Nordic ForumIt smells a bit of snow and ice and big hairy vikings chasing lusty maidens around after lots of mjød and loud partying. Forum languages are Svenska, Dansk, Norsk & English.
Another one bites the dust. For every resignation they get stronger
That makes no sense, what so ever, what you just wrote... Are you implying that by not resigning and therefor accepting the sub-industry stadard Ts and Cs you are somehow making them (DY) weaker
OK, that would then make some sort of sense even though I would not blame a man who resigns a permanent contract for a better one, of weakening the union, I would in that case blame the guy that comes after him....
Don't blame the guy who comes after him. . . we all need to eat blame the Union who, despite having the support of their members & numerous other airlines in the region, allowed themselves to be bullied into accepting a "compromise" that may not help their members nor the contractors, possibly simply because they didn't do their "homework" before tackling NAS & the Boss (who they possibly forgot was a Barrister in a previous life) When Unions are so unprofessional/poorly prepared it makes it Oh so easy for companies to walk all over their members. Seen it before with BALPA (not IALPA however) in Ryanair, now I have observed it (albeit from the sidelines, some would say on the "wrong" side) in NAS. P*ss poor planning = P*ss poor performance, it's a walk in the park for most management ,courtesy of the lack of credible opposition. Backing down doesn't enhance ones credibility much either.
Ulmer visst fortsatt blant pilotene. I nettavisene rapporteres det idag om at NPF tar DY til sak Informasjonssjefen deres (DYs) sier at det er best for alle parter at de blir enige på kammerset (re utenfor rettsapparatet). Vet ikke hvordan det høres ut for andre, men i mine ører er det ikke akkurat en invitasjon til en hyggelig prat over en kopp kaffe...
Så får vi se om kabinforeningen i Norwegian har baller. De krever riktignok kun samme "policyerklæring om stillingsgaranti" som pilotene. Den er i seg selv ikke mye verdt, men ledelsen vil altså ikke gi dem dette.
Agreed, but the thing I don't understand about F*cking Unions (and we really suffered in Ryanair courtesy of the Irish & UK pilots Union's - IALPA & BALPA's - inability to act together) is why these highly paid "activists " (Ha Bloody Ha) couldn't coordinate something between them in the Springtime & really nail this. As Lufthansa proved (& BA) CC are more than enough, so why the **** couldn't the pilots & CC Unions get their act "together" 6 mths ago ? to ALL of our benefit
I say this as a Contractor, who is now being implored by the Union to sign up & put my name down for legal action to demand permanent employment from NAS (but no NAS employment & no employment in Norway = what ? zero protection ? ) who they previously thought was the "bad guy", but, in fact, I want the same as everyone else.
So, why the hell they (pilot & CC union ) couldn't coordinate & do something decisive 6 mths ago, when they had all the support of NAS pilots ( & CC?) & indeed most pilots in Scandinavia I am told.
Yeah yeah, I am only a stupid contractor, so why don't I get my name in Court fighting the battle that you managed to lose 6mths ago Jeezuz guys, is that the best we can expect from a Union ?
Last edited by captplaystation; 17th Sep 2012 at 19:46.
Captplaystation, the strike would not have been legal. Kjos is a very good lawyer and the lawsuits following the illegal strikes would have been nasty.
He found a good way around it and few options remained, alot of people are accepting the below crap T&C so the carouselle towards the bottom is still going strong.
The people on the permanent contracts are looking out for themselves, the contractors in their turn are blaming them and the union to justify themselves.
A strong union is not a given right, it's the opposite, it is what YOU make it. Arguing and blaming like this only serves one man, and one wallet.
Divide et impara. I'm going back to uni next autumn... so I can fly for peanuts, as a passanger
I say this as a Contractor, who is now being implored by the Union to sign up & put my name down for legal action to demand permanent employment from NAS (but no NAS employment & no employment in Norway = what ? zero protection ? ) who they previously thought was the "bad guy", but, in fact, I want the same as everyone else.
So you want to reap all the benefits of an employment with DY without putting anything on the line yourself? This sort of egocentric selfishness is how this industry got into a s**thole in the first place.
