse your not operating a set rpm are you.
Nothing in aviation ever decreases in price. With expection to some after market gear PMA that sell at a reduce cost to original manufactures.
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This constant push towards everything new because you have to have it is really unnessary
How many Magneto systems go in excess of 1000 hrs without needing any servicing?
opps, my rotax modern electronic ignition systems have... .