Captplaystation, the strike would not have been legal. Kjos is a very good lawyer and the lawsuits following the illegal strikes would have been nasty.
Can you guys on the inside tell me why this wouldn't have been legal? I still haven't seen any concise information regarding the process from NPF. Is it illegal to strike for the benefit of a third party? That legal standing should be covered if only a few contractors were part of NPF. The law states nothing about a unions lack of right to represent a collegial minority.
Quote:
So you want to reap all the benefits of an employment with DY without putting anything on the line yourself? This sort of egocentric selfishness is how this industry got into a s**thole in the first place.
I like the contracting tendency as little as anyone else. In fact I see it as a huge threat to my future in this business, and I'm poised to be here the next thirty years. Don't go for each others throats. Understand that contractors have no (!) legal protection. None. To ask them to stick their neck out is something completely different than asking regular employees. This is a union fight and a fight that has to come from directly employed pilots and NPF.
It would have been the only time it by labor dispute law of the country could have been legal. The collective agreement had expired, negotiations had started, and failed. Golden window of opportunity. All that remained was to inform the official negotiator, Riksmegleren, that they were proceeding with next step, a conflict. Wait 14 days and set park brakes.
They talked the talk, but when it came time to do the walk, they backed down, repeatedly. Every one saw that this for what it was; the last chance for course change and a better future. And they were not alone, they would have been backed all the way necessary: http://flyger.no/arkiv/filer/Pressemelding%20fra%20Norsk%20Flygerforbund.pdf
Sure Kjos made noise, and could have disputed the unions right to make various claims. Scope clauses are part of labour contracts of other unions. Won the hard way at some time in the past.
But right and wrong is also a result of power. Stand your ground and do not back down. Once a new agreement is signed and the planes are moving again no one will argue about legalities anymore. Threats would have lost theire value once the planes came to a standstill and share prises started moving instead.
Union leaders with stock options in own company?
But then again, I might be misinformed. If so please explain?
Status last may was full suport. That window they closed themselves:
Brussels, 8 May 2012 Captain Aleksander Wasland Captain Sami Simonen President, Norsk Flygerforbund President, Finnish Pilots’ Association
aleksander.wasland@flyger.no sami.simonen@fpapilots.fi Captain Lars Björking Captain Hafsteinn Pálsson President, Danish ALPA President, Icelandic Pilots’ Association
lars@dpf.info hap@fia.is Captain Gunnar Mandahl Captain Rauno Menning President, Svensk Pilotförening President, Estonian ALPA
gunnar.mandahl@swealpa.se raunomenning@gmail.com Re : ECA Support to Nordic Pilot Associations’ joint statement against the exploitation of airline workers.
Dear Presidents,
The European Cockpit Association represents over 38.650 pilots in 38 European Countries including the pilots from your countries, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Estonia, Finland and Iceland. ECA welcomes the joint statement your 6 Associations have released on the condemnation of airlines’ pushing for workers’ exploitation through the use of ‘inventive’ contractual arrangements.
ECA and its Members are very concerned by the turn the airline industry is taking in Europe, by outsourcing pilots’ services through individual contracts which deny them fundamental labour rights, promote social dumping and unfair competition, and can compromise flight safety levels for passengers.
As accurately described in your analysis, one of the biggest threats posed by this process is the ‘externalisation’ of the Airlines’ own responsibility to the individual pilot. The precariousness of such individual contracts, together with the pressure put on pilots by the airline to minimise operational costs, compromises the pilots’ effective ability to take appropriate decisions solely based on safety concerns.
Yes seems like a battle of doom here, I do understand the concern fully.
But I heard 2015 / 2016 on the NEO, but also heard various rumours, of NAS plans, but I would like to know maybe somebody working in the company would know?
blame the Union who, despite having the support of their members & numerous other airlines in the region, allowed themselves to be bullied into accepting a "compromise" that may not help their members nor the contractors, possibly simply because they didn't do their "homework" before tackling NAS & the Boss (who they possibly forgot was a Barrister in a previous life)